Sure, I'm hypocritical. I can accept that. The problem is that I don't really care. I don't like Oblivion, I don't like the fans it brought. I've explained my reasoning many times. Made huge walls of text just as you did. So excuse me for not offering anymore reasoning because my beliefs regarding Oblivion have been stated over and over again. So I simply don't care to continue a senseless debate in which no side will ever win. I like Morrowind and Fallout New Vegas. I believe Oblivion and Fallout 3 are fun games but not the same kind of fun as the other two. I am an elitist PC gamer. I'll leave it it that.

And I'm gonna laugh my ass off when all of these Oblivion fans who whine about elitism act elitist toward the new fans brought by Skryim.

Perfectly worded. AGREED.

I dislike blue Eye of Night.

I remember first playing Oblivion, being a Khajiit, and using this Power; I found it useful, so I used it more and more often, until I just started playing the game with Eye of Night always on.

Everything was always bright blue, always. I eventually started to hate it.

Then I got Morrowind, and was amazed at how easy to look at the Green Screen Brightening Eye of Night was.

Also, I dislike how some members of the community are frigid to its newer members.

But I suppose that with an influx of idiocy, I can understand why.

I have to say, this is rediculous. Morrowind always wins the polls, so can we let it die? Please?

Vintage idiocy is no better than incoming idiocy.

Xenophobic attitudes do exist. However Seti, you're a bit agressive lately. Why?

I've spent a lot of time in the Fallout forums since the build up to Fallout 3 and a tiny amount of time on the ES forums since then...


But I'd assume that his increase in hostility, and any general increase there might be, is directly related to an increase in Oblivion criticism popping up as Skyrim nears.

People who didn't like certain aspects of Oblivion want to ensure that those aspects are excised going into Skyrim.

People who like the aspects want to ensure those aspects remain present.

The natural result is hostility between the two groups, we're only human

From all of that, I'd argue that you're a fan of Morrowind rather than a fan of the overall series. Daggerfall and Arena both had generic fantasy environments, generic fantasy factions, generic fantasy characters and history, and "magical teleporting" as the exclusive means of travel. Something I think most people don't really understand is that Morrowind, and not Oblivion, is the departure from the series on all of those points. That's still fine and all, but... well, it seems odd to get mad at the "new" fans of the series for liking elements that every game in the series except the one you enjoy have in common. Not saying it's necessarily you doing that, but that's still pretty common. Case in point being, as an example, Sir-Stabs-Alot, who specifically complains about the fans that Oblivion brought in while not realizing any of what I just said.

I'm fine with people liking or disliking things about the games in the series, and liking or disliking particular entries in the series. I just find it ridiculous when people complain about Oblivion's fans on the grounds that (in a lot of ways) they like things that were standard for the series before Morrowind came out.

EDIT: I guess what I'm saying is... well, people use the excuse that Morrowind fans act that way toward Oblivion fans because that's what people will always do when a new game comes out and that they're just upset that the series' direction was changed to appeal to those people, but... well, fans of the older titles who don't like Morrowind (right here, hi) have far more reason to act this way given what Morrowind did with the series, and yet we still (in blunt terms) don't treat Morrowind fans like slopsvcking moron trash. It's not rare to find an older fan who talks about the older entries in the series in far nicer terms than the Morrowind or Oblivion, but it is pretty rare to find those older fans outright insulting the intelligence and competency of Morrowind's fans as what's apparently little more than an attempt to stroke their own ego.

This.

Although I think the idea of flying enemies is great. cliff racers were just implemented poorly.

I still remember my character getting in a fight in Ald'ruhn with the redoran guards. I was fully leveled and cound have handled them myself (probably) but a cliffracer swooped in just in time to attack me also, and then while the guards (following their AI) attacked the cliffracer I ran away to the Silt Strider.

lack of spells.
poor animations.
lack of magic weapons/armor/cloths.
lack of nice robe/armor/cloth designs.
lack of action/blood/epic battles.
leveling system svcks.
stealth svcks.
guards svck (STOP RIGHT THERE YOU CRIMINAL SCUM)
archery svcked.


the game just needs some of the elements other RPG's have already tried and found to be successful.

Screw it, not worth my time.

A solid, indisputable point...that will be summarily ignored by the frothing masses.

Things I hate about TES, a series I love:

* Retconning lore

* Psychic guards

* Why can't I neatly arrange my books on this shelf?

* Ugly NPC's - these people should be manually created, not randomly generated.

* Mountains that are only passable via precarious mountain climbing hopping. Where's my scenic mountain pass?

* Wild animals that are more formidable than hellish demi-gods.

