What happen to the Dwemer? : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Thu May 03, 2012 8:25 pm

Dwemer-Dreamer. They got Zero-Summed.

Likewise, Falmer-Thalmor. YSgraMoR-YSMR-Ysmir. Therefore the Dragonborn will kill all the Thalmor, the survivors being taken in by Redguards and mutated.

» Thu May 03, 2012 7:37 pm

"Dwemer" is a misnomer because they're not actually Mer. In reality, they were a strain of kwama whose intelligence surpassed those in the highest echelons of Alinor. That's an ash-washing done by Vehk after he knocked up a kwama queen. To shirk his fatherly responsibilities, he devolved them and enslaved them, consigning them to their fate as livestock. The Dunmer have forgotten that the kwama were once their equals or superiors, but the kwama haven't.

» Thu May 03, 2012 12:52 pm

"Dwemer" is a misnomer because they're not actually Mer. In reality, they were a strain of kwama whose intelligence surpassed those in the highest echelons of Alinor. That's an ash-washing done by Vehk after he knocked up a kwama queen. To shirk his fatherly responsibilities, he devolved them and enslaved them, consigning them to their fate as livestock. The Dunmer have forgotten that the kwama were once their equals or superiors, but the kwama haven't.

Uh, source? This is the first I've heard any of this..

» Thu May 03, 2012 6:17 pm

Uh, source? This is the first I've heard any of this..

It's true, man. Look it up or whatever.

» Thu May 03, 2012 11:42 am

It's true, man. Look it up or whatever.

Thought as much.. You're not funny, dude.

» Thu May 03, 2012 5:46 am

"Dwemer" is a misnomer because they're not actually Mer. In reality, they were a strain of kwama whose intelligence surpassed those in the highest echelons of Alinor. That's an ash-washing done by Vehk after he knocked up a kwama queen. To shirk his fatherly responsibilities, he devolved them and enslaved them, consigning them to their fate as livestock. The Dunmer have forgotten that the kwama were once their equals or superiors, but the kwama haven't.

Ha! Just as I suspected.

» Thu May 03, 2012 9:44 pm

Why would they wipe themselves from existence?

Unless they're like the mayans, then they would've had NO definitive reason to commit mass suicide.

They didn't do it on purpose. They tried to transform themselves into a single god and they failed. The Numidium was the result of all that.

» Thu May 03, 2012 6:13 am

Speaking of Dwemer, do you think Yagrum Barnum scuttled out of Vvardenfell before Red Mountain went boom?

Good question. Unfortunately, Yagrum hasn't appeared either in name or body in any Elder Scrolls game since Morrowind, so no one can say.

» Thu May 03, 2012 11:08 am

Good question. Unfortunately, Yagrum hasn't appeared either in name or body in any Elder Scrolls game since Morrowind, so no one can say.

It may depend on whether or not Fyr hightailed it out of there and brought his Dwemer friend with him. Unless Yagrum left Vvardefell prior to the Red year.

» Thu May 03, 2012 7:29 am

They didn't do it on purpose. They tried to transform themselves into a single god and they failed. The Numidium was the result of all that.

No, they did exactly what they wanted to. They wanted to bind themselves to the skin of Numidium to ascend to Aetherius. They wanted to use Numidium because the body used only had to be close to the body of a divine being, not exact. When the heart of Lorkhan was struck with the tools, they were bound to Numidium's skin, but it's unclear what happened to them after that.

This is all explained on the imperial library website.

» Thu May 03, 2012 11:03 am

No, they did exactly what they wanted to.

You misunderstand me. They did intend to bind themselves into the Numidium. There's no argument there. But, they did not intend to destroy themselves, which they essentially did when they were left trapped as a part of Numidium with no way to control it.

» Thu May 03, 2012 6:59 pm

I think it was in Vivec's teachings (the book) where Vivec told that he didn't feel Dwemer with-in Aurbis. And yes he was wearing water mask. This is interesting as it makes me think that Dwemer did go into their own "pocket realm" in outer Void along with Magne-Ge. This is part of universe of which Vivec knows nothing/very little as he mentions in that same book, or knows but can't find words to describe what is in there.

If they would be in Numidium's skin surely Vivec would feel them, wouldn't he/she?

» Thu May 03, 2012 2:42 pm

I think it was in Vivec's teachings (the book) where Vivec told that he didn't feel Dwemer with-in Aurbis. And yes he was wearing water mask. This is interesting as it makes me think that Dwemer did go into their own "pocket realm" in outer Void along with Magne-Ge. This is part of universe of which Vivec knows nothing/very little as he mentions in that same book, or knows but can't find words to describe what is in there.

If they would be in Numidium's skin surely Vivec would feel them, wouldn't he/she?

What?

