I made a thread about making the TES game easier. I don't want to derail that thread, so I thought I would make this one. There are lots of comments thrown around saying this is better or that is better. This is matter of opnion and not fact. I and I believe many people would understand what the perosn is saying if they explained themsleves instead of just saying oh this is better in Oblivion, or that was better in Morrowind or this was better in Daggerfall without any explanation.

Please remember the rule. No comments without explanations. For example Fast travel svcks or Oblivions combat is better. If Fast travel svcks please explain why. Once someone responsds to your comment please respect their opnions may differ from yours. If you need to say why Oblivion's combat is better, please have an explanation. What I am hoping is, someone may make a comment and someone may have a suggestion how to overcome it. For example fast travels svcks. Well if it svcks, don't use it. If you feel the need to use it, have a rubber band around your wrist and pull very hard on it. This way you may not use it so much then.

There maybe be no solution, like how I wish we could travel to other provinces. Only arean and mods let us do this and if we are on the console there is nothing we can do about it. We can all be civil about it and have a very good discusion about what we like or do not like in any TES game.

For me, I love fast travel. I know many don't like it, so don't use it. For me, it's was great that it was in Daggerfall and Oblivion, because my gaming time was limited and I did not have the time to just walk or run to my destination. Once I completed the quest, I wanted to get back to the quest giver so I can play more instead of just walking. sometimes I would walk back but other times when I didn't have much time, I would just fast travel.

I did not like the lock picking or the other mini game in Oblvion. For me that depended too much on real life human skill and not game skill. I could be level 5 lock pick, but if a person is good enough they could pick the lock and be successfull then. I prefer the more Morrowind type success based on game skill. Just because I hit somone like in Oblivion dosn't mean you do damage. Some people say you keep hitting people in Morrowind and you still do no damage. What people forget is that Morrowind goes by skills. If you are a low skill of course you will not be able to use the weapon properly. If anyone wieled a claymore in real life, yes they could pick it up, but would have difficulty swining it and hitting an expert with it. You could even hit an expert and I bet you would do no damage because the expert which would have a high skill would be hit but be able to deflect the claymore so damage would be done. Right now in even todays technology, nobody can show the game mechanics to do this. (well maybe the can, but so far I havn't see one that does it)

I do like Oblivions style of sneaking. I have so much fun with it, which I never had with Daggerfall or Morrowind. Is it the best? No, but it was fun. Why do I find it more fun? I am not shure. I like going in 3rd person view and seeing it that way. Also I find I can hide in shadows better in Oblivion. How can I make sneaking more fun in Morrowind? (See? I am asking a question how I can make something wich I feel is worse better off that I may not have noticed before.)

For me, it's hard to debate about the hand helding compass in Oblivion. Yes I found Morrowind frustrating sometimes, but I think this is a complete hard to easy with no inbetween. I wish it was a toggle because sometimes I hate where I know where I have to go. Other times like before, I do not have much time to play, so I just want to do what I need to do so I like that I can just go there and play. I would always roll play that knowing where the Green or Red indicator is people telling me where it is, or where to go to get more information. I could only do this for so long and it gets boring after a while. By switching to another quest does help, but seeing the green or red indicator just reminds me on how annoying it is.

There is more to comment on, but I would like to hear others opnions.

Careful on the thread count there.

As for me, I like Fallout 3's speech and lockpick system. They made much more sense than Oblivion's.

I disliked that in Oblivion you could fast travel to any discovered place from just about anywhere.
Morrowind's system was much better, with travel services from each city, and having teleport spells... but it was still a pain getting to places that was far from civilization. Adding mounts to Morrowind's system would make it just about perfect.
I do fast travel a lot while playing Oblivion... because I can, and it's the only fast traveling option, but I do use a mod to make all of the map unexplored when I exit the sewers... this way I have to get to all the cities before being able to fast travel there. Not fast traveling is not an option for me... it would just be a pain, but like I stated above... Morrowind was closer to the right solution than Oblivion was.

