Blowing up safes and locked doors?
Placing EMP charges on electrical locks to fry the lock?
And we always have reverse pickpocketing grenades.


They could, but it doesn't sound like enough to balance out the pro's and con's.

I said they could make them do that, not that they do it now.



Sometimes I like to play the scurrying cockroach kind of character that is hard to kill. :bolt:

In all fairness, there are those who want combat to be easier, they are in the game to be entertained by the story and the experience, and combat can sometimes get in the way for them. The folks I am talking about are like my parents, they like the story and exploring, but they don't want to deal with the mechanics of battle so much. Get in, get it done and get it over with is how they prefer it. This does not mean they are not bloodthirsty, hearing my mom talk about fragging super mutants is cool. However, if you make the battles too challenging for her, then she will lose interest. I think a number of casual gamers are like that. Make the battles just challenging enough, but not so much I got to sweat about it is how some like it.

So make this and some other choices part of a hardcoe Combat suite of things the player can choose. That way people can tune the experience. Like with hardcoe Mode. Only better and more fun.

Something like that. And blowing outhouses to spread [censored] all over the settlement.



Fair enough, I guess. If your mother approves, so will I.

The HC mode is probably a good place for it -- it just shouldn't become a general dumping ground for features that are suddenly considered too "HC" by some, there is always the difficultyslider.

Talking about HC mode, some more hefty RPG mechanics could well be dumped there... no problem.

The slider could adjust this. All it is a global variable, so as you move the slider to harder, you back up more slowly. You could also throw in you need more gun skills to use the better guns effectively, explosives do more damage to you/companions instead of just adjusting damage dealt/received.

Err....no?

Why should a game's combat experience be relying on players to adjust themselves with a slider, instead of in game stat/item/perk? Inf fact, isn't game about play within these set of rules? How is adjusting those rules in between improve the game?

As for splinting skill, in general, isn't a good idea; I rather they actually come up with new skills that can't really be handled otherwise. For example, Science split into Mechanics (Merge repair with this one) Electronics, Hacking and Chemistry. While Repair is essentially Mechanics now, so rename is appropriate. Chemistry could be handled by explosive and Medicine (I guess Science requirement in crafting is to balance out the fact that Medicine/Explosive make those craft item more effective). That leaves Electroics...which probably meaningless unless you could have hacked in terminals in the first place.

Exceptional electronics skill could be applied to lock picking when its an electronic lock (that cannot be opened with picks).

It could also be applied to crafting/modifying (crude) energy weapons (like tasers and cattleprods, or such) or other electronical gadgets - should such (the crafting part) ability be in the game to begin with, that is.

The fact that electronic are heavily link to Fallout robotics I think they should fall under the same skill set.

I can see those skill types being affected by chained perks.
However 3+ skill sets where one is doing the job, would be a nightmare to implement.
You would then have to take into account every weapon or at least general one like "blade one handed".
Change the skill points to a wholly new system to make this practical a 5 - 10 rating, 1 - 3 points per level.
Acomadate stats into it, do they boost skills, or do they add points in the skills that require them as a focus.
Intelligence would luckily get a nerf, charisma will get boosted.

All are reasons for it, however the sheer scale is more suited to P&P than a CRPG.
Not to mention even minor tweaks get endless rants, a full overhaul will be a schism of the universe to some.

Perks however would be easy to choose how to specialise.
Where you want to branch too.
Add in dialogue for most of them, tweek them to effect gameplay.
Give the player the optiion and a reason to specialise and not just make a combat monster.
More will do so, and maybe fewer will complain about having to nerf themselves.

That's a mod of mine in my SIG. :tops:

Skill requirements to make and combine the components for a Taser shotgun shell. (http://www.taser.com/products/law/Pages/TASERXREP.aspx)

The video shows insta-shock paralysis, but the current version does stat checks on the target with a pinch of randomness.
They may or may not fall, and when they do, the time they are knocked out varies on the intensity of the hit.
(and they are extra damaging to robots)

Another use for Electronics is of course quest specifics.
Example, you want to infiltrate an okay tech base of a faction, with electronics you know how to work the wires and can cut the power, disabling all equipment in there that is supported by electricity. (Computers, turrets, electronic locks, et cetera)
You can of course turn the power back on after you're done.

Another example.
There is a pretty awesome mounted gun (Think Howitzer Cannon but more high tech) that a faction has, by rewiring the cables you can make this thing stop working, you can set up a trap and make it so that this thing overloads in power and blows up, or you can use it as an alternative to firing the thing.

Yknow, quest specifics.

And as other have said: Crafting energy ammo, electronic lockpicks and other electricity powered items.

While leaving Hacking alone?

If you do migrate some of the things Science do to Repair, Explosive and Medicine, what you have left is Hacking and Electronics. And you suggest some Electronic locks....so Hacking would be used even less.

Fallout doesn't have teh interweb to hack you know.

Actually... the Enclave were said to have had access to all vault-tec terminals and Pipboys (like a big nation wide LAN that included all of the vaults).

Remember they were connected to the internal network at the nuclear reactor in Gecko.

Hacking a computer means you know how to bypass the code.
An electronic padlock on the other hand requires you to open up the padlock and cross the wires correctly. (I'm probably talking out of my ass here though but I've seen some of this in movies. )

And well, Science and Repair gets a merge for Mechanics which is basically Repair + some more.
But Chemistry is it's own skill set where you can create drugs, acid, poison and gas vials and use it on certain areas for quests, it's not to be merged with Medicine, medicine means you're a doctor or nurse or whatever, but this does not mean you know that chemical component blue with chemical component #43 gives you Adrenaline.

