what exactly are the dragonborn? : V

» Fri May 13, 2011 9:14 am

Sorry If this is such a noobish question and please try not flame me, but what exactly are the dragonborn? I understand that they are mortals given the power of dragons by the gods, but where did they come from? and do they count as a separate race?

» Fri May 13, 2011 7:43 pm

I was wondering if all the previous dragonborn I'm aware of were the Setpim dynasty, does this mean that any non-Imperial race PCs would have some mixed blood ancestry, like the half orc gladiator in Oblivion? Has it been established whether beast races like Argonians and Khajit can breed successfuly with Imperials?

» Fri May 13, 2011 1:07 pm

unless the devs are purposely keeping us in the dark? As in maybe it's new information as what exactly they are?

» Fri May 13, 2011 7:39 am

Dragonborn explanation (possible spoilers):

Spoiler

The Dragonborn, in TES lore, are the bloodline descended from the original Nords/Imperials who mystically joined their blood with that of dragons. It was from this, and the Amulet of Kings seen in Oblivion, which contained the blood of Akatosh, that the emperors derived their power and rule. The Dragonborn were protected by an elite guard known as the Dragonguard, which eventually became the Blades. When Skyrim begins, 200 years after the Oblivion Crisis as it's now known to history, there are no (or very few) surviving Blades or Dragonborn. The empire is in strife, and both Nordic prophecies and the Elder Scrolls tell of the return of the first god, the creator and destroyer of the world, known to Imperials as the dragon Akatosh, and to the Nords as Alduin.

In ancient history, only the Dragonborn were able to "defeat" the dragons and prevent Alduin from devouring the world (which Imperials interpret as a covenant between Akatosh and to assure their rule. Evidently, they were wrong - or possibly intentionally deceiving the people of Cyrodiil, since in the trailer the speaker seems to know that they're coming and exactly what they intend to do - but we shall see...)

In Skyrim, at least based on what we know so far, you play as one of if not the last Dragonborn.

» Fri May 13, 2011 1:14 pm

So if an argonian is dragonborne... that means... they are also nord/imperial somehow?

» Fri May 13, 2011 2:44 pm

That would leave out elves/beast races(And I doubt they're being left out). Those nords/imperials may not have been the only dragonborn.

The Tsaesci also hunted/"ate" dragons.

» Fri May 13, 2011 5:24 am

Also don't forget that the blood bond between dragons and men was mystical in nature. It may not require interbreeding.

» Fri May 13, 2011 8:07 pm

thanks for the info, that helps, but then I don't understand how,*spoilers* if martin transforms into akatosh at the end of oblivion, akatosh didnt turn on the humans?

» Fri May 13, 2011 6:47 pm

Origins of the dragonborn haven't been fully explained yet. All we know is that it was once a mystical pact between humans and dragons or something, and it gave the mortal men powers comparable to the dragons, and that all races will be able to be the dragonborn. It could be a blessing from the dragons that gets passed through the bloodline, or something more physical like drinking their blood.

» Fri May 13, 2011 7:38 pm

Eh... May I conclude that Martin's transformation was an example of a powerful dragon shout? That even the last of the Septims had these abilities? If they were so powerful, why would they need such an extensive bodyguard as the Blades?

» Fri May 13, 2011 3:54 pm

Yes, further explanation than what I said isn't known (at least to my knowledge. I'm sure people more well versed in the lore can chime in.) But what I do know is that the binding of dragon blood to the dragonborn was mystical in nature, so it isn't strictly required that they be only Nord or Imperial (as is necessary in order for us to play as the ten races this time around,) and that as long as one of them sat upon the throne, Oblivion and the world of men would be separate.

The death of Uriel opened the gates. Martin sealed it by transmutating into an avatar of Akatosh (not Akatosh itself necessarily.) Maybe he willed himself to become stone to prevent Akatosh's coming. Maybe because the amulet of kings only contained some of the essence of Akatosh it could only exist briefly. Maybe it's what awakened them.

Either way... Akatosh/Alduin is returning now, apparently...

hmy:

» Fri May 13, 2011 9:08 am

well there was a mama dragon, then there was a papa mortal and they fell in love and then a little :hugs: then the mama had an egg that rolled straight down to prison while she slept. Eventually the egg hatched and the mama was killed by Alduin for her betrayal and the father eaten. That my friend is what a dragonborn is.

» Fri May 13, 2011 9:14 am

Eh... May I conclude that Martin's transformation was an example of a powerful dragon shout? That even the last of the Septims had these abilities? If they were so powerful, why would they need such an extensive bodyguard as the Blades?

I think Thu'um is its own thing. The Dragonborn are able to perform Thu'um, the dragon shouts, with greater ease than others. But you don't have to be a dragonborn to use the shouts, nor are all dragonborn able to use them. In fact, except for the graybeards, it was considered a lost art. What Martin did was he shattered the Amulet, releasing the power contained within. I certainly didn't hear him yell anything like a dragon shout at least

In fact, it may be that the later emperors, the ones after the notable dragonborn ones, may not have been dragonborn themselves. That would warrant a name change of the Dragonguard to the Blades, if their primary objective of guarding the Dragonborn changed to guarding their descendants. It would also explain why the Septims in Oblivion were complete weaklings in combat, how each of the Emperor's sons were killed, the Emperor himself, and how Martin helped little in combat with his fancy set of armor and weak sword arm

» Fri May 13, 2011 5:46 pm

The Dragonborn are descendents of St. Alessia who have the power to control dragons. Usually they're of the Imperial race but due to the couple thousands of years that seperated Alessia's agreement with Akatosh and the Present time of Skyrim It could be any of the 10 races.

