[Jessica White]

I've never seen this done on the Skyrim board and I think we could really use it. There's a lot of disagreement here on what should be in the game, with the tone of discussion varying even between threads on the exact same issue because of the huge number of individuals with subtly different expectations of the game. While I realise that the real influence our little community has over the development is very small (mainly by virtue of it being such a damn clamouring), I still think it would be interesting to have a halfway definitive picture of what the community wants from Skyrim's narrative. So vote away, community, and debate too.

Personally my votes went 3, 2, 1, 2, 2.

I disliked the rapid way in which Oblivion's story took centre stage, and I never could focus on something else once the Oblivion gates had sprung up without breaking my suspension of disbelief. It's absurd that I can put the invasion from the Plane of Destruction on hold while I rise up the ranks of the Thieves' Guild, and the invasion got to that "this is a really big deal" point very early on in the story. I much preferred Morrowind's style of having you slowly unravel the forces at work behind the MQ.

I love choices with consequences in my games. To me TES games are Dungeon Masters, responsible for making sure the world reacts believably to my actions. It's very difficult to achieve this by pure simulation (as Fable fans can surely attest to) and so a small network of decisions that have a tangible effect on the world go a long way toward creating the illusion of a fully reactive one. Fortunately it sounds like BGS is going for this effect from what we've heard about sabotaging the Riverwood mill and such.

I adore morality in videogames. Videogames are a storytelling medium at their core, and I can't invest myself emotionally in a story that I don't identify with, and life is very rarely black and white morally. Being presented with situations in which the "right" course of action to take does not fall squarely under my character's archetype allows me to identify with them the most, and to create the most complex imaginary inner motivations for them. Essentially, I think that morally ambiguous situations are the ultimate RPing device, and should be included as much as possible.

I find perfectly happy endings patronising, but "bad" endings unfulfilling. Thus, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BittersweetEnding tend to hit the nail on the head for me. For examples of great stories that benefit (in my opinion) from bittersweet endings see Moulin Rouge, Halo, Metal Gear Solid, Shadow of the Colossus, CoD4 and Modern Warfare 2, Red Dead Redemption, Fallout 3 (before Bogus Steel), Fable 2's sacrifice ending (before Knothole Island. Stupid Knothole Island...), Half Life, BioShock 2, DA:O, LOTR, Les Misérables, Harry Potter, and many, many, many more more that I have not played/read/watched.

And finally, while I would not see romance become a major theme of TES (I just don't think you can have a dedicated love story with so much violence, and I enjoy TES violence), I do think that a well developed romance could breathe some much needed life into the series's infamously cold NPCs. At the very least I would like to see BGS approach the subject of six and romance more maturely than they have in the past, or not at all.

Go go go.

[Roy Harris]

I voted soon for the first one. I want to be introduced to the premise of the MQ right away but be sent off to do my own thing at the same time. I thought Oblivion did a good job at this. You knew the dangers immediately, but the journey was yours to decide when to make it.

I voted for the F:NV style branching story. I thought that was a nice way to do it, you deciding which faction would end up on top. I can imagine it will play a similar role here, only replacing the Legion and NCR with two different Nord families.

I voted for a lot of moral dilemmas because that's pretty much the best thing you can do for an RPG in regards to building a tie with the character you play with. I voted for a bittersweet ending because I'm neither a fan of fairy tales or horror movies. Happily ever after annoys me, but then the movies that end with everyone dying is just as bad. I liked Oblivion's ending. You stopped the dangers presented but lost the last line of the emperors and uncertainty reigned in the world.

I voted no romance, but a few jokes or references like in Morrowind and Oblivion. Romance doesn't seem necessary in TES. I'm neither for nor against it though.

Great poll, by the way.

[xemmybx]

The problem with F:NV-type of multiple endings is the same problem that Daggerfall had. When it comes time for the next game in the series, which ending do you take as canonical? In the case of Daggerfall, they took all of them and it was kind of a mess. It's not the type of thing you want to intentionally do. I say one straight path for the main quest, maybe with one or two slight deviations possible that ultimately will not effect the outcome of the story (similar to killing Vivec and getting the jury-rigged Wraithguard.)