Vivec mentions through direct dialogue with the Nerevarine that he does not sense the Dwemer in "the timeless divine world outside of mortal time." There's no reason to believe he's using his Water Face. Also, the Aurbis includes Aetherius, the Void, all Outer Realms, and everything.

Vivec doesn't sense Dwemer because they aren't Dwemer anymore. They're the golden soul flesh of the Brass God.

» Thu May 03, 2012 1:54 pm

It may depend on whether or not Fyr hightailed it out of there and brought his Dwemer friend with him. Unless Yagrum left Vvardefell prior to the Red year.

Since Yagrum had corprus disease, and the only man or mer known to have been cured was the Nevarine I kind of doubt he was still around. Fyr might have survived, and mer have been known to live to be 1000 either he or one of his "daughters" might still be around.

» Thu May 03, 2012 8:38 am

Since Yagrum had corprus disease, and the only man or mer known to have been cured was the Nevarine I kind of doubt he was still around. Fyr might have survived, and mer have been known to live to be 1000 either he or one of his "daughters" might still be around.

Divayth Fyr's Tetra-millenial birthday was in the rear-view mirror by the time the Nerevarine came knocking on his front door. He may have been mortal in the sense that he could be killed, but I highly doubt he would die from anything else save boredom.

» Thu May 03, 2012 8:27 am

Thought as much.. You're not funny, dude.

Actually, it's pretty hilarious.

» Thu May 03, 2012 9:00 am

Actually, it's pretty hilarious.

Yeah, if you're like 14 and still think trolling is funny.

» Thu May 03, 2012 7:05 am

Yeah, if you're like 14 and still think trolling is funny.

It's hardly trolling, it's a joke, and an amusing parallel to Haute's Minotaur story.

» Thu May 03, 2012 10:54 am

THIS! IS! TAM! RUGH!

» Thu May 03, 2012 8:31 pm

Since Yagrum had corprus disease, and the only man or mer known to have been cured was the Nevarine I kind of doubt he was still around. Fyr might have survived, and mer have been known to live to be 1000 either he or one of his "daughters" might still be around.

Fyr was over 4000 years old. He's far above and beyond the normal mer lifespan--which, by the way, is not nearly as great as 1000. Also, I believe Divayth Fyr administered the cure to Yagrum Bagarn after the successful cure of the Nerevarine.

Yagrum, on the other hand, seems to have regained much in the past. He still shows signs of corprus, but his memory seems to slowly be coming back from time to time. He spends quite a bit of time on his own now and wishes to remain alone. I am sure that glimpses of his past, coming freshly back to him, give him much to ponder over. I feel for my old friend. I only wish there was more I could do. A temper seems to rattle him every now and then and I have instructed my sister-wives to leave him be. In time, he will come to and understand what fate holds for him.

And interesting thing.... Yagrum confronted me after my arrival from the council, and wished to know if I still had the Tools in my possession. Upon hearing that the Hortator had taken leave and carried the items off with him, Yagrum seemed quite upset. What is going in that mind of my old friend's. I shall keep a close eye on him, for I worry about his well being.

- From http://www.imperial-library.info/content/sotha-sils-last-words

And, come on. The Last Living Dwarf, who is, by no coincidence, immortal and now regaining his memory who also is anxious to get his hands on Kagrenac's Tools. To completely write him out of the story inconsequentially by Red Mountain exploding is one of the most foolish things a story-writer could do.

I say we haven't heard the last of Yagrum Bagarn.

» Thu May 03, 2012 12:21 pm

I say we haven't heard the last of Yagrum Bagarn.

Yeah. If he got the tools, then I think whatever happens would be the most important thing since the Red Year. The return of the Dwemer from their bronze-soulskin? Numidium emerging from it's inert state to become self moving and sentient? Yagrum ascending ala the Tribunal? Whatever the case, it would be something awesome to see.

» Thu May 03, 2012 8:42 am

If the Tools could make the skin, can the tools Unmake the skin?

What if an Elder scroll was used to reverse time? (Dragon breakesque?)

» Thu May 03, 2012 6:56 am

If the Tools could make the skin, can the tools Unmake the skin?

What if an Elder scroll was used to reverse time? (Dragon breakesque?)

Using an Elder Scroll at Numidium would probably result in crazy stuff. Numidium constantly breaks time in it's vicinity (Alinor surrendered in a hour, but Numidium seiged it from the Mythic until the 5th Era).

» Thu May 03, 2012 12:53 pm

I reckon its possible for the Dwemer to return and not obliterate the Lore. Perhaps not as they were. But I think its possible (and probable given the interest and Bethesda's penchant for heresy...)

» Thu May 03, 2012 11:36 am

I reckon its possible for the Dwemer to return and not obliterate the Lore. Perhaps not as they were. But I think its possible (and probable given the interest and Bethesda's penchant for heresy...)

It is possible. But, I think, it would be a bad narrative decision. And that's what is most important.