* Some of the fans.

the obivious: Level scaling, [censored] animations, ugly women and boring landscape(in oblivion), lack of shoulder and clothing slots

some lesser stuff: Bad stealth mechanics, lacking combat, lacking dialogue system

Clunky combat :\

The reason that Fast Travel impacts the game regardless of it being optional...is that the game was designed with the assumption that people would just use it for long trips. This means when the designers put together quests they don't consider the travel time incurred when you have to go back and forth between two locations because to them it is instantaneous.

It also has an impact because if people tend to fast travel from city to city all the time it is more logical to locate most of the dungeons close to cities. Of course there are still things to look at far divorced from any city...but it tends to cluster stuff closer to cities.

I would like them to make it truly optional, in that the game is developed as though there were no such thing as Fast Travel and then shortly before it ships Fast Travel were tossed in and able to be toggled on or off.

That way while Fast Travel would be an option those who chose not to use it wouldn't be punished by a plethora of fetch this fetch that missions that have you travelling clear across the world.

It's actually not just that. Even if a game was designed to completely ignore the inclusion of an optional feature, that feature still has an impact on the game. Why? Because everything (and I do mean everything) that a game includes, right down to minor things like logo treatments and options menus, has an impact on the overall experience of that game and on the tone and feel that this experience provides. Mandatory features are obviously going to have a stronger impact than optional ones in just about all cases - having attacks that visibly hit a target flawlessly still count as misses is a pretty solid example - but the claim that optional features have no impact on the game simply because they're optional just isn't true. It's rare that they're significantly harmful to the experience, but they can still easily harm the experience.

I don't hate anything, but I gravely dislike how the Bosmers look in Morrowind.

This.

Cliff racers.
... Then I modded the half of them out and reduced the aggro range of the rest.

Storylines

How Tausig?

Not the themes, they just seemed a little linear.

I forget who precisely made the point, I'll assume it was Seti, but I guess the point is correct.

I'm a fan of Morrowind more than I'm a fan of The Elder Scrolls series.

I've never felt so utterly out of it as I did when first stepping about Seyda Neen and trying to explore the world. I was delighted as they story developed and I encountered different societies and settlements and lore and so on and so forth. I guess it's all quite closely related to the Drow of D&D, but I along with a substantial proportion of humanity, have no idea what the **** the Drow are.

From what I've heard about the other games they had even more expansive environments and more developed stories.

I guess my real lament with Oblivion is just that it seemed to be toned down considerably from where Morrowind was. I'm going to try to avoid inserting my own opinion now and deal with facts.



Where going into the wrong dungeon in MW meant getting one hit killed every time...you could go neigh anywhere in Oblivion fearlessly.

Where joining a given Guild/Clan/House meant being exiled (with few exceptions) from the others....you could be Master of every last one.

Where you could get thoroughly lost and stuck in the middle of nowhere looking for some way to get yourself back to the nearest town, unless you had a Scroll of Intervention or Mark/Recall.....you could always just run and pull out your map to Fast Travel.

As part of that, in one you had to figure out how to travel from place to place using boats/striders/Mage's Guilds/Scrolls....in Oblivion you only and always pulled out your map and clicked on the icon.

In one you could search for locations and get directions from NPCs, in the other you followed the arrow straight to the "long lost tome of forgotten knowledge" that you conveinently (can't spell that) knew the exact location of.

In one you could get lucky and find an incredible weapon early on or get unlucky and get boned by a demon from hell early on, in the other any otherwise "legendary" weapon you found at an early level was downgraded to match your status and any enemy you met early on was likewise weakened.

Another aspect of that was that in one you could return to more peaceful areas and wreak havoc with your levelled up character, in the other you could face raiders clad in the skin of Dremora.

Yet another aspect of that was that it effectively reversed the rarity of items near the end of the game. If you get to level 27 and decide you want a Fur outfit good luck. You can run into Mithril and Ebony and Daedric everywhere you turn, but Leather and Fur cease to exist.


So essentially the reasons I like Morrowind over Oblivion are:
Creation of All Knowing Arrow
Horrid Implementation of Leveling Everything
Elimination of Morrowind's well thought out Traveling system in favor of Fast Travel from and to Anywhere

Pure Opinions again below

If these conditions had not existed I probably would have been much less bothered by the familiarity of the environment. As it was it was only on the odd occasion where I found myself feeling as though I was in the same universe I ventured around in in Morrowind. Not going into Hell and fighting my way to the top of Sauron's Tower will help for next year.

I don't know what percentage of my disconnect from Morrowind to Oblivion was due to the transition from the environment of Morrowind to Cyrodil and what percentage of that disconnect was due to the introduction of these elements......but I hope to find a new less familiar environment in Skyrim...and hopefully they'll have lit onto the idea of not leading gamers by the hand too much.

With a burning passion that I cannot ignore, I despise the Bosmer.