Its not really simple as saying "don't like it, so don't use it" in term of defending Oblivion's Fast Travel. The reason I would say that Oblivion's Fast Travel is panned is because the alternate simply does not exist. Its either clicking to ya destination on the map or walking/riding there. All other alternate forms in means of traveling from traveling service via boat or Mage Guilds to teleportation spells, I would assume, were be classified as redundant and thus removed.

I'm not touching this one with a 10 ft pole.

You mean your spear?

Wait, I have the option to mercilessly slaughter threads?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_kMs_q1g_CmQ/SHVRUpZmhhI/AAAAAAAAB-g/zmKqdgXgrFo/s400/Mr%2BBurns%2BEvil%2BLaugh.png

I would love to have both systems in a game, Morrowind and Oblivions fast travel. If I had to have one or the other is Oblivions, just because as, I said for time restraints.

What I do not understand, and I do not meet to mock or flame, is why do people use it if they hate it so much? That would be like me saying there shouldn't be females in the game because I just use males. The option is there, but I choose not to use it. So why use the fast travel then? I believe lots of people forget they don't have all the time in the world to just walk around all over the place so that is why lots of people want instant fast travel. For lots of people, they do not like walking or running all the time. So I think this is a great feature.

Yes I know this isn't a good option, but if you feel you need the mages guild transport systems or what not. walk to the mages guild and then use the fast travel option that way. Yes there is no Mage teleporter, but you can pretend when you go the mages guild door there is a teleporter there and then fast travel. Why can't this be done? Why does the removal of Fast Travel have to happen when so many people want it in? What I do not understand is why people can't stop using it? Is there no self control? If I didn't like fast travel I wouldn't use it. Lots of times I do not use it when I have lots of gaming time. But when I don't I use it, it's very helpful.

What I would like is what happened in Daggerfall. If I fast travelled, I could sometimes be stopped midway and be attacked by bandits. Would that be a good option as well? I just want to understand that is all.

I like how I can block in Oblivion. What I wish was, that I could still fail my block because of my skill just like in Morrowind. It added more fun to the combat system, but I just wish it wasn't always successfull that is all.

Also what other aspects do people like and why?

Almost reasonable in term of teleportation spell like Call and Recall but not so much for the person that can serve as a traveler for the PC. The tool for the system exist ie coe and coc, but wasn't put into making NPC in using these tools for the player to benefit.


Because the only opinion is either using the Oblivion's Fast Travel System (many despise it) or walking/riding back and forth (it turn into a chore right away and players end up using Oblivion's Fast Travel System as their resort). There isn't any other options that the player can do in term of traveling from one place to another. Another problem that goes hand to hand with Oblivion's Fast Travel System is how many quests is build on this Fast Travel System. Some quest literally requires the players to travel on one side of the map to the other and back again.

Also, using in comparison with choosing a male or female isn't really a good fall back for fast travel because choosing a gender is more of a roleplaying choice rather than a choice of function of ingame.


Because that just cheaping things out or giving excuses to a system that should have been there to begin with.

I like Oblivion/Daggerfall/Arena's fast-travel system as well as Oblivion/Daggerfall's maps. In Morrowind, I would discover a dungeon, but if I didn't feel like entering it at that time, I would have to deal with too much hassle to simply find it and come back to it again. Morrowind's map didn't have most dungeons labeled on its map as in Oblivion/Daggerfall and travelling in Morrowind just became tedious and annoying. When I want to revisit a place, I want to do it now. I don't like walking the same, exact path over and over again, especially with Morrowind's movement speed. Oblivion/Daggerfall/Arena's movement speeds were much better, in my opinion.

I like Oblivion's combat/stealth/magic systems more than Morrowind's. They were just more fun and more fluid, in my opinion. I liked how casting spells with weapons out was brought back from Daggerfall.

I like Oblivion's quests more than Morrowind's. They seemed more diverse and more interesting to me.

I like being able to buy a house, as in Oblivion and Daggerfall.

I like Oblivion's lore pretty much as much as I like Morrowind's, but Pelinal Whitestrake remains the coolest cultural hero of the entire series and Ayleids remain the coolest Elves(yes, cool Elves is a paradox ), in my opinion.

