I absolutely love this. People say Bethesda's writing is terrible, yet there's clearly no "right" answer here.

The idea of a Minutemen/Railroad alliance is very tempting. On the surface it seems like the most moral way to go, albeit with a nice dose of logical fallacy with how the Railroad want to go about things. It would put the Commonwealth in a weaker state than the other options, but the potential to grow into an NCR like faction is there.

A Minutemen/Institute alliance could go really far too, although it's questionable whether you could reform the Institute enough to make a difference. You only have to look at the Brotherhood of Steel to see that one leader with moral aspirations can change the organisation short-term, but not necessarily invoke long-term changes. At least with a Minutemen/Railroad alliance you're invoking the right set of values from the conception stage; not trying to reform something that's been going for ages.

I can't imagine the Brotherhood of Steel would accept a long-term alliance with the Minutemen. At some point they'd simply annex the organisation and take over completely. They don't like sharing power. That said, if you don't mind the purging of Mutants/Ghouls/Synths then they're a pretty smart move tactically.

Actually Desdemona has the same voice actress as Aela the Huntress. Delphine was voiced by actress Joan Allen who is probably most famous for playing Pam Landy in the Bourne movies.

On topic I sided with the Railroad and the Minutemen.

I was never with the institute, they have simply done too much bad and the surface will never accept them, it will be like New Caprica on BSG.

I supported the Brotherhood until Maxon sent me to deal with Danse, he didn't care about what he had done as a whole or for the Brotherhood only what he was, clearly a bad guy.

I don't really like the Railroad, just seems too shortsighted and too specific. but I figured with the Institute gone them lacking a strong enemy and a steady supply of Synths to save they will end up shrinking in power and influence.

The Minutemen may be one of the weaker factions, but there clearly good. . .and having them refer to you as "General" never gets old.

Yeah, the Railroad will cease to exist after the Synths are freed.

However, I like to think the hundreds of Synths you've freed from the Institute will now be a faction which can help the Commonwealth rebuild.

I really wanted to side with none. They're all complete idiots that think their way is the only right/true way. No room for middle ground, unlike in Skyrim. Even Mass Effect. So I'm very surprised it's not possible to do that here. And if not we should at lest get to wipe them ALL out. Personally I think they're all deluded prats that have the best intentions, but that's just it, it's like politics 101. There's no one right way. Only what's right for each individual. Unless one denies another to be as they they are (that counts racist brotherhood fascists out). End of story. I'm still dying for a game where I can fight for "everyone wins because we all finally realize that after I beat some sense into your thick skills". Skyrim and ME offered a bit of that. 4 could have made great use out of Max's more racist side and I feel like the synth on a whole got left behind and overlooked when they could have had a great story about "Synths are people too" and such.

If it's possible then I haven't found a way yet. And I've already done a fair few playthroughs.

You can destroy all but the Minutemen. Finish the story with the Brotherhood, then have Preston open fire on them.

When I say all, I mean all. Burn the heretics!

Cough. Ahem. Getting a bit blood thirsty here. But yea, we really should have a "our side only" choice. That's what made 3 and even NV great, You could pick yourself or just go "Sod it, into the radioactive chamber you go you brotherhood scum". You had to fight Enclave or legion/NCR, but you didn't have to "side" with anyone but yourself. It was never forced upon the player. It kinda feels forced in 4. In fact, it is because you must side with a faction to complete the story. Where's my "infiltrate institute base on my own like a ninja and lone wolf it" quest? And the option to now blow them up to hell or join them at the end? A "walk away" choice might seem weak at first (Presented at the end of course after meeting Shaun and discovering a way to blow up the place), but it can actually be a nice ending if the logic is "because let them fight amongst themselves. They're all wrong. Because war never changes." Someone tell me that wouldn't be a great path to take in the story. It sounds perfect to me. The quest? "Travel through the radioactive Sea with sudden high activity and all factions fighting everywhere in the world. Get to safety and isolate yourself". or something.