Other than that, moral ambiguity is fine, but there's not going to be a whole lot of room for that as far as Alduin vs. The World goes. I'd also say it's pretty debatable that we don't know his motivations.

[Rachell Katherine]

1) Don't want to feel pressured into the main quest, and want to be able to take things at my own pace, as Morrowind started. And as was stated in Morrowind, it's wiser for your character to gain combat experience and training, develop connections, and accumulate resources before taking on difficult tasks.

2) I'd like my character's actions to have observable consequences, to what extent and depth I'd leave up to the developers though - while ideally it'd be complex and deep with many possibilities, it's currently nigh impossible to tell a meaningful story without some controlling narrative and I think it's important that they don't sacrifice too much for illusions of choice and consequence. As I'm not creating the story or working within the limits and lore that the devs are, I can't really measure the pros and cons.

3) As for morality, I just hope it doesn't restrict them too much, and that they don't too obviously manufacture moral dilemmas so they can praise such as a feature of the game. There should be moral dilemma involved in any struggle and in any world with problems. Skyrim will obviously have struggles and problems so I don't think it's something they need to go out of their way to create if they make the effort to create convincing interaction with NPCs and an immersive game world.

4) In the ending, if there were no negative impacts then it wouldn't be a particularly compelling main quest and/or the antagonist would be pretty underwhelming. I'd prefer a dragon didn't eat the TES world though as I hope for more TES games. :]

5) It'd be nice to see some well developed option romances(something like Baldur's Gate 2's romance options) as well as more casual ones for those who prefer that. It's not an extremely important feature to me though.

[Sabrina Schwarz]

The problem with F:NV-type of multiple endings is the same problem that Daggerfall had. When it comes time for the next game in the series, which ending do you take as canonical?

I just hate this excuse. If Lore and canon are going to once again take away any semblance of choice from me, then I want them gone.

Dragon Age and Mass Effect did it right, The Witcher is taking the same direction, and I wish TES could follow suit. And if that's not possible, at least let the lore-obsessives have a 'default' storyline that would carry over to the next game, but still give us deviants the ability to stray from, or even utterly contradict, the canon just because many of us would find it much more satisfying. I don't want to save the world from that A-guy for the sole reason of again being a forcefully designated hero. I want to do it only because without the world still existing, I wouldn't be able to biatchily take advantage of the civil unrest in Skyrim and take it over. Even if TES 6 begins with an entirely different assumption as the canonical course of events, at least I'll have the satisfaction of having played a non-linear story where my choices and motivations actually mattered, even if only within the context of one game.

[MARLON JOHNSON]

Daggerfall had just the right progression to me. It was always kind of there, something which I think is inevitable given that there are freaking dragons flying all over the place, but I'd like it to start off fairly low-key. I don't want the main quest to be a loose-cannon affair as often as it were in Oblivion. We should be encouraged to join factions, meet friends, and make powerful connections. It's the only way to survive in a rugged environment like Skyrim. Hopefully there will be lots of court intrigue as there were in the earlier games - I'd be severely disappointed if half of the main quest involved running errands for Esbern, and not actually deviating now and then to look into conspiracies or factions with opposing views as to what's going on in Skyrim's political and social climate.

As dramatic or mundane as the events of the main quest present themselves to the player, I still think we need even more emphasis that the game world is very fluid, with lots of events going on in the background. Certainly, with the Radiant Story system it's completely possible now. Turn down the favors of some noble or help in a blackmailing plot against them, perhaps they'll take it upon themselves to try and have you assassinated later on in the story. Let's not forget that this tension should gradually escalate, of course. Maybe the roads could become increasingly dangerous with less NPCs leaving the cities - causing the economy to dip slightly. There's much more to the design of the main quest than merely writing the literal quests.