I enjoyed the stories of Morrowind and Oblivion pretty much equally, but I dislike Bethesda's decision to cut the political side they had planned for Oblivion out of the game and I dislike the lack of such a side in Morrowind, as well. Rebuilding Kvatch would have been great.

I actually like Oblivion's setting. I like trees and the variety in each city's architecture. I'm not a fan of ash, lava, or rocks. The views and the joy of hiking in Oblivion are amazing, in my opinion.

I like the interactivity of Oblivion's minigames and the character skill involvement in Morrowind's speech/lockpicking, but I felt both were lacking the other. Fallout 3, although not an Elder Scrolls game, tied the two(interactivity and character skill) together perfectly, in my opinion.

I like Oblivion's AI, unique dialogue, and voiced dialogue because it adds more life to NPCs, in my opinion.

I like exploration in Morrowind and Oblivion, but I do not like it in Arena and Daggerfall.

I like Oblivion's graphics/physics(difficult to master, but I can now place my books neatly on my bookshelf while I couldn't in the other Elder Scrolls games)/any other technological improvements.

I prefer Morrowind's training system to Daggerfall's and Oblivion's. I really hate the only up to a skill level of 50 rule(Daggerfall) and the only 5 training sessions per level rule(Oblivion).

I like weapons, rings, and necklaces being visible on my character at all times, even when they aren't drawn, in the case of weapons.

I like the customization options when it comes to mixing and matching in Oblivion, but I prefer both Morrowind's and, especially, Daggerfall's way of doing things in this department.

I like Oblivion's journal more than Morrowind's, which I like more than Daggerfall's.

I like horses, but I wish I could fight while on them and I wish they didn't attract enemies to them.

dungeons-

design: Oblivion(just the right size and style with traps)>Morrowind(too small, but better than too large or too confusing)>Arena>Daggerfall(too large and too labyrinth-like), in my opinion

atmosphere: Oblivion(dark, oftenly requiring a light spell, a night eye spell, or a torch; eerie and atmospheric music)>Daggerfall(nice music, but too light and I like Oblivion's music more)>Arena(only one type of dungeon music and still too light)>Morrowind(no dungeon music, too bright), in my opinion

content: Morrowind(nice, occasional, hand-placed items)>Oblivion(nice, occasional, lore-related find/background story, but lacking good hand-placed items; those that are hand-placed are typically something of horrible quality, such as iron items)>Daggerfall(completely lacking in any interesting finds whatsoever)=Arena(same as Daggerfall; completely lacking in any interesting finds whatsoever)

character creation-

character skill side: Daggerfall>Morrowind>Oblivion>Arena, in my opinion

character appearance side: Oblivion>Morrowind>Daggerfall>Arena, in my opinion

introduction to gameworld: Morrowind(short and sweet)>Oblivion(love the view from exiting the sewers)>Daggerfall=Arena, in my opinion

leveling-

character leveling: Daggerfall(no attribute multipliers)>Oblivion(I hate attribute multipliers)=Morrowind(I hate attribute multipliers)>Arena(too basic of an experience points system; I like learning by use)

non-character leveling(don't know about Arena's way; never paid attention to it): Daggerfall>Morrowind(too easy at higher levels)>Oblivion(too easy at lower levels and too hard at higher levels)

item scaling(don't know about Arena's way; never paid attention to it): Morrowind>Daggerfall>Oblivion(I hate unique items being permanently scaled to the level I obtain them at)

I could go on, but I've got a movie to watch.

Liked Morrowind’s travel better, just because it took some intelligence to find the fastest route: i.e. to get some where you would have to take a boat, mages guild, mark, recall, or ride the giant bug.

The second time I played Oblivion, I attempted to not use fast travel. I admit that I used it several times, but around level20, I was carrying around speed enchanted armor/rings, so every time I wanted to take off running through the woods to the next town, I would do a clothing swap instead of the fast travel…. It actually made the game more enjoyable for me and I actually found some places I missed the first time around.

Another thing I like about Daggerfall, is yes you can ride on a horse, you can also ride a cart. With the cart, you can carry lot more loot as well. I remember leaving a mark by the exit/entrence of the dungeon and when I was full, I cast recall, and then put my stuff in the cart and go back again. I liked the Rat pack you got in Tribunal. I wish they had something like that in Oblivion.

