You don't know what will actually be governing carry weight, let alone if it'll be anything as circuitous as going through the two-handed/one-handed skills. If I had to guess, I'd say it's probably governed by 1-5 leveled perks (Carry 10kg more, 20 kg, etc).

I don't see them... other than personality governing the initial disposition toward you. A few uses of Speechcraft, and Personality was completely pointless.

You can have all of the strength-based skills contribute a percentage of their level to weapon damage with all weapons. I'll let adoring mudcrab do all the fancy x+y stuff.

No he doesn't Roland. He's making a point that attributes are not necessary, even ignoring perks.

Its not replacing, its cutting it out. There is no replacing that variety. I dont need to read a wiki page to know math.


Yet all that fancy X-Y stuff, which isn't even relevant since he doesnt know what strength did in the first place, is just more spreadsheety numerical redundancy. Something everybody opposed to attributes is against.

You must be on a mobile or something, then Frodoness.

Nah, just not really interested in Yet Another Attribute Thread, so I'm sparing myself the trouble of reading and writing paragraphs.

Ah, I kind of guessed that they used that before. =)

Personally, I'm fairly sure they are actually using this system, for a number of reasons.
1. It is the only solution I can think of. Perks are to few to adequately define the character (50 perks max confirmed).
2. The PR talk of "don't need intelligence to determine amount of magic" heard from several different interviews.
3. This would give a system similar to Oblivion without "bothering" the player with the attributes.

But, I guess we have to wait and see to be sure.

.....you saw the title a mile away >_>......why post >_>

Firstly.
Okey, no offence intended, but every single post you have made that is directed towards me indicates that you do not understand what I am saying. English is not my native language, so if I have been unclear in any way I am sorry, please tell me where and I will try my best to explain better.

Secondly.
I am a mathematician, I love spread sheets and numbers. =)
I know EXACTLY what strength did and I am in NO WAY opposed to attributes. Quite the opposite! I love complex system that allows for customization and requires the player to actually do math to build their character (something Oblivion certainly did not require).

All I am saying is that mathematically, the new system is not that much different. It may even allow for better customization than in Oblivion I believe. However, the role playing aspect of attributes are lost and that is something that cannot be recovered in the new system.

Why even bother with that? That just adds an extra layer of complexity... Combat-style skill and specialization perks are and should be the only things that affect weapon damage. the skill not only represents expertise in that combat style, but also the body's conditioning to handle it (Eg: Strength, Agility, and Speed). "Stronger" races (Nord, Redguard, Orc) would have a starting skill bonus to combat-style skills to represent their greater strength

And encumbrance, move speed, and jump height weren't governed solely by the attributes, they also required constants:
Encumberance was STR x5. At level 1 for most races, that would have been 40x5=200. Now, Skyrim has a base encumberance of 200, with races that were generally percieved as "Weaker" having that encumbrance reduced to as low as 150, and "Stronger" having the base encumbrance increased to as much as 300. General perks and Feather spell effects can be used to increase that number, while Burden spell effects and poisons can drop that number. Skill-drain poisons might finally be useful.

There's a similar constant for speed and jump height... Races that were previously "slow" (discounting height's effect on movement speed) would have a lower starting speed that can be increased by perks or "Haste" spell effects. Similar thing for jump height.

I'm not seeing the problem here...

Yet it cant, unless there are 100 perks based around strength and everything strength did, then it cant.

But, strength only did 2 things!
Encumberance (Which should take no more than 4 perks that give ~+100 each.), and damage: which shouldn't be covered by perks at all. The weapon-style skills are now broad enough not to require a general damage boost.

What?

The skill level is a number between 1 and 100, just as strength is.

In fact, if you add the skill level of every skill that would logically depend on strength, you get a number from 3 to 300 (assuming one handed, two handed and smithing relies on strength).

How can this not determine encumbrance and melee damage with greater variation than strength, that is a number between 1 and 100?

Its about common sense, a stronger person will hit harder than a weaker person. A perkier person will do the same? No. Fact is:

Attributes,skills and perks>just perks and skill.


Becasue thats not how it works.