[Jinx Sykes]

I'm not expecting all that much from the main quest. If we demand that they make some complex network of choices and consequences then it is likely that everything else the game has to offer will be below average. You can't have it all, Bioware's game offer (or try to offer) choices and consequences and make a well developed mainstory but it comes at the expense of freedom.

I'd rather see Bethesda focus on making the world and the guilds more complex. Tha radiant world with jobs and a working economy sounds great to me. But I want to see dynamic guilds as well that really feel like a part of the world. So that you'll see mercenary kind of guild folk protect the traders and have can come across mages/druids in the wild gathering ingredient. And I want to make choices that effect the business of the guilds as I become more important. For example I'd like to see me accept or fight the practice of necromancy, protect all traders or only those with the largest pockets, etc.

Most likely I will only play the main quest once or twice, the guild experience is something I care much more about. Elder Scrolls have always been large games but they are static. Once you run out of quests and reach the top of a guild then the guild experience ends. I want that changed more then the main quest. Natrually I'd like the main quest to be very engaging with political and religious mingling and all sort of (non-joinable) factions getting involved. But the main quest should be standalone experience. Naturally if you're leader of the mages guild then important figures in the MQ should acknowledge this but it shouldn't make or break the MQ experience. Apart from some minor stuff I'm not expecting to make choices and see compleetly different endings.

[Brian LeHury]

I'm happy with whatever Beth gives me. A solid 20 hours will suffice.

[Carlos Vazquez]

I just hate this excuse. If Lore and canon are going to once again take away any semblance of choice from me, then I want them gone.

Dragon Age and Mass Effect did it right, The Witcher is taking the same direction, and I wish TES could follow suit. And if that's not possible, at least let the lore-obsessives have a 'default' storyline that would carry over to the next game, but still give us deviants the ability to stray from, or even utterly contradict, the canon just because many of us would find it much more satisfying. I don't want to save the world from that A-guy for the sole reason of again being a forcefully designated hero. I want to do it only because without the world still existing, I wouldn't be able to biatchily take advantage of the civil unrest in Skyrim and take it over. Even if TES 6 begins with an entirely different assumption as the canonical course of events, at least I'll have the satisfaction of having played a non-linear story where my choices and motivations actually mattered, even if only within the context of one game.

Sorry, but lore and canon are what drive this series. Without them, there is no series. I hate when a game has multiple endings but then the next game only takes one as canonical, or else just ignores it altogether, undermining your accomplishments of the past game as inconsequential. Personally, I would be much more satisfied looking at the one main story and how it will effect the world and what the repercussions are, rather than just not think about any of it because there are multiple endings and who's to say which one is going to be considered canonical, if any at all? And all for the sake of some arbitrary gameplay element.

[Holli Dillon]

Fantastic Poll, chap.

How soon do you want the MQ to take centre stage?

Give it time to be presented. I think many people picked this option because it was the Morrowind-style opening and not because they really understand what pacing really means. It's most likely going to be Oblivion style, but what really matters is that the dire urgency doesn't come until a bit into the quest. Like, say, you need some McGuffins but you don't learn of it until you've all ready ascended to 7,000 steps.

What degree of branching story do you want?

I am always a fan of non-linear gameplay, and I love how you look at the situation realistically. Any little amount of choice I can make that's non-combat is very welcomed, and by having just a few good choices you can personalize I game. And don't judge us Mass Effect style, m'kay?

To what degree do you want morality, with all its shades of grey, to be central to Skyrim's story?

This is another thing people to look to Mass Effect to, and so wrongly so. Mass Effect has what I call a "laundry list" story. It has to shoehorn in every ethical dilemma it can so that the people want notice how blisteringly contrived the whole scene actually is. I love moral choice systems done right (I.E The Witcher and Deus Ex) but I don't think Skyrim would be the best place for a gigantic moral testing ground. I picked the second option. Grey's great, but don't overdo it else you'll end up MAss Effect-ing it.

