One of the things that I noticed after I got my Pip-boy after exploring vault 111 for 1h hour and 10 minutes,was when I was looking for the karma information and LO and BEHOLD there was NO KARMA....I dont know about you about one of the requirements for A ROLE PLAYING GAME is to choose between being good or bad....or neutral... I always play three different character types when playing through a role playing game...evil like the devil.....good like God....neutral like a king.... when I was playing Fallout Capital Wasteland and there was achievements to accomplish on being good evil and neutral, I indeed created three characters to fit the different karma types.... But now in Fallout New England Wasteland there is no moral compass which for me makes the experience less of a rollplaying game and more of a boring shooter that has no moral justification....and I have this sinking feeling the conversation trees will also be less of a choice between good and evil and it will be just moral ambuguity....which makes the game boring and no fun to be able to choose between good and evil....hopefully the DLC you BRING BACK KARMA!!!!!!

It's gone, hopefully forever.

Their is, your decisions affect the world around you the way you want them to, it is up to you to live with those decisions you make, weather they are good or bad is up to you and weather people die or not is also up to you

It was a stupd stat with stupid consquences.

What? Did the karma system improve your role playing experience? :S

How?

I always felt that system was stupid. Just because there isn't a popup message everytime you're doing something "bad" doesn't mean you can't do something "bad". You can still choose to do the bad and good things, I don't need the game to tell me what's bad and what's good.

I hated karma in new vegas. I could kill raiders and get good karma but if I looted them I got bad karma.

Dose not bother me I play the game based on how I would handle the situation in real life and disregard the karma

It was a stupid system that made no sense

Just so long as there is a reputation system at play so as npc's remember your actions and act accordingly. Then no you don't need a swinging pendulum to tell you whether you are behaving yourself or not. Unfortunately developers don't seem to bother with that anymore. Thats not to say that the game is not enjoyable... it is, and I have accepted that this is the way things are now. I just feel it is a bit of a shame, as there was so much potential for games to expand on that mechanic.

Yeah, one removal i'm not sad to see gone. The reputation system is far better.

I am glad to see the dropping of Karma. I disliked it from the beginning of FO3 since I could go on a bad karma rampage then just give the beggar in front of megaton a bunch of pure water to make myself angelic again.

On the eighth day Tod said to Buddha this whole Karma things is bunk right and Buddha agreed so it was cut.

Good to see it go. I would get good karma for things I was RP as doing for pure self interest. The Karma system couldn't account for player motive and should be gone. I haven't seen reputation in the game but that would be something I am for as it describes how other NPCs judge your actions.

Karma does not make sense in a post-apocalyptic setting. Like they said in Narcos, good and evil is a relative term.

It's gone along with the rest of the roleplaying elements of the game.
Also fallout is not a post apocalyptic game.

Mods'll fix it.

I'd say a nuclear war, the aftermath is correctly considered post apocalyptic unless there is some other definition of that term I am unaware of.

I always felt Karma was immensely stupid.

Karma didn't have enough of itself to make a return.

I'm glad karma is gone.

I know anyone whose played Fallout for a long time will get angry at me for saying that but hear me out:

Morality is extremely difficult to handle in video games. There's always gonna be wiggle room or gray area and the game can't account for the motivation behind your actions.

I would have prefered karma to be reworked. For it to work more like a reputation system for each faction where you can have positive karma with the institute, but negative karma with the railroad etc. I ALWAYS prefer games to improve upon existing systems rather than remove them, but honestly in this case I'm fine with it just not existing anymore. Even Obsidian more or less gave up on karma in New Vegas.

That said, Bethesda should have replaced the karma system with SOME way to make the world respond to your choices.

I'd like to know whether one can still side with the 'bad' factions like raiders. In New Vegas I remember entering the vault inhabited by raiders and having the option of either helping them or wiping out the vault. There were also the Great Khans who could be made into allies, and I'm sure other factions I'm forgetting. In FO4 I obviously have not had enough time to discover nearly everything, but I've noticed every raider or seemingly hostile faction is just that instantly upon coming across them. I haven't tried equipping raider gear to see if it makes a difference yet, but it would be cool to find some groups that aren't following the 'shoot first' mentality besides settlers and the BoS.

I don't miss Karma as the mechanic we had before, but I'm rather bummed there don't really seem to be any morally reprehensible actions for me to commit so far. In FO3 you got out of the Vault and the Megaton bomb was right there, waiting for you. I haven't found anything like that in 4 yet. Hopefully I will, but I'm no longer certain the option to be a bad person is an unremovable Fallout staple, the way I was before release.

Morality doesn't have to be fair, and one can do works with good intentions, and have damning unintended consequences; these can be both positive and/or negative.

*Think of the thief that tries to help his accomplices escape capture, and loses the loot in an orphanage during their chase.
*Think of the hero who booby traps a bandit cave, only to return to find injured townsfolk that had gone their to route the bandits.

It doesn't have to be fair, which is why I think karma should have been reworked into a reputation system. This would reflect people's PERCEPTIONS of you for better or worse. If you go on a rampage in a settlement, your karma with them will go down and they'll become hostile for the rest of the game. If you help out another faction your karma with them will go up.

I think there were better solutions than just scrapping the system entirely and making it so the world doesn't respond to your moral choices at all.

It's an old topic. Myself, I would rather the game implement both. A public reputation, and a game monitored karma ~that doesn't even have to be seen by the player ~but would be fine if it was.

This might allow for characters like Captain Amazing [in the Mystery Men film], where he's a real jerk, but the public adores him by reputation.
This could also allow for a witness system; where anyone who leaves the scene may spread word of it publicly; (affecting the PC's reputation one way or the other).

On the secret side, the game engine would have recorded the PC looting everyone's dressers and closets as they explore the world on a kleptomaniacal road trip.
, and/or when they robbed lone travelers in the wastes ~and left no witnesses. The engine could use intentionally use this to effect, towards the occasional 'what goes around comes around'.

Also: The two (possibly conflicting) scores could be used in NPC disposition... Where one's reputation precedes ~but the NPC may have doubts about it.

In the original Fallout, the Luck stat affected every random chance in the game.
Karma could do the same for social situations.

From what I've seen so far it's exactly the opposite. I'm not too far in the game yet but these are my impressions so far. Went past Concord and exploring the wasteland currently.

-Until now I haven't been able to make any decisions other than drop/take the quest.

-Many of the npcs I tried to kill are immortal.

-I am trying my best to be evil, rude, the worst I can be etc and I am getting the same responses that I got by picking any other dialog option!

-The one liners you pick are often misleading. For example I wanted to decline the quest to save the Concord people. One-liner was "cruel word" (seemed the most seemingly rude/heartless option I could pick like "tough luck"). Picked it and my character said "it's a cruel world out there, sorry" in a sympathetic tone! Seriously...?

-Except not being able to "be the person you want to be" as I explained earlier, there seem to be zero consequences. So I said I wouldn't save them from the supposed imminent attack, they dramatically said that we won't survive etc but nothing happened. They didn't die, the raiders didn't attack and kill them after a while - the quest was "frozen" for you to take it.

-So I did take the quest tried to kill them but they were immortal! Nice eh?

-The game hands you a minigun and power armor (the most powerful classic fallout weapon) from the very start of the game. The power armor is damaged and you can't use it much at the start but the minigun stays.

-As for the scripted power armor fight, I thought I was playing Farcry for a while there.