I'm sorry, but I have to say that times changed. I mean, something like Delsene's Club would be an outrage nowadays. Look at the sixual themes, in other places aswell.

A statement like that would normally seem like the biggest cop out ever, but just look at Morrowind. It is far more mature than Oblivion. No doubt.

I mean, there was a necrophilia joke in Oblivion... but it wasn't much...

I'm going to post this here too:

Honestly, I don't really see how any one of them could be any more mature than another. Neither of them have any combat gore. Oblivion's got more grotesque corpses. Both of them sometimes have some gritty dialog. Other than that, they've never been that "mature." You fight and kill stuff and sometimes there's some out of the ordinary things that happen that might be considered mature (like some of the Dark Brotherhood quests). But overall, T really does fit the games.

As for me, I'd like to see them stop giving a crap about T or M rating. GTA 4 was rated M (obviously) and was the best selling media in 24 hours ever. I'd like to see TES V not only have an M rating, but take ADVANTAGE of that rating. There's pretty much nothing that an M rated game can't do besides show six (you can have nudity in an M game, but erotic presentation will almost always earn an AO rating), so I'd really like to see many more "mature" themes in TES V. Language (tastefully used), some gore (clearly less than Fallout 3 though, which went overboard, although in a hilarious way), and other such things.

Are you talking about that brothel in morrowind because they had some clothes on,and I agree that times have changed because ratings nowadays are terrible because I can name several 16s games that should be rated 12s and back in the 1990s they would have been and I know lots of 9 year olds who play 16s games and 1 or 2 18s games maybe 3 or 4.

Please, enlighten me. What do you not like about Oblivion?

I've posted what I dislike about Morrowind plenty of times by those of you who say that I'm a Morrowind fan boy.


I compeltely agree. This is what I'm complaining about. I just don't feel Morrowind TRIED to be T, like Oblivion did. May be just me, though. Whatever. A pretty redundant argument.

The reason they aim for a teen rating is not because they cater their games to 13 year-olds.

They just think an M rating will hurt sales, even though it really doesn't. It's all the result of anxiety, in my opinion.

Freaking out over something that hasn't even happened and taking nervous measures to prevent it.

Hopefully, now that they've seen that they can have good sales with an M-rated game, hopefully they won't tiptoe around mature issues. Actually, considering the fact that the most vulgar character in Oblivion was that "damn orc bookseller" and his cheesy dialogue where he says damn over and over, then, comparing it to Fallout 3's language, I'd say Bethesda has FINALLY grown their pubas back.

*sigh* Really?

-Level/artifact scaling
-Main quest should have been more political
-Fewer skills/item types
-More care should have been taken with crafting faces
-Lack of variety in voice actors
-Quest arrow/fast travel should have been toggleable

I've mentioned all of these many times here. I have also stated, flatly, that I prefer Morrowind as a game. The essential difference between you and me, though, is that I don't let these issues ruin Oblivion for me. They are things that I would like to see fixed in the next game, but I still enjoy Oblivion greatly in spite of them. And if that makes me a biased really devoted fan, then I don't think I could ever argue my position in a way that you wouldn't attack.

EDIT: @Hamsmagoo-- Bear in mind that Oblivion released only a year after the Hot Coffee controversy broke. Politicians were pushing for a ban on graphic content in video games and for a while it looked like they were going to be successful, Rockstar was being sued left and right, it was a difficult time for the industry in general.

That M rating sure didn't stop me from getting Oblivion or Fallout 3. How many little kids and teenagers play GTA, Call of Duty, and Halo(all of which I am assuming are rated M)? Bethesda's worrying over nothing, if you ask me.

I'm not even going to comment. I'll just start another argument... :glare:

But yeah. Bethesda are afraid or nothing. It happens all the time. Not jut Bethesda. It's just like the irrational fear of multiple CD's on consoles.

They were worried, if you read some of the things they posted on their website while they were developing Oblivion, you could see how worried they were. Now, not so much anymore, I believe.

I responded to you up in my post to Hircine, hamsmagoo, just in case you missed it

I did miss it. Thanks for enlightening me.

Whatever worried them back then, I'm glad to see they're getting a little bit more risky. A lot of it is also the FCC and ESRB and all these PC groups in this country lobbying and threatening, mainly because they're insecure about their own sixuality.

I tell you, if it weren't for insecure politicians with tiny wieners, it would be legal to walk around naked.

That is irrational(not the fear, the multiple CDs). PS3s have blu-ray. We don't need multiple CDs.

Consoles haven't used CD's since Playstation one, I think.

Oh right, they're DVDs now, or blu-ray in the PS3's case. Would Microsoft likely use blu-ray with their next Xbox?

LOL! :thumbsup:

PlayStation 2 did have some titles (mostly early ones) that were still on CD-ROM. They were intentionally colored blue (ironically), so you could tell them apart from a PS1 disc (black) and a PS2 DVD (standard silver). And (also, ironically) the PC game industry was slow to adopt DVD as a format. Mainly because a PC game would be compressed to disc, then uncompressed during the install to the HDD. After the initial install, the CD was only needed as a key. It wasn't until video cards were capable of displaying hi-res textures that couldn't even be compressed on a CD without including a dozen discs did the PC gaming industry make the move.