Regardless of how many different endings you want to be on offer, what ending would you personally enjoy the most if you could play Skyrim's MQ only once?

I picked happy, only because it's going to be happy. The Dovakiin will become the new emperor. I'd love to see the bad guys win and Nirn have its history reset so that ES6 could begin on an entirely new pallet of history, but gamesas won't do that. They spent too much time on all this and they clearly want the player to feel accomplished.

Bonus points: to what degree should romance play a part in Skyrim's story?

People overreact to this word, and I think it's just wrong to do so. Romance is good, but some just assume they want to take it overboard. Just a friendly romance, no sixual stuffs.

[Kevan Olson]

...but what really matters is that the dire urgency doesn't come until a bit into the quest. Like, say, you need some McGuffins

If that isn't urgent I don't know what is.

[Tracey Duncan]

5/5/3/1/3


Given the "destined hero" style of the TES games that I've played... branching plotlines w/multiple endings, post-modern grey morality... these things aren't TES to me. I have other games for that stuff, I don't need or want it in every game - I want variety in my gaming experiences.

It gets somewhat tiresome when people try to make every single game fit their preference for the "one true" gaming style. Just because Dragon Age or The Witcher or Fallout:New Vegas did something a certain way (and had it work well) doesn't mean that every game should. (As an aside - with all the decisions and different paths you could take in FO:NV and Dragon Age? I've not been able to force myself to play them again. Mostly because the actual game wasn't enjoyable - Dragon Age, for instance... I ended up hating the combat. It just got so *@!$^ tedious. No matter that I want to see how some other character classes, decisions, and plotline turn out, I just can't force myself to play it again. Meanwhile, I've played around a dozen characters each in Fallout 3 and Oblivion.)

Also, TES games aren't really big "character development/linear story" games for me, so I don't really see any kind of romance fitting into it - you need to have lots of story interactions with a limited number of NPCs (like, your party or team), in order to progress a story far enough to make romance seem even vaguely reasonable. Even Bioware games seem a bit rushed sometimes, honestly. TES? Doesn't give you those kind of NPC interactions.



Random side comment....

"I should be able to drop the MQ at any point and pursue other things without feeling as though I've left a flaming asteroid in the sky prepared to drop as soon as I'm ready for it."

Perhaps it's a sign that I've played JRPGs too long (and/or, other games with plenty of sidequests and clear "ok, once you get past here, you're committed to the Final Battle - go spend a few months clearing up any loose ends!" warnings), but the flaming asteroid hanging in the sky? Doesn't even register as a problem to me anymore. :rofl:

[Vickey Martinez]

If that isn't urgent I don't know what is.

I'm saying that you don't learn about it until later, thus you don't realize you have to hurry and get them.

[KRistina Karlsson]

I want atleast 1 quest involving wereboars.

[Chelsea Head]

GoodGuyA, I got your point. I was joking with you. Thanks for your contribution

Given the "destined hero" style of the TES games that I've played... branching plotlines w/multiple endings, post-modern grey morality... these things aren't TES to me. I have other games for that stuff, I don't need or want it in every game - I want variety in my gaming experiences.

It gets somewhat tiresome when people try to make every single game fit their preference for the "one true" gaming style. Just because Dragon Age or The Witcher or Fallout:New Vegas did something a certain way (and had it work well) doesn't mean that every game should. (As an aside - with all the decisions and different paths you could take in FO:NV and Dragon Age? I've not been able to force myself to play them again. Mostly because the actual game wasn't enjoyable - Dragon Age, for instance... I ended up hating the combat. It just got so *@!$^ tedious. No matter that I want to see how some other character classes, decisions, and plotline turn out, I just can't force myself to play it again. Meanwhile, I've played around a dozen characters each in Fallout 3 and Oblivion.)

Of course, the flip side of that is that BGS have repeatedly stated that they just want to make games that people want to play. There is little that is quintessentially "TES" to them. They do what works. If branched stories and grey morality are subjectively enjoyable by the majority within the RPG market these days, are those aspects not "TES"?

