Lately I've been wondering about opinions regarding this, Some people consider becoming a vampire and perking into Necromage is cheating, others don't.

Note that I play on PS3 my POV comes from a completely non RP perspective. As far as I'm concerned if the game "let's" you do it without any intentional manipulation of code, or the use of mods, or entering a series of button presses to spawn a tank (Vice City) then I think it's fair game. So I put together a short list of widely known "things" that still exist after 1.9 and these are all based on the assumption that you have maxed out enchanting and perked up to extra effect, obtained the Aetherium Crown with a combination of the lover stone and the mage stone to gain the +35% static leveling speed.

Enchanting - the Dark Brotherhood questline and Azura's star are the ultimate compliment to leveling enchanting. Obtain the star of azura and a weapon w/ soul trap, kill humanoids and recharge after every kill (since the xp is dependent on the size of the soul used to recharge and not the amount that is recharged) this can quickly level enchanting in the background

100 Enchanting w/ Extra Effect will allow you to put 25% cast reduction for 2 schools of magic on 4 pieces of gear, i.e. free casts for 2 schools (destruction & restoration) for example

Illusion - casting muffle repeatedly to speed boost to 100 in appx >1hr

Alteration - using oakflesh to boost to 50, buy waterbreathing spell then stand in ankle-height water and repeatedly casting waterbreathing to get to 100

Conjuration - Dark Brotherhood completion: repeatedly cast soul trap on prisioner to get to 100 very quickly

Destruction & Restoration - Dark Brotherhood completion: frostbite in one hand, healing hands in the other, target your prisoner, rubberband the controller buttons and walking away for a few hours, easy max.

That's an example of how easily one can max out the wisdom path and there are ways to speed boost almost every other skill in the game and get to 81 fairly quickly.

My question is where do you draw the line at what is cheating? I'm assuming RPers would say if it's not something considered "normal" for your character to do in a certain situation then it's cheating, i.e: casting muffle if you're not trying to sneak past enemies, for example.

Once I work out all the details I plan to do a 1.9 speed run to 81 just for the sake of testing the limits of how fast it can be done.

Your thoughts?

Anything you take advantage of that was not otherwise intended game play is basically cheating, but as this is a single player game, it is up to the individual to decide what they consider to be cheating.

Sneak + Archery

cheating for me is using glitches to gain skills, throwing muffle constantly to level illuion isn't by itself cheating imo. However if you find a way to keep doing something that clearly shouldn't be possible now that is cheating.

This is probably the best definition.

Cheat codes and exploits aren't really the same thing, OP, as one is intended by the Developer and the other is not.

are those tacos filling your belly, or chingaderas?

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3rx9hPpJQ1qigxklo1_500.jpg

It all comes down to asking yourself, if you "feel dirty." If you need a shower after playing, then it would be safe to say that you are cheating.

I don't by the whole "You can't cheat in a single player game" nonsense. I mean you can cheat at playing Solitaire or look up a puzzle answer in the back of the book.

Cheating is winning by using unfair undeserved adavntages.

I agree with you 100% and that's why I mentioned I don't RP at all, as far as I'm concerned I just figured out how to do something faster within the confines of the game, it's not like using the speech cheat from pre 1.9

but if someone figures out a way to do it without the afformentioned subjugation, do they not deserve to reap the benfits from it? more of a philosophical question but it still remains...

Hell...

I don't feel justified in improving a weapon past Legendary. I just stop when it gets to that point. I am not totally convinced the developers meant for you to be able to keep going and not capped the weapon once you reached Legendary status.

I was, for the longest time, under the impression that they did cap then. But then, I typically avoid exploits like the plague and only learned about this madness after signing up here.

but the ranges of legendary improvement can be drastically increased by combining enchanting and alchemy potions to the smithing skill, is it cheating if one chooses to do that? even though it's perfectly allowed by the developers

I can't agree with this completely. Re-setting skills in 'in-game' now, but how on earth do you explain in a role-play your skills dropping to 15? You can't. It is yet another game design that breaks role-playing. Unfortunately Skyrim is full of these, particularly in faction quest-line choices.

good responses btw, keep em coming, i really am interested in people's points of view.

I honestly believe it is an oversight to allow improvement past Legendary. Otherwise, there would be labels for them. I personally cap all of my equipment once it hits Legendary. I feel dirty if I keep going.

you have one of the best sigs i've ever seen, i played WoW for just over 4 years and i actually quit because i couldn't stand the fact that my success/failure hinged on the dependency on other people...but it does get a little lonely.

once again i agree with you completely, it is a huge grey area. but now i pose the question: would you feel "dirty" if there were more classifications beyond legendary?

That's just being smart.

Absolutely not. At least then we would know the intent of the developers. It really makes no since to be able to that with gear and not with magic. Destruction is increased only by Alchemy and even, then Alchemy and Enchanting are capped.

Unless of course you forego a glitch using a fortify restoration potion. Which is a blatant cheat.

The fortify intelligence potion loop in Morrowind was not actual cheating as it was predicted before the game was released and feature was known by developers.

The 100% cameleon suit in Oblivion was not cheat as 100% cameleon is easy to get combining potions and enchantment.

Combining all three crafting skills, with sneak and the db gloves is not cheat as the feedback between crafting skills had to be known.

On the other hand leveling alchemy with giant toes or salmon roe is probably cheats as at least salmon roe has bugged values, yes its an very minor exploit who main effect is to let you have plenty of money early and level alchemy faster.

Salmon Roe has bugged values?

Real issue is not legendary++ but legendary++ and 4*40% damage enchants. In Oblivion skill enchants was pretty pointless unless the skill was low.

AS most of the effect like potion strength or weapon damage come from perks in Skyrim they switched this to boosting effect instead of skill. They must have thought a bit about it as weapon does +40% while other does +25%, they probably did not think players would min-max this as in combat the +damage enchants are the best thing you can have. Potions work just ass well for elemental protection who is very nice then facing dragons and some mages.

cheat codes are usually intended by the developers, exploits usually are not.

Well, I consider them as exploiting.

I don't think for a moment that the developers intended for people to use things like fortify blacksmithing enchantments etc when you are already a master of such skills. I see their particular intent as achieving something better than passable with a skill you don't normally use. Of course addressing that is not always the best use of a developer's time.