So Hacking means hacking all computers in the game as well as hacking turrets with a computer interface. (You know how to press the right keys on the keyboard to gain access to locked files)
Electronics means you know how to re-route wires to your pleasure and that you know how to charge energy cells and stuff. (Cutting power to a building and disabling all turrets and alarms for example)
Mechanics is Repair + some more. (And if vehicles are added (See the vehicle implementation thread) then Mechanics would serve other functions as well.)
And Chemistry is a crafting skill primarily, mostly used for drugs or acid/gas/poison vials but also has it's moments in certain areas.
(This removes Repair and Science skills)

All skills are viable choices IMO.

The original games seemingly had the PC restricted to a general range of skill expertise, they could approach the fringe extreme, but were never a really PHD level in anything. Myron was, and could devise drugs, and that savant in the basemant that could rig and improve weaponry, but in general the PC was no top level specialist in anything that was not in keeping with being a general adventurer. Nothing too overly skilled or specialized... that was left for non-adventuring NPCs ~player resources.

I'd have preferred for the series to remain that way.

There is only one Macgyver

Yep. http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/Gizmojunk/Killian.jpg :laugh:

I just don't see the use in having all these weapons sub-categorized that far. I just don't see the advantage except for purely flavor and appeasing people who for realisms sake think these weapons should have different training.
I'd be okay with Big Guns coming back, but it would either be a skill you take to use heavy equipment of a certain weapon skill (advertised as a secondary combat skill) or have a more viable range (start say with a weak machine gun and say grenade launchers and move up).


Didn't say I like the way they went with Medicine in the end, I'd rather have that going from Medicine 0-50 would equate to first aid like benefits (minor healing advantage) while going above it meant going into doctor territory (healing crippled limbs preforming more complex medical procedure in skill checks).

I'd be actual in favour of graduation with milestones opening up certain new things.
Say lock-picks. At skill 0-25 you can use a simple bobbypin to open up a padlock. How close on target you need to be and how quickly those pins break is depended on skill. After 25 you can use a lockpicking set with which you can open simple internal locks as well as padlocks until 50 where more complex locks are now available to you with a more advanced lockpicking sets which continues at the next 75 and 100 (electronic locks?).

This. I just don't see any value in splitting weapons into those tiny categories. Fallout games take a long time to complete, the average player makes what 1-4 playthroughs? That means they are going to miss huge chuncks of development - who is going to mess around with a single weapon skill. Basically means the devs wasted their time. If anything I would like to see the merging of Unarmed and Melee.

As for Big Guns, make in strong and rare. If the player whats to only use them then he has to realize he will stink in the early game. I don't like this tiered weapon thing where every combat skill is viable out the door.

I've too thought about the unarmed - melee merger.
The pros are evident as well as the cons.
Being a different skill set in RL.
Making skill points too common with one less skill.
Making an uber character easier, without specialisation.

In all I personally may like this, but it would still feel slightly wrong unless implemented well.

Having used a bobby pin before, I'd be of the reverse opinion, that as lock pick skill increased the PC could begin to use things like bobby pins instead of real lock picks to open easy locks, as well as tackle really tough locks with the real tools. Consider a situation where the PC's tools were confiscated and all he could find was a bobby pin to escape with. *Or... he broke his picks and because of his exceptional skill, is still able to open the lock using a bobby pin (where a lesser skilled lock-picker could not manage the lock without the proper tools).

I don't see that it is supposed to be of value to the player, rather [IMO] it should just be that way, and them deal with it ~want skill with an exotic weapon, commit to learning it :shrug: (at the cost of not learning something else).

As for Melee being merged with unarmed, this has come up before; I think it stinks. It would mean we'd have a "Guns" skill, and a "Brawling" skill (or worse... Fight'n skill )
This would mean that there could be no hth expert (like a Marine corp boxer) without them being an expert in swords, knives, hammers, clubs, nun-chucks, flails, and fencing foils; its bad enough that we already had a catch-all "Melee" skill to begin with.

Agreed, same here. Skill in those weapons is very valuable and empowering. They should not be treated equally IMO.

If we are going to have skill revamps, lets' get rid of the 25/50/75/100 thresholds. Maybe those could mean something, like tools needed. However, I would like to see locks at 35 or 38 or 56 skill level needed rather than just 4 discrete levels. It seems like there is no value to intermediate skill raising like it is now.

Hear hear, I never liked the idea (Josh loves it ~ [I think] because it works for casual players that like to reload if they fail ~in the case of percentages). What you propose could work for me (if I'm reading it correctly). Do you mean just having more than four thresholds, or arbitrary thresholds on a per lock (or per class of lock) basis?

They did this in Morrowind. You would aprroach a lock and it would tell you the skill needed was 56 or 42 or whatever. If your lockpick skill was above that, you could open the lock, otherwise you would be unsuccessful. However Luck, Fatigue and a couple of other factors were applied, so it was possible to open a lock at say 60 when your skill was 52. And, you could have a lock at 52 when your skill was at 60 and not be able to open the lock until you rested up a bit and got yrou fatigue under control. It was all done with Dice Rolls and there was no mini game. It was perfect in my mind. The only thing that mattered was your characters skills and attributes, not how well the player could manipulate a mini game.

It would appear that CCNA means that a given lock's threshold could be any number rather than one of four 'tiers' of skill.

The way I would do it is to remove thresholds entirely and let anyone try any lock with any skill, however if you fail the lock jams. This would allow the setting up of extremely hard locks in order to limit access to something really valuable. Sure, you could try to get it with a skill of, say, 40, but you're almost certainly not going to.

Failure would mean either getting the wrong location with the bobby pin or the wrong password, and increasing one's skill would increase the chance for the chosen position or password to be correct. Basically, I would restore the character's skill as the determining factor.