[Stacyia]

Unless Bethesda's dialogue writing is worlds improved over their past efforts, I sincerely hope that there is no romance. Convincing romance requires frequent contact and tons of dialgue with a character, and I honestly don't see it being pulled off well here, nor does it need to be. It would take an enormous effort for just one romance option, and there would need to be several to keep in line with the whole "freedom" vibe of TES.

"Moral choice" has also become the biggest buzzword gimmick in RPGs these days, and I hope it's kept to a minimum here. A few choices are fine, but please no hugely black-and-white "save or destroy Megaton" style choices. And no morality meters! If any dialgue choices are locked off because my bereft-of-freewill character hasn't leveled up his goodness or evilness enough, I will be severely disappointed. In real life, good people can make bad choices and visa-versa. Morality meters are a super-contrived mechanic that needs to go extinct.

[ILy- Forver]

Just wanted to say that this (OP) is the most interesting and well though-out poll so far here on this forum. Great work ! :tops:

... and my votes were 4, 1, 1, 2, 2.

[Karl harris]

Sorry, but lore and canon are what drive this series. Without them, there is no series. I hate when a game has multiple endings but then the next game only takes one as canonical, or else just ignores it altogether, undermining your accomplishments of the past game as inconsequential. Personally, I would be much more satisfied looking at the one main story and how it will effect the world and what the repercussions are, rather than just not think about any of it because there are multiple endings and who's to say which one is going to be considered canonical, if any at all? And all for the sake of some arbitrary gameplay element.

I understand, yes... but still cannot accept it. Linear storylines are always inferior to complex ones (this is an inarguable fact, not an opinion - okay, maybe not quite, but still I think so), especially in games aspiring to the label of 'cRPG'. I enjoyed Dragon Age and The Witcher much, much more than I ever did Morrowind or Oblivion, because in those games, instead of just hopelessly following a linear storyline, I could actually participate in building it, witness the short- and long-term consequences of my choices and feel immesurable satisfaction knowing that these were my decisions - my input, advancing me from an idle spectator of the great play to one of its lead actors (... who takes some liberty with the script ;p).

And that's... the entire point, I think - enjoying it. It is what games, being entertainment first and foremost, should strive for above all else. As long as a game is entertaining, other considerations may without worry retire to the background. Otherwise, it's the game that retires... to gather dust on the shelf.

[Vicky Keeler]

I understand, yes... but still cannot accept it. Linear storylines are always inferior to complex ones (this is an inarguable fact, not an opinion - okay, maybe not quite, but still I think so), especially in games aspiring to the label of 'cRPG'. I enjoyed Dragon Age and The Witcher much, much more than I ever did Morrowind or Oblivion, because in those games, instead of just hopelessly following a linear storyline, I could actually participate in building it, witness the short- and long-term consequences of my choices and feel immesurable satisfaction knowing that these were my decisions - my input, advancing me from an idle spectator of the great play to one of its lead actors (... who takes some liberty with the script ;p).

And that's... the entire point, I think - enjoying it. It is what games, being entertainment first and foremost, should strive for above all else. As long as a game is entertaining, other considerations may without worry retire to the background. Otherwise, it's the game that retires... to gather dust on the shelf.

Two words: for you.

[Marilú]

Linear storylines are always inferior to complex ones (this is an inarguable fact, not an opinion - okay, maybe not quite, but still I think so)

You've invoked the wrath of the dragon.

Three more words: Half-Life 2.

And who says a linear story can't be complex?

[Tai Scott]

The problem with F:NV-type of multiple endings is the same problem that Daggerfall had. When it comes time for the next game in the series, which ending do you take as canonical? In the case of Daggerfall, they took all of them and it was kind of a mess. It's not the type of thing you want to intentionally do. I say one straight path for the main quest, maybe with one or two slight deviations possible that ultimately will not effect the outcome of the story (similar to killing Vivec and getting the jury-rigged Wraithguard.)