The Dragonborn will be key in stopping Alduin from eliminating the plane of Mundus or whatever his goal is.

» Fri May 13, 2011 11:18 am

I was wondering if all the previous dragonborn I'm aware of were the Setpim dynasty, does this mean that any non-Imperial race PCs would have some mixed blood ancestry, like the half orc gladiator in Oblivion? Has it been established whether beast races like Argonians and Khajit can breed successfuly with Imperials?

There's a book which elaborates on how interracial breeding between races works in the Elder Scrolls, but it states that it is not known whether Khajiit and Argonians can interbreed with other races.

But I'd say that being a Dragonborn doesn't necessarily require being of a specific bloodline, since the player will be one, regardless of what race you choose, unless we are meant to assume that regardless of your choice of race, your character will have some Nord or Imperial blood. It may be that being a Dragonborn is more a metaphysical thing than a matter of bloodline. The origins of the Dragonborn do seem a little vague, in any case, but this may be because that will be revealed during Skyrim's story, and Bethesda does not want to spoil that, we'll see.

» Fri May 13, 2011 8:03 am

Dragonborn will likely be a matter of bloodline, but we'll probably find out that while the Nords and Imperials had their legends about the origins of the Dragonborn, the Argonians, elves and Khajiit also had legends about their people having gained the power of Dragons. The Imperial line was just one family line that had dragon blood amongst humans, but Dragonborn probably existed amongst all races....even if outsiders never knew of them.

» Fri May 13, 2011 5:55 pm

The Dragonborn are descendents of St. Alessia who have the power to control dragons. Usually they're of the Imperial race but due to the couple thousands of years that seperated Alessia's agreement with Akatosh and the Present time of Skyrim It could be any of the 10 races.

In this case, anyone playing a beast race character must be of mixed heritage and will have an Imperial ancestor somewhere in their family tree.

» Fri May 13, 2011 9:08 am

Sorry If this is such a noobish question and please try not flame me, but what exactly are the dragonborn? I understand that they are mortals given the power of dragons by the gods, but where did they come from? and do they count as a separate race?

Short answer - no one except Bethesda knows for certain.
Even the lore is dubious about this. The Imperial Cult's version is that the saint founder of the first Empire, Alless made a covenent with the dragon-god of time, Akatosh, in which her blood was intermingled with Akatosh's to create a union between the realm of mortals and gods. As a result, since she had dragon blood flowing through her veins, everyone descendand from her were "Dragonborn" emperors. But I've already posted on another thread that this is most likely a very skewed misinterpretation, and that we'll only find out for sure in Skyrim (which will be a major part of the intrigue).

» Fri May 13, 2011 8:16 am

thanks for the info, that helps, but then I don't understand how,*spoilers* if martin transforms into akatosh at the end of oblivion, akatosh didnt turn on the humans?

That was the Avatar of Akatosh, not Akatosh himself.

OP your quest is best asked in the Lore forum if you want a better answer!

» Fri May 13, 2011 4:52 pm

Eh... May I conclude that Martin's transformation was an example of a powerful dragon shout? That even the last of the Septims had these abilities? If they were so powerful, why would they need such an extensive bodyguard as the Blades?

No, you may not conclude such a thing. Martin Mantled Akatosh, 'tis a big difference.

» Fri May 13, 2011 11:30 am

Dragon Hunters of some sort, who wields godly powers to fight dragons. Still shady and mysterious because it's unknown whether they have any relation to Septim's dinasty.

» Fri May 13, 2011 10:24 am

Spoiler

We know that we play as the last dragonborn. Martin Septim was the last of his line, and it is unknown how our bloodline survived unknown for so long. The blades were nearly wiped out, there are very few that we still know of (1 to be exact). Akatosh and Alduin are not actually quite the same thing. Although they are both the dragon of time, they are not one and the same. Alessia made a pact with Akatosh that preventing it from attacking Nirn and placed her soul inside the amulet of kings alongside Akatosh's blood.

Dragonborn have the ability to speak the language of the dragons.

Dragon Hunters of some sort, who wields godly powers to fight dragons. Still shady and mysterious because it's unknown whether they have any relation to Septim's dinasty.

The Amulet of Kings could only be worn those who bore the blood of dragons. They are not dragon hunters by any means at all. Also, they have a DIRECT relationship to the Septim dynasty. The Septim bloodline was a dragonborn bloodline, St Alessia was the first.

» Fri May 13, 2011 6:48 am

No, you may not conclude such a thing. Martin Mantled Akatosh, 'tis a big difference.

Aha, interesting. Now would you be so kind to educate me on this please? It was a sincere question, because this really makes me wonder about things I've seen in Oblivion and the events before. Thank you.

» Fri May 13, 2011 6:55 pm

These people gifted by the gods (Shor) to combat dragons and rule empires. And what Vamphaery and Spectre IV said...

» Fri May 13, 2011 6:39 am

Aha, interesting. Now would you be so kind to educate me on this please? It was a sincere question, because this really makes me wonder about things I've seen in Oblivion and the events before. Thank you.

Mantling, or "walk like them until they walk like you," is basically when you mythically and symbolically imitate a god in such a way that you become them (and in becoming them, change them). Considering that the TES universe basically runs on myths and symbols, it works rather well. The Champion of Cyrodiil mantled Sheogorath, for example.