Reloading a weapon clears most jams, so I didn't vote chance to jam while reloading.

Skyrim is different

The narrative and setting was not about survival and scavenging for supplies. Weapon maintenance is Skyrim was not too important to the overarching survival aspect.

Here is should perform a part of that

I think that weapon degradation needs to be slowed, and needs to do pretty much everything listed.

I also think unjamming a gun should be dependent on a mix of your gun and repair skills. Someone with high repair skills can solve the problem at a workbench, but might not have the intimate knowledge of the gun to fix it in the heat of battle, whereas someone skilled with guns knows their weapon's various parts well enough to troubleshoot, but might not start fixing it on the right foot. Having the speed you unjam a weapon be dependent on both skills would be a good way to blend it.

Not to say it should take 80 years to unjam a weapon if you have both skills low or anything like that.

Totaly this! I was very disappointed they took repair out out Skyrim, it was just too darn fast in all their games. Slow the degradation down but make it mean a lot once the condition is bad.

However... I have learned as a modder that is it better game play to give a reward for doing something than a penalty for not doing it. So maybe use a similar system as Skyrim BUT have the improvements degrade over a slow amount of time. I suppose it is a matter of perspective (half full or half empty) as BOTH ways are actually the same. The only difference is just where your weapon stats START.

Fair gun stats made good but over time it degrade back to original OR Good gun stats made fair over time as it degrades.

But that is what game psychology is all about.

Either way I still think it is a useless mechanic in its current form and will never vouch for it in it's current state.

Luckily though earlier I thought of a way to not have degradatiin feel so pointless to me that perhaps modders can end up including.

I think a good way to improve the mechanic would be adding in if the weapon gets shot (and especally if it happens to get blown up.) that it should outright break the weapon and only the top notch repairmen should be able to fix it.

Like minimum 85 LvL skill. If the weapon gets blown up only the very best repairmen can fix that.

Hope it's still around. If not, just more dumbing down.

If previous games are anything to go by, weapon degradation and repair is a feature that could stand to be cut. The feature was: lame, boring, lame, obnoxious, poorly thought out, tedious, lame and poorly implemented.

Because of how little weapon degradation and repair added to the game, and how much of an annoyance it was, I don't care to talk about how such a lame feature could be mechanically improved upon when removal is the better option.

I imagine that all the weapons in the Fallout universe are made of relatively fragile, soft materials. Meanwhile, in the real world, we have weapons that are tested by burying them into the dirt, retrieving them, loading them with little more than wiping the crud out of the way and then cycling tens of thousands of rounds through them. Certainly not every weapon manufactured is given that sort of torture test, but even your run of the mill weapon can fire tens of thousands of rounds before you have to worry about anything more serious than a spring or firing pin.

So my reasonable suggestion is that we would have to use this new crafting system to build the components of weapons (springs, firing pin, barrels, etc.) to replace the failed components of a found weapon. Once brought up to full health, the weapon should not degrade through use. Sure, there is infinitesimal wear and tear, but a "new" Desert Eagle is basically not going to degrade anywhere fast enough to even be a problem. Now getting shot, being dropped a long distance, getting caught in an explosion, those are all reasons for the weapon to get damaged and need repair.

Found weapons, in my mythical makes sense land, would be found with one or more components that need to be replaced. Depending on the component that needs replacing, the weapon can still be fired but may be less accurate or prone to jamming or even require a higher Perk or SPECIAL value to be used without penalty. There can even be some hand placed treasure weapons that are at full operational capacity.

None of that is going to happen in the base game, so I would prefer Bethesda to not even go there. Maybe do something like the Loot and Degradation mod (for Skyrim) where the weapon can be improved into categories above normal and then degrade from those enhanced categories back to normal. Of course, whatever method of degradation is present is probably already there so we will see come November what its final form will be.

i vote no weapon degradation ,it going to be a pure annoying thing since customizion should replace it,it also looks replaced(no bars that showed it )

Yeah...it's probably one of the first mods I am going to install once they get them going (hate that...it's unrealistic - particularly if your character knows everything there is about fire-arms...come on there's rifles from WW2 (and even earlier) still around and most of them still have the same barrel etc. - meaning that if you keep your gun clean and oiled etc. it will not easily break!)

greetings LAX

ps: Get rid of that mechanic - it's just tedium no one needs (or: hell, make me able to switch it off, so that people who like it can have it!)

That′s why I prefer no weapon degradation. Because is boring, simple like that.

they were originally going with a more complicated mini game for the doctor skill but that ended up being droped. I suspect anything more complicated than what they did in F 3 is also a no sale with them.

I definitely think it should stay but they should tweak it a little so that it's better (slower rate, with condition not affecting damage but increasing jams). Will I be heart broken if it doesn't come back? Absolutely not, I'll just spend the time I would've used for weapon maintenance on playing around with the crafting system.

Not interested in its return, as there is no happy medium for them to hit. To slow and it's never a factor in fights, but to fast and you have to carry copies of the same weapon around with you for repairing. It's busywork that the game cannot reward, only punish if ignored.

Much rather see ammo condition implemented. Lots of rubbish ammo in the world that could cause jamming/require a midfight reload or have a medium chance of firing a dud, some harder to find decent ammo that works as expected, and some extremely rare high quality stuff that increase damage/penetration but in order to get a sizable amount of it you'd need to craft/pay for it to be made. A system like that not only punishes ignoring your weapons, but also has the ability to reward you as well. Otherwise it's just busywork for the sake of busywork.

