Thank you!

Finally, someone who understands that FONV has terrible writing and forces you into a very undesirable character role (for many players) and a very undesirable environment (for many players) with no NPCs to have any empathy or caring about at all. Not to mention the entire premise being totally ridiculous and unbelievable right from the start (yeah, a Courier who has traveled the Mojave delivering packages but has to ask everyone and anyone about the details of the environment and factions within it... sure, right, great writing). Or companions whose quests force you to go out of character (Cass is a perfect example of poor writing at its finest).

Choice in dialogue has NOTHING to do with a role playing game and never has. It has everything to do with Japanese adventure games, visual novels, and hybrids of these that use these mechanics including some Japanese role playing games, but it has nothing to do with the RPG genre in general and never has.

What's worse is when developers (Obsidian) adds all sorts of quantity (dialogue, choices, ammo types, etc) that do absolutely nothing to improve (or even offer) content that enables players to feel anything for NPCs or the game world (except perhaps wanting to get away as soon as possible).

Want to play a retro future spaghetti Western? Play FONV. Entertaining? Sure, if you enjoy that genre (i.e., spaghetti Westerns) enough to play for dozens of hours or even hundreds of hours. Certainly not for everyone, and certainly not award-winning genre of material, though.

Edit:

Marss, you are incorrect. Bethesda did not "throw money" at Obsidian at all to make FONV. On the contrary, Obsidian came to Bethesda once Bethesda acquired the IP and asked to make a game for the franchise. Bethesda and Zenimax got convinced to allow it, more's the pity.

http://kotaku.com/5968952/the-knights-of-new-vegas-how-obsidian-survived-countless-catastrophes-and-made-some-of-the-coolest-role-playing-games-ever

The Mayor of Diamond City is. Not sure if this could be considered a spoiler but sure I'll play safe just in case.

. People are paranoid before add this onto that pile of fear and even Factions like the Railroad and the BoS could see this affect their own operations. The BoS might have an influx of recruits and the Railroad might see more opposition to their mission of saving Synths.

Of course this never happens as our choices just don't matter.

Why is that surprising? Think how much more recorded voice they would need to cover all the options of an older Fallout/Elder Scrolls. As far as I can tell, the voiced player character is the reason we have no evil choices(doubt that male voice actor can do evil/mean) and less quests. It's easy with a voiced NPC and the player picking text options. With both speaking with 5+ options it would be so much more time and money, not to mention, doing it so the conversations actually flow well. Plus would you want to hear that guy use his creepy, overly sympathetic voice for more interesting options?

Then we have the fact that every single character you can possibly make sounds like a 30something caucasion....but I've yet to see this complain on the forums so maybe I'm the only one that thinks it's weird in a game from a company that makes games that let you create your own character.

If FO:NV had such amazing writing, which is the constant refrain on this board, then why did I tire of the game and quit after 50 hr? I couldn't have cared less about any of those factions.


While writing has never been Bethesda's strong suit, I think it's considerably improved in FO4 as compared to any previous title Bethesda has published.

Let's just say that if Bethesda made NV, the Powder Gangers would just be bullet sponges instead of people with their own goals and motivations.


Whereas if Obsidian made Skyrim, the Thalmor would be joinable and a side in the civil war.


Fallout 4's side quests don't give you much choice even compared to Fallout 3. You can't even . I understand Fiends are under chems so they're obviously dumb. But why are raiders so stupid in this game?

I don't disagree with the first bit, but I do disagree with the second bit. The Thalmor are not the subject of focus in Skyrim - so they should not be a joinable faction in the civil war. The Thalmor's stake in the civil war is to see it continue, not for it to end. You'd essentially be part of a faction that would just continue to instigate conflict, and there would be no true resolution to that particular side.

Edit* Lets save the Thalmor for TES VI: Hammerfell (*finger's crossed*).

Nevertheless this is some kind of a goal, with some fantasy you can make a quest line based on the idea to keep the civil war ongoing. Maybe by preventing talks between those factions, or by damaging both sides in a way that neither side can win, or something like this.

Indeed, that would be a perfect Fallout

Perhaps. I'd rather see them fully developed as a faction in a TES game that revolves around them. They deserve that - not a side show as usurpers in a conflict.

New Vegas bored the Hell out of me. I tried three times to play it because of the raves here in the forums but nothing on that game turned me on.


I'm just going to come out and say it. I never liked the game.

Well, only thing i will say is; Dead Money is better than everything BGS has ever written put together.

Played better too. Even given the enormous contradiction in narrative and mechanics

Have to say Dead Money is the best Fallout DLC I've played but I don't agree with most of this thread

NV was a barren mostly empty map, there was like 10 supermutants to fight on the entire map, 2 robots where the enclave helicopter crashed, prob 20 raiders on the entire map at any one time, a few powder gangers hanging next to a shed with a stick on dynamite, a couple dozen CL standing next to a tent or two and half the time they just had macheties, there's no big dungeons, half the locations are no more than a shack or one room cave, the NV map was prob the emptiest map in any game i ever played and there's hardly anyone playing it now, check out twitch it has almost nobody playing it, its not that popular of game, its got a few very vocal hardcoe fans but thats about it.