We should be able to have mules or what ever they were called in Morrowind. Even hire slaves or helpers, just to carry stuff for you and I guess you could set up your own caravan if you wanted too.

That would be better than how it is in Oblivion. That way at least it's not like magic, and other options for fast travel might be useful then, like using mark and recall or other services.

No elder scrolls game truly felt alive to me. They made great strides with oblivion where the AI doesn't just stand around outside all day and that they have more robust voice acting. But everything seemed too mechanical. There would be the occasional banter between the NPCs but a lot of the time they'd just be standing around or doing some repetitive task (the people in the bloodworks come to mind). I would like a margin of unpredictability as well as more AI interaction that doesn't have to be initiated by you.

Have you ever played Morrowind..? Morrowind definitely seems much more alive to me through the atmosphere and the general theme of the game than Oblivion. Oblivion was pretty, it had great improvements in AI, but I see Oblivion as a test game. They hit it dead on with Morrowind in terms of atmosphere, they improved mechanics in OB, now it's time for TES:V to take both of those things and make the perfect game.

Yes, that is indeed the way I feel.

Morrowind had a lot of things that felt "alive", and Oblivion improved upon the mechanics, and in some cases, to me, felt "alive". Now they need to combine both, and even further accelerate the process to make a truly realistic world.

Seven class skills from Oblivion

Daggerfall's grimoire

skill-based hit probabilities

Do I really have to explain why the Speechcraft system is terrible?

Seriously. Is it even necessary?

And before anyone bring sit up, "No, Morrowind was NOT better. It was simply a different brand of svck."

Not to mention the landscape all looks the same, and a happy-fantasy-LOTR world at that. Not to say I don't like Oblivion though.

I like the physics based hit detection from Oblivion.

I like the high damage and general damage range that the weapons have in morrowind.

I like the idea of power attacks, and wish this would be expanded upon, possibly with customization.

I like the moral neutrality from Morrowind.

I like the advantage/disadvantage stuff from Daggerfall.

I like weapon/armor/clothes diversity from morrowind.

Just started playing Morrowind again. One thing I forgot wich I dislike in Oblivion is that you can never fail. You never fail to hit, You never fail to cast a spell. While yes it was fun at first firing fireball after fireball after fireball at my enemies, it became boring after awhile, since I can never fail. Where is the challenge? Where is my sense of achievement when I accomplished something?

I guess it's ok for my son, but I would like something more. I just find it funny when my son played Morrowind he never once complained about failing something.

I agree with all that you say in your post (very well put!) but I really have to quote this, because it is not heard enough. While I adore many areas of Vvardenfell frankly I think the game world too often resembled a theme park. Graphically, Morrowind was composed of distinct "zones," much like those found in World of Warcraft. The transition between regions was just too abrupt in spots for my taste.

Cyrodiil had its regions too, but in my opinion Bethesda blended them together with more taste and sophistication. Gone is the jarringly abrupt transition from grass and living trees to dead trees and volanic rock near the Fields of Kummu, for example. The transition from the southern marshes to the deciduous forest around Lake Rumare to the snowy mountains near Bruma is crafted in a much more subtle and, in my opinion, more artistically mature manner in Oblivion.

Lol, exactly. Oblivion is the game you let an 8 year old play. Morrowind is the game a mature, intelligent gamer plays.
Anyone else not even see Oblivion as an RPG? I see more hacknslash and adventure game features in it than RPG.

I think technology helped, a lot. It was beautiful and resembled real world something only Crysis successfully achieved. I would like to see the alien world aspect of it too though. Speaking of Crysis, we should notice what they did for variety.

Jungle = Green Oblivion
Frozen world = Snowy Oblivion
Zero Gravity Spaceship = Oblivion Realms

I think Oblivion needed at least one more distinct environment. Some deserts maybe? Or utilizing the waters? Or both?

Enough already.

Lol, exactly. Morrowind is the game you let an 8 year old play. Daggerfall is the game a mature, intelligent gamer plays.
Anyone else not even see Morrowind as an RPG? I see more hacknslash and adventure game features in it than RPG.

It's funny how that fits.