As far as I'm concerned the Brotherhood of Steel is the only faction with humanity's survival at heart and the means to keep fighting the monstrosities long term.

Even though there are former humans that didn't even choose the be a mutant and become a target just for simply existing? Many of the brotehrhood quite clearly will shoot on sight going by their comments.

What's the point of saving humanity if in the process it turns you into a monster at heart? You can be a human at heart in a monster form and a human with a monsters heart. Now if mutants and synths get treated better (eg: ones that want to help better the world and humanity as well as mutantity) then I can get on board. 'Till then, they're as bad as the Enclave in my book. Nothing justifies genocide. And the argument of wanting to be saved "by them" or not can also be made. What if people have gotten used to being in a wasteland and its all they know now? In that light the Brotherhood can be invaders, not liberators.

There will of course be both sides of the fence. Those that want aid should be aided. But it should not be forced on all. In a way, this makes each faction both right and wrong at the same time. Because they all follow slimier logic. Though the railroads at least seek to give synth equal rights. But who knows, perhaps some synth actually like being bossed around. Subs are a thing after all. And their leader is a right bossy [censored] that acts like things should only go her way. eg: You must give me that synth chip or forget me helping you which would still help free synths regardless. If only there was an option to stomp on it then and there. They'd probably all start shooting but it would be worth it.

One thing's sure, It's never simple. Even though it really is because each individual matters. No faction realizes that. Brotherhood loath mutants, Railroad loath slavery (it needs to exist for some, morals aside. Some slaves can actually want to be as such if treated well and fairly). Minutemen loath "bad guys" and think good only matters in a harsh world (people become scared and then turn into raiders. It's never simple as "bad") And institute are pompous gits that think bettering humanity is tearing families apart. The needs of the many don't always outweigh the needs of the few. Maybe for Shaun and his lackeys, but not for me, no sir. And I get made an enemy for a difference of beliefs with my own son? What?

So that's... Brotherhood. Railroad. Minutemen. Institute. All seem "bad" to me. And when I say bad I mean "their own way only". Not evil, which while bad, must have room to co-exist for their to be a peaceful outcome for all as it is subjective. Just like "good". That's why "talk your way to victory" with the legion in NV is so great. It emphasizes that somehow. We don't necessarily need it empathized in the same way, but empathized none the less.

So, 'each individual matters', but your preferred options would be 'destroy everyone' or 'do nothing and leave'? Hmm, whatever floats your boat, I guess. Personally I'd rather make hard and unavoidably imperfect choices.

Also, sure, there are synths that are perfectly fine with the Institute. I bet X6-88 likes being bossed around, at least he never indicated he wanted freedom.

That's covered in the Railroad quest actually.

If you ask him, Z-1 says quite a few Synths prefer a safe life as servants in the Institute versus an uncertain one in the Commonwealth.

They just wish they weren't treated as machines.

Life in the Institute probably wouldn't change if they were just paid in caps. However, the fear of being brain-wiped or killed when they're modeled out has driven more than half of them to want to fight for their freedom directly.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but at no point does X6-88 ever express any desire for more agency, or different treatment, or even vaguely suggest he has any desires or preferences at all, beyond serving the Institute. He acts like a programmed machine, and there's not even a hint that any of it is due to fear or ambition - he was made that way so that's how he operates. And there's no indication he's an atypical gen 3 either.

I wouldn't know, I've never taken him as a companion or talked with him. Z-1 talks in general about Synths as well as the whole of their number.

I very doubt Coursers are included, though.

Coursers being Synths made/trained to kill/capture other Synths kind of are a poor example for "mainstream" Synths, though.

I take it you didn't play the Railroad line?

Not yet, no. I played a little of it, just enough to roleplay it as my BoS character infiltrating the Railroad. They're certainly a bit too welcoming for an underground organization...

But what I mean isn't that all gen 3's are like X6, rather that they have the potential to be. If he's what he is, it shouldn't take much more than a tweak in the programming to make the others just like him. (Though that's probably a bit of iffy writing on part of Bethesda, I get that they wanted this Blade Runner-esque moral conflict, but honestly if the Institute can program X6s, why would they keep making the inferior 'I gained sentience and wanna be free' versions?).