This post is just overflowing with sarcasm.

Nice bait.

Shame if anyone's stupid enough to believe it as some poor sap's honest opinion.

It was better than Oblivion's vanilla map. Most of the map was just forests of differing colors. Mods fixed that, but in one game, Bethesda's strong suit wasn't played.

Compared to Skyrim, NV just felt lacking as a map but at least I had great quests to keep myself occupied.

I'm part of Beyond Skyrim where the other provinces will have both awesome locations to explore and stories where your choices are meaningful and side quests have multiple ways of solving them without the need for shooty-shooty-bang-bang.

The Thalmar's political dominance in countless regions by the time of Skyrim should have justified their faction being joinable, and having a more direct presence in the Civil War. But they did not because Bethesda writing.

If Bethesda wrote New Vegas the Fiends wouldn't even be perpetually psychotic junkies desperate for a need to get high 24/7 as well as a ferocious bloodlust. No, they wouldn't even be human, they'd be a bunch of "mutant" goblins that have no defining culture besides the fact that they're cannon fodder and evil. Or better yet, just copypasting the tunnlers into the Mojave and replacing the fiends alltogether. Who needs complexity?

You'll get used to it soon enough, whenever someone mentions NV being better at something(however small and insignificant that something is) than FO3/4, there are a couple of people that flip a switch and start bashing everything and anything about NV and Obsidian.

I'll admit it does provide solid entertainment though.

What is it with you and maps? How empty or clustered they are is meaningless without the context of the story to tell you why that's important.

And Supermutants are a minority in the West Coast. Those that haven't been killed off have moved to the fringes of the Core Regions.

Raiders? You have the great khans, the vipers, the Legion, the fiends, and Powergangers------all raiders. What on earth are you talking about?

Dungeons exist, but they aren't the point of New Vegas. The overall story details the warring factions and how that all gets resolved. How does wandering through a Vault or cave meaningfully help that type of story? There's no reasons for dungeons to be emphasized in New Vegas as a core aspect of the game.

Your complaints make no sense.

*Can't make a legitimate defending argument of original post taking pot shots at New Vegas's story, decides to respond with some smug little quip instead.*

Made the mistake of replying to a troll on the first page initially. The idiot who claimed that a neo-Roman Empire, the Legion, is someone ludicrous even through it is extensively explained in game, but half of the [censored] you see in Tactics, FO3, and FO4 is totally reasonable.

Or maybe he's a Bethesda really devoted fan who genuinely believes that criticism as objectively appropriate.

I'll just need to keep this in mind for the future, that Bethesda Fallout forums are a breeding ground for apologist trolls.

Well, now we're just insulting each other. :T

All of the DLC for New Vegas is better than the base game, IMO. Especially the writing and world design. Hell, Ulysses motivations are still kind of confusing and illogical, and I think Dead Money's way too heavy-handed with the 'Let Go" and "Begin Again" themes; but the stories were interesting and made me really want to press on and find out what happens next, I actually care about the characters, and there were moments and events I wasn't expecting. That's way more important to me.

I only got a few words for that....It is a desert. (even today, if you travel to the Mojave, how many people do you expect to find there?) It doesn't make sense to make it population dense, since there was hardly any there to begin with.

Yea really not surprised OP is trolling us now lol. OP, yes people can think that New Vegas wasn't as good as Fallout 4, not everyone has to agree with your viewpoints and just because some people said they didn't like NV doesn't make them a troll, it means they have an opinion that differs from yours and you know what? That's fine. The only one being a troll right now is you and ecogen over there with this pointless thread that is now turning into an attempt at a New Vegas fan circlejerk which will do nothing but put off new players from playing new vegas because they see fans like you.


Vegas though is a very large, sprawling city with more then what, five casinos? The Vegas ruins themselves in NV were pretty weak tbh.


And the Thalmor would have numerous problems with trying to be a relatable faction or seen as a decent choice because it was so underdeveloped and made to look like obvious bad guys. Obsidian isn't perfect with it's writing lol powder gangers and Legion are proof of this. Hell, powder gangers were like the only raider group besides the Great Khans that had any thought put into them and Great Khans were easy because they had two games to work off of the Khans and that's actually giving the powder gangers credit because spoiler ex-con bandit group not entirely a hard concept to make, anyone could make that and I'm sure other games have made that.

Hell, the Fiends, Vipers, Scorpions and Jackals are just regular raiders who have no expansion behind them, the only unique thing they have apart from the generic raiders in Fallout 3 and 4 is that they have names. That's it. Vipers and Jackals don't even have any quests behind them and the Scorpions are only used as a scapegoat to solve a quest a different way.

This point is really bad and just trying to make Obsidian's writing look better then it is, New Vegas wasn't this holy grail of great writing people are making it out to be, sure it has good writing I won't argue that but you're really pushing the damn envelope with this crap.

Hey, don't diss the desert. I live in one. Not the Mojave, but right next to it anyway. >.> (and if you want to hear a really