I think chance of weapon jamming should correlate to the percentage of weapon degradation along with whatever weapon skill you have, and degradation should be slowed much more than it was in Fallout 3.

I hope they add temporary condition effects like the gun getting coverd in mud or water getting in to the loaded ammo rasing the chance of a jam or misfire.

I am VERY curious on how you even came to that conclusion. I'm not going to say you haven't used a weapon. I am going to say you probably never used anything regularly. Or put it through real world abuse.

Grab a knife. Slash the crap out of some boxes regularly. Feel the blade then. It won't cut. Why? The blade dulls. Oh... and the blade can snap in half no matter how well made it is. The handle can also break.

Grab a gun. Shoot it like you are in war. It'll start jamming. It will missfire. And the piston's mechanism can actually break from the lack of proper cleaning. Why? Gun powder leaves residue and it's HOT when it burns. Automatics and Semi-autos uses that gas to rechamber the weapon. If it clogs, it won't work properly, and can actually break the gun. Oh... and don't bother oiling the gun either... see what happens. That's right it needs oil. All moving parts do.

Grab a sword. Start cutting up things. The sword WILL Eventually dull and break. Modern ones? Sure it might take longer. They're new after all. But let years of rust get to them? Or they were improperly made with scavenged materials? Yep... they'll break very quickly.

Grab ANOTHER GUN throw that thing in some hard lyme water for a month. Pull it out start firing it. It's going to break down very quickly. Most of the guns you find in fallout are stored in TERRIBLE conditions. The water is horribly irradiated, and filled with minerals that it will freaking build up on anything that's still inside it for too long. Take a look at older sink facets. All that crust and crap? From tap water. Imagine that being inside the gun.

Grab ANOTHER GUN AND SHOOT THAT GUN IN THE SIDE, then start firing it. Are you seriously going to say that the gun would still work? Nope... it's borked.

GRAB ANOTHER GUN. PUT THAT MOTHER IN A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION. LEAVE IT ALONE FOR 200 YEARS IN THE DUST. AND THEN TRY TO FIRE IT! I can guarantee you that thing won't work if all the above I mentioned is as close to regular use you can get to Fallout in the real world. Conditions of that arrangement? One megaton of TNT going off... and temperatures hotter than the surface of the sun. SO! If the gun wasn't melted. The ammunition inside the weapon would have actually gone off, and destroyed it anyways. Don't believe me? Throw a bullet in an open flame. You'll be in the hospital.

And if you want to be realistic. Those guns shouldn't even be working after all those bombs went off, and they've been left in the dust to rust. Be happy there are guns in the game, period.

I would like a small chance of the weapon backfiring, when condition is too low.
Shrapnel and all.

Something like the weapon breaking from actually getting shot at, or overheating, or maybe from using it in ways that go "beyond recommended parameters", like an alternative fire mode, could be cool.

But I don't think weapons should break down from regular use; it was neither fun nor challenging. Scavenging weapons for new parts in the crafting system seems a fair compromise between theme-appropriate and game-appropriate.

Armor degradation might be worth keeping if done right. Power Armor still has repair, curious to see how that will work.

It had better still be in the game. How could they market Fallout as a post apocalyptic survival game and get rid of this feature?

Its obvious beth is trying to walk down the Skyrim path by making the game accessible to a broader audience, but I don't think they'd consider cutting weapon damage. Especially considering the heavy crafting/repair/mechanical repair themes we've seen in the previews so far.

it main effect should be jams and only jaams, no amage no reloading speed and maybe some accuracy loss

enough said

I never saw it as something that would become a factor in a fight. It's only in the most dire of circumstances that you would need to repair your weapon in the heat of battle. To me, it was always something that was done when the dust settled, or when you had found a place to set up camp.

A slower degradation and removing being able to repair just anywhere might be a step in the right direction.

This.

Have a weapon start jamming when firing and jamming when reloading. Then when you are at a work bench you clean it and oil it.

I'm not against mechanics that add incentive to prep both you and your gear before/after you leave on an expedition into the wastes, not every mechanic related to combat needs to take place during said combat, but the repair system could only reward you by not causing negative effects. And if the only way to improve the system is to make it less of an issue and/or more restrictive, I just don't see its value. It just doesn't sound like a fun game system to me. I think there are better ways to implement the feel of scrounging for supplies in a post apocalyptic world while at the same time not having it feel like busy work.

And just to make sure I'm being clear, I don't think the player should get a reward for every little thing they do. Just that there should be both pros and cons to the system, instead of just cons and not-cons.

Such as (to both the pros/cons thing and the better way to implement feel of scrounging)?

I agree with that to a certain extent. I'm much more in favor of games rewarding certain behaviors than penalizing behaviors, though there are actions that should be penalized, such as slaughtering a town making it impossible for you to complete quests there, or sneaking with your Pip-Boy light on not being very effective at all. I think that weapon degradation usually fell into that category. And I would argue Repair rewarded you by greatly improving the value of your weapons on top of letting you clear your inventory on the go. It definitely needs work, but I think that scrapping it rather than repairing it is throwing the baby out with the bath water.