If they all make no attempt to compromise, then yes. If people go "It's not possible to co-exist (not to be mistaken with making everyone happy), then the simple fact of the matter is that none of them care enough to recognize the needs of the individual and only care about their own groups, and are therefor not worthy of my symphony. Minority matters as much as majority. Something I learned the hard way. And I see no reason we can't all work towards a world where there's a co-existence free of borders and territory and where we can all truly be ourselves free of judgment. Though still perhaps a strong dislike for other ways. "Right for them but not for us" as I like to say.

We would all, of course, still oppose each other in that world at times because of conflicting paths (even violence and chaos is needed for some at times), but there would be an understanding of each others paths that each person takes. Cao Cao and Liu Bei from the Han Dynasty had great respect for each other, even when they opposed each other due to their different natures and ways of doing things. Some American and Japanese soldiers also realized this, despite being enemies on the battlefield (WW2). The whole "honer" thing and all. I recall two of them ending up as friends after the war. One of the blighters stayed on an island thinking the war had been going on for decades. Poor bugger. Honer demanded it of him though. I don't get it and I think it's a bit silly to do that, but the right path for him and all.

Than it could be argued that no individual matters to you, since all those factions do have people questioning the direction their leaders are taking them in, but who are powerless to do anything about it.

You'd be surprised how many people actually can be none judgmental and see things from a co-existing point of view. In life that is.

Unfortunately, that's not the people in charge. It's not the people questioning the factions, it's the factions not attempting to get a bigger picture. For example, why are raiders raiders? Hate? Fear? Do the factions even bother to check when possible or just put them down on sight? Kellog would be a good example of how he matters, despite being "evil". Sometimes people just stop caring because it hurts too much to care, you know. I think that matters and is worthy of at least keeping in mind.

Not once has a faction leader kept such a thing in mind. Only that doctor did. And hell, do the people opposed to the factions bother to think why they might be the way they are? Nope. Sided with brotherhood. Put the Railroad down. Shoot on sight, don't let them surrender. Haven't sided with the Railroad yet but I can't imagine them being any better. "Look, soldiers. Damn each individuals reasons. Don't attempt to convert and use diplomacy, just kill".

Attack the body and it leaves a scar. Attack the hearts and minds and you implant an idea. And ideas are immortal. Perhaps it's their simple minded tactics/methods that I don't care for. And, you know, they all aim to go "Judge institute, blow them up". Single forced choice every time with every faction unless you joined the institute. Who would have you kidnapping babies from their parents. They're all judgmental. The only thing I judge is judgment itself, for I believe none have the right to do so. Oppose? yes. Judge? No. With hate and malice? Maybe. Thinking it's the wrong way to go about things? Never. Safe "wrong for me" perhaps. Actually, that last one can be both depending on the situation.

Even Shaun gets judgmental on my ass. A difficult conversation (speech check) where the two reach an understanding despite the grim moments would have been nice. Instead I'm treated with "get out" regardless and can't make the choice to not blow up the place at that point. Surely you can understand why a "walk away" option would be nice at that point, perhaps taking that device that blows up the reactor with me.

Do not know for endgame, but here is gonna be Alyssa's opinion on the factions (headcanon):

• Minutemen-Good people, is currently the 'general' and trying to fix The Castle.
• Institute-eggheads, not worth her time/dislike.
• Brotherhood of Steel-dislike, reminds her of hubby, and never liked the whole power armor thing herself (finds it to be too heavy to be a good stealth girl in)
• Railroad-Not like, she is gong to find them and help them, but the whole help synths thing is not for her (they are fancy machines, like people in general).

Yet wouldn't your desired 'kill'em all' option be doing the exact same thing you despise the current factions for doing?

That's not how it works as you find out. Synths are given skill sets from the outset and imperatives to obey the Institute but they don't have to obey them. Also, the Institute can't repogram their Synths. They can only wipe their memories to "factory default."