You are working under the fallacy that there is only one way a person can be physically "Strong"... I prefer the term "Conditioning"

Perks, if anything represent actual expertise in that area, while skill is more like the conditioning to use it.

Some people are built to bear heavy loads, but lack the body mechanics to hit hard. Others can hit hard with one hand, but are too uncoordinated to hit hard a weapon held in both hands (or vice versa). Others have strong limbs capable of dealing punishing blows, but lack the structure to support heavy loads. I know I can lift very heavy loads, but hit like an Airzooka.

However, Skill represents physical conditioning to accomplish the task as much or more than it does raw expertise. And the discrepancy between high skill in one of the two combat styles and low skill in the other can be excused as loss due to inefficiency of using the style.

Someone who has high skill in both One and Two-handed combat can be assumed to be physically stronger than someone with low skill in either, but his encumbrance might be the same because he's conditioned his strength in his arms so he can hit harder, not his back and legs, to carry more junk.

Likewise, someone may have low weapon skills, but have a great encumberance... he can be assumed to have a strong back, but weaker arms.

Skill, from a gameplay stance, represents conditioning as much as it does expertise. Skyrim's more about the end-result when it comes to skills, perks, and attributes, not the little things that add up. You can fill in the blanks yourself.

Mathematically, they used to have Weapon Skill = X, and Attribute = Y. Now we have P=Perk Bonuses

Damage = X + Y. That calculation is constant between Oblivion and Skyrim, as well as Skyrim acquiring the formula:
Damage = S+P

Except, now, Weapon Style = S
S=X+Y-P, where P = Damage - S.

It all ends up being a very, very convoluted way of saying "You can decide how much of your character's demonstrated damage-dealing ability comes from physical fitness, and how much comes from weapon expertise. We don't really care, because you're still hitting just as hard either way"

I believe someone has in their sig, there's a perk for that one. :spotted owl: merrr.

Wow is it just me or are people getting realy cranky?

Probably stamina and encumbrance. Maybe addional perks.



Confirmed stamina.



Probably stamina and encumbrance.



Equipped items and perks.



Porbably race.



The ranged weapon
And probably the skill level in Archery and addiinal perks.



You. Hitting and dodging are determined by your pc skills to press attack or block at the right moment.



Probably stamina. Maybe addinonal perks.

I really hope they do away with Carry Weight alltogether, because it's always been such a giant FU for mages, like they just don't deserve to carry all their loot home because they killed the enemies with spells...

Um carry weight is not confirmed to be stamina based... very little of anything is confirmed to be anything actualy...

race
perks
skills
health
stamina
mana

take your pick

if the question is how will encumberence work it will probably revolve around fatigue

-Sprint speed, perks, stamina...

-Weapon skill

-probably perks

-probably perks (but this was always about acrobatics skill rather than attributes anyway)

-perks (attributes hardly did anything in this regard really...)

-Your health, magicka and stamina of course

-Marksmanship skill

-How well you can jump away from enemy blows yourself...

-Perks probably, or the enemy's skill...

I envision player speed and jump height to be fixed. Sad and definetely a step backwards but I believe its to better artificially create a feeling of a large world.
By limiting the speed at which you can cross it and putting in barriers you cant ever jump.
I really hope this is not the case, but this is what I think.

Ranged weapon damage should be the ranged skill.

For all of the rest of them I think your best answer is that its either not in the game or 'there will be a perk for that' <- Boy do I now dislike that term, but there you go.

I don't think movement speed and jump height will be completely static. In the past games, they've always seemed to understand the desirability of higher movement speeds/better jumping ability, and they're turning the Acrobatics and Athletics skills into perks instead. According to the interview, it seemed they liked Acrobatics and Athletics, but found the traditional advancement method for the skills unacceptably boring: Everyone ran, so you couldn't really choose to make your character "Specialize" in running without taking it as a Major skill, which then caused the game to see your increased movement speed as a cue to send you against stronger enemies.

Same with acrobatics. So, by making movement speed and jump height perks, they allow you to directly choose how much you want to emphasize and improve your character's mobility.