Other than that, moral ambiguity is fine, but there's not going to be a whole lot of room for that as far as Alduin vs. The World goes. I'd also say it's pretty debatable that we don't know his motivations.

They mashed all the endings together and made up an event called The Warp in the west. The world didn't care who you gave the heart to; numidium woke up and that was the ending of Daggerfall.

[NEGRO]

Yes... I might have gone a tiny little bit overboard with that statement, for which I apologise, but having been raised on tabletop roleplaying games, my standards will go no lower (and I'll continue this... shall we say, motivational whining until somehow the sheer power of my will makes the world a better place for me ;>)

[Farrah Lee]

I certainly don't want a main story like Oblivion's. It was a story that simply didn't work for an open world game where you can do whatever you want whenever you want. There are Oblivion gates opening all over Tamriel, cities get destroyed, people die like flies and yet the only one who can save the world is hunting deer in the forests because he thinks it's more fun to do so? That's ridiculous, at least as long as you don't play an evil character. I certainly hope it will be different in Skyrim, but since the dragon invasion is somewhat similar to the Daedra invasion I fear it will be just as ridiculous. Dragons attacking and killing people everywhere, yet the only one who can stop them decides to 'climb that mountain over there because it looks cool'.

Then there is the problem of creating a believable 'end of world' scenario in a world where you have a limited amount of NPCs and non-destructible buildings and most importantly no time pressure (!). While the dragons seem to attack cities (all cities and not just a single one like Kvatch in Oblivion) and people die it still doesn't make a difference in the grand scheme of things because people 'respawn' (get replaced by family members) and buildings are not destroyed (except for maybe a very limited amount of scripted ones). So no matter how long you wait to stop the invasion, the world will stay the same. Where is the threat? There is none, at least no believable threat where you really think 'I have to do this now or the world will end'.

That's why I voted for (very) 'late' in the first category. I think the dragon threat should only become 'apocalyptic' once there is no point of return in the main quest and once the player has to go on with it.

I also don't like 'save the world' as the character's only motivation. Seriously, what would you do if someone (who gets killed almost immediately) told that you are 'the one from his dreams' and that this is the reason why only you can walk into hell to defeat hordes of Daedra (with an estimated chance of survival of 0.0001%) and save the world? I would say 'No, thanks, let someone else do the job. This guy obviously wasn't quite right in his mind or he confused me with someone else'. There needs to be a stronger motivation. Like romance or a personal relationship for example, which is always a good motivation (if you've ever loved someone, be it your wife/husband, your parents or your best friend you know what I'm talking about). The more possible motivations you can choose from, the better it is for role-playing.

In the second category I voted for the 'capillary network', although that's admittedly a bit too much to ask for (quest development would be an insane amount of work). So a realistic expectation would be the 'key moments' option.

I like morale decisions, but I don't like black or white decisions. No one except for a psychopath is really evil (as in 'destroy the world just for the sake of destroying the world') and even the holiest paladin has to make a living. I want shades of gray, no obvious 'I'm the nice guy' and 'I'm the bad guy' choices. I want choices that make sense to me as a real life person.

Obviously I chose the first option in the third category.

The fourth category is easy imo. Bittersweet endings invoke feelings and are something you remember. Happy endings are ok, but they don't feel very emotional. An evil ending will never happen in a TES game anyway (at least as long as there is only one ending).

I already said something about romance. I voted for the first option in that category. It's one of the main motivations of mankind, so why leave it out like in past ES games? Not only romance, but also personal relationships in general. There is none of that in ES games. Only heroic talk about saving the world and interchangeable quest givers.

[Haley Cooper]

I chose 3 4 5 2 3, but really not too concerned. The moral one was the only option I chose other because I like there to be some moral dilemmas around and grey areas etc but I don't think you should be able to join Alduin. Even an evil character wouldn't want to be eaten up with the world.

[Crystal Birch]

Good poll.

Unfortunately, I only know that I like Morrowind's relaxing style. As for the rest, I really don't know what I want.