No. You confound understanding with fact. Gradients are metaphor.

And neither was its first use a failure:


The impurity "Dwemer" was removed from the Heart of the World. Kagrenac's http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-nchunaks-fire-and-faith was http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-thirty-six-lessons-vivec-sermon-three, unto discreation.

Hate to hijack, but how did that one remaining dwemer you see in morrowind survive?
Or don't we know?

He was wandering the Outer Realms.

The Dwemer, as their antecedent, Sunbirds of Alinor and Imperial Mananauts, were renowned spacefarers.

I've actually been here longer than you, so you don't have the obligation to be cryptic and pithy like we all love to be.


Simple discreation wasn't the aim. Go read the relevant portions of the Loveletter, and Luagar's Final Report to Trebonius.


The Dwemer did it first, so not antecedents.

My pardons.


Kagrenac's formula to discreation is simple, yes. Go read the relevant portions of Nchunak's Fire and Faith.


Pardon, succeeding.

Kagrenac had many projects other than Anumidum, which isn't mentioned in Nchunak. Anumidum is explicitly referenced in the Loveletter as an attempt at achieving a much loftier goal. The Walker was constructed with the same purpose as the Mundus itself.

When you reverse the process of creation, you go up the subgradient. Creation is degradation, as you make many smaller things out of fewer large things. The Dwemer discreated themselves by doing the reverse and turning themselves into one thing. They became the brass skin of Numidium, to paraphrase the most often used line. Once you discreate, you are left with what was there beforehand.

You don't make Dwarves out of robots, so what were the Dwemer trying to create? They ended up with a Tower but were aiming for The Tower.

There we go, people making sense!

Too much sense for a discussion of Dwemer.

I drew up http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1069681-did-the-dwemer-succeed/page__st__20__p__15554016#entry15554016 about a year ago roughly detailing why the remainder of the Numidium doesn't necessitate their failure. It doesn't change the foundational theory or conclude that they necessarily succeeded (that part is left ambiguous if I remember correctly), but it does throw a few more cogs into the complexity of their aims and account for a few quotes which were ignored before. Been meaning to clean it up and formulate it into an addendum, almost forgot about it, which makes me wish I'd given my old report a different title...

Good link. Thanks man!

There is simple evidence for the Dwemer's failure. Michael Kirkbride has repeated several times, most famously in the Loveletter but as recently as this month, that love is essential to transcendence. As Kuklos just cited, Michael Kirkbride wrote that the Dwemer did not know love. He did not do this by accident. The Dwemer must have failed.

There is only one way to transcendence in the Aurbis?

Is Luagar's report considered canonical, or is it simply a plausible interpretation of ingame lore? Don't get me wrong, I love the report and it's the best answer we have right now, but have Michael Kirkbride and Todd Howard come out and said "yes, that's what happenned"?

As a whole, no.

The only thing ever ooc verified was Xal's quotation about them becoming the golden skin, commonly referred to as absorbocide.

The Dwarven Disappearance, for all I know and hope, will never be explained fully. To do so would be antithetical to their very existence. And the very idea of them.

If it did, by the way, the Dwemer would just refuse to believe it anyhow. They sit forever on the Bartleby Chair.

The more important question is where did they come from?

Just in case you don't already know, they aren't your average short stocky pipe smoking chap, they are more like elves with beards

From when they deviated from the aldmer, like all other mer.

It is a worthy question, though, because they were supposedly already established in Vvardenfell after Veloth settled the Chimer there. And if I remember correctly, this was before Trinimac's change and the creation of the Betmer and Bosmer.

They may have deviated sooner than everyone else, as they didn't bother to [NUMMIT] and moan like today's altmer and decided "hey, screw these aldmer whiners! Lets go elsewhere and figure out how to actually get out of this cage. Maybe we'll bump into a tower or something and go from there."

Start from there.

But then why is there no record of previous Aldmeri deviations before the others split off into the various races we know? I mean, the descriptions of Aldmeris sound sort of Dwemer-ish to me, with the endless city and no nature to be seen, but what does that even mean? Did the Dwemer split off before the Aldmer left Aldmeris in the first place? Or am I backwards? Are the Dwemer perhaps closest to the true Aldmer?

I would say the dwemer were very close the aldmer, but I view they're a much more hardcoe and hands-on version of the aldmer, which is where the first division may have occurred. The altmer are most likely what happened to the mainline aldmer, but developed quirks away from the originals as time progressed. Everyone else deviated in other ways from the aldmer. You have the bosmer, who put Y'ffre above all, live as forest people, and consume only meat. The dunmer rejected aldmeri beliefs and follow something closer to what men believe. Lastly, the only other known mer, the orsimer, put Trinimac above all and were changed when Trinimac was pooped out.

The dwemer may have never left their spot during Nirn's Pangaea, but the rest of the aldmer may have moved elsewhere, leaving them behind, only to be rediscovered by the dunmer, who rejected the Aldmeri beliefs. This may be why the dunmer also viewed the dwemer to be extremely heretical and blasphemous, due to that extremely hardcoe mode of aldmeri thinking.

It helps to remember history hadn't begun yet...

That too. The Dawn and Merithic era were giant 'wtf just happened?' moments, only more-so during the former.

Interesting that the Altmer remember and revile Veloth, though and not the Dwemer. Or at least publicly don't remember.

Or they just don't care about the dwemer, as they both practically believe the same thing, just with a different approach. The Chimer, on the other hand, are nothing more than traitors, heretics, and blasphemers, especially the prophet Veloth.