Then start over.

Being a Paladin of the BoS who decided to join the Railroad after Danse, my character was kind of blown away by the fact the Railroad has NO IDEA Synths are hated by the BoS.

They even use you being a Paladin in the BOS as a point in your favor for recruitment.

Yea, but it should be my choice. Not because they said so. Freedom of choice man. It's like the game Undertale. Run away at the start, get to decide on your own if you want to stay or not. Etc. This is a decision pressured on you. Which is actually a good thing when it's presentered. At least in games and films. Not so much in life at times.

Having those moments of pressure is fine, but the best in such situations is made clear when you get to decide for yourself, as well as any involved parties. "Walking away because [censored] this" or "kill them all because they all want to use me or because I feel like it" would be myself. If a faction went "Kill everyone", I wouldn't feel in control of my own actions if I actually did follow through with that (I imagine the followers of the apocalypse would attempt this). So I'd probably try to force them all to hold hands and sing a happy song instead under a rainbow. Now isn't that evil?

I think it was even possible to do things in Skyrim without committing yourself too far fully one way or another, except for stopping that evil dragon so the world won't end. But there's a bit of a difference between politics and world/universe wide genocide. Still even on that large a scale, having the choice to end things "badly" (which may well not be "that bad" depending on plot and character development) would still be a good thing.

'Course, then you get "I seem to pressure you but am manipulating you to do the other thing" which is where it gets a little technical. Then I'd have to go to the hassle of rooting them all out or just not bother with them, since I can't be used unless they want me to remain idle. Oh boy. Anyway, in general, in the none manipulative sense, all of the before said stuff. In the manipulative sense? All I can say is [censored] manipulation.

Coursers are just Gen 3 synths that have been trained to be coursers/ killing machines. I'm not sure how they choose these coursers. They probably choose gen 3 synths with suitable base memories/personalities. You can see that their training is a bit imperfect when you see how much personality X6-88 has after you get max affinity with him. They also choose synths with suitable base frames. Mayor McDonough requested to become a Courser after his services in Diamond City, but one of the scientists (I believe Ayo) mocks McDonough's request in front of you (without McDonough actually there to listen) because of his body size. He also says something along the lines of Mayor McDonough not being suitable for being a Courser just based off of the fact that he wants to be a Courser.

I imagine Coursers are typically emotionless sociopathic killing machines and are ill suited for infiltration.

Wait until you hear X6-88's max affinity dialogue. In hindsight, what he said wasn't that shocking, but the pure contrast to the way he normally speaks was hilarious for me.

Although I definitely agree with you in that the Institute could regress very easily once you, the PC, dies, it's important to remember the Institute's goals. Yes, in their own way they're a menace. They replace people with synths to act as spies, betray their own to protect themselves, and so on and so forth. Sadly, these are things that both the Brotherhood and Railroad are perfectly willing to do. The difference is that the Institute is far less dogmatic about it. If I gave the Railroad or Brotherhood a long, well reasoned explanation as to why they're wrong, they'd probably shoot at me. The individuals of the Institute would at least explain their positions and why they feel the way they do. I guess that's my point. Each faction uses its own dogma to explain away their deeds. For the Brotherhood, killing off everything that isn't human is acceptable, as they're "controlling technology". For the Railroad, killing off humans is cool because they're "freeing the synths". For the Institute, kidnapping and experimentation is fine because it's "to better humanity". Except that dogma belonged largely to Father, and not the Institute as a whole. I personally believe that even Father knows his method isn't correct, however, that's the only method he's capable of. It's as if his isolation has resulted in psychopathic tendencies, and that he actually understands why those tendencies are bad. That's partially why he chose the PC for the position. The Institute, despite all of their questionable methods, truly seem to want to help humanity. There is just a major emotional disconnect.

Remind me how destroying any chance of a united Commonwealth government, nearly destroying the Minutemen, and expelling all ghouls from Diamond City helps humanity?