And then there was our much-beloved but ill-fated Dreamcast. It's drive was called a "GD-ROM," but it was little more than a CD-ROM with a slightly different format that allowed for a little more space on a CD (up to 1GB). Of course, that didn't last too long ....

Yes we do. We've been over this many times. Let's not bring this debate here...

I liked how in shivering isles there was CHEESE for everyone! I would love to see more cheese in TES 5.

Hi all I'm new here and I just wanted to say I'm glad I found your site cause I was dying to get all this stuff off my chest ever since I hear the "rumors" for the new elder scroll game. I did make a new thread but I coul d not find it maybe the moderator removed it!!

anyway to make a long story... well less long hehe I want to say that I greatly enjoyed both the ES games I played (oblivion and morrowind) but I did enjoy morrowind a little better to be honest, BUT what really bugged me about both games is the uninteresting combat/magic/stealth system, why? well that's why I made this post where I want to discuss (though it might be of no real goal but our own nerdy entertainment) the possibility of improving the said system to something much more engaging and challenging.

1- The combat system in both games left much to be desired, and actually in oblivion the combat system was better, though boring after a few hours of play. What I would love to see (and I mentioned this before on too many sites to remember ) is a combat system like the one I saw in Dark Messiah, with improvements of course, I want weapons to interlock when u and the bad/good guy swing swords, I want arrows to fly fast and to pin enemies to walls if they die close to one. I want shield slams, and spear charges and awesome fighting styles for each weapon type AND on each skill level for that said weapon, I want to see dismemberment or beheading or impaling strikes, and in addition to the traditional skill tree of the ES I want the skills to have many more sub skills and abilities, example :
long blade skill:
a- wide slash = you swing the sword in an arc in front of u damaging all enemies in its path and knocking them down if its a 2H sword.
b- Counter strike = after a successful block/parry u can do a counter strike that knocks ur enemy back if he is not killed.
c- Vital strikes (passive ability) = your blade strikes have a chance of making the enemy bleed
.......etc. You get the point

2- The magic system in both games also was bad and limited, all spells came in the form of "balls" or touch spells, (except summoning which was lame too) the spells of destruction had no effects other than damage, and the other schools offered no interesting spell "animations" to separate them from the school of destruction, every spell was a "projectile ball".
In my humble opinion the new spell system should be MUCH more interesting and deep, if u played Dark messiah or diablo 2 or world of warcraft, or Hexen 2, you will see a lot of amazing magic effects and skill trees that leave u in awe, and invite u to explore and learn more about them, I want ES 5 to have a more complex and interesting magic system, for example the school of destruction should open up three different sub skill trees for u to invest points or learning points or whatever in them, fire, ice, and lightning, and each sub tree has MANY spells and passive abilities, so instead of a fire ball that does not burn anything, u get:
Fire Magic:
a- Fire ball = a sphere of deadly fire to hurl at ur enemy becomes guided when u level up the skill and will have large AOE.
b- Fire Circle = an explosion of fire radiates from the caster burning all targets around u.
c- Fire Wall = create a wall of fire in front of the caster that blocks/burns enemies.
....etc.
Ice Magic:
a- Ice Blast = freeze the enemy in a solid block of ice, when it breaks he is slow and sluggish, if the frozen enemy gets kicked of a ledge he will shatter upon impact, higher levels freeze enemies longer.
b- Ice Shards = A torrent of ice shards shoots forth from ur hands and will not stop until u command it or run out of mana.
c- Ice Nova = A blast that freezes all enemies around u saving u from death.
....etc

3- The stealth system was the WORST thing ever, and if u played the thief series u will agree with me, I want stealth to be amazing like in the thief games, as u use darkness for cover, and different floor surfaces actually affect the noise u make while u sneak/wall/run, I want deadly back stabs, and blackjack knockouts, and I want roof jumping, and rich people's homes full of valuables to steal, I want ropes, and traps, and the ability to hide from pursuers if I have good stealth skill and I run around a corner into a dark ally or door way.
AND NO GOD GUARDS PLZZZZZZZZ.
I think the stealth system is by far the hardest thing to manage for the ES team, but they can do it, I mean look at fallout 3 u can see that their skills are improving ALOT.


anyway that's the only thing that worries me anyhow everything else is icing on the cake, if the combat/magic/stealth system is great and complex (as in many skills and abilities and spells and such) then everything else should fall into place.

feel free to give ur opinions and again glad to be on these forums.

I liked the stealth. :cold:
And there was roof jumping.

Traps would be nice, though.

Which kind of traps did you have in mind? Roof traps or traps on the front lawns of old NPCs? "I'll make you sorry you ever played on my lawn, you crazy kids!"

Bear traps, gas traps, magical traps, etc.

What'd be fun is if you could make a poison into a trap. So if they walked into the... I dunno what you'd call it, it'd turn into a vapor and effect them.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Traps My favorites are the spiked barriers and the dark welkynd stones.

My favorites have gotta be Avalanches, Swinging Logs, Falling Logs, Rotten Planks, and Cave-Ins... but you couldn't exactly set that up... unless... you had a way to move large objects like rocks to push them down a hill.

Spiked Barriers and Dark Welkynd Stones are also awesome.

As you can probably tell though, I love physics-based traps. Just adds that extra element of "I just got smacked in the head with a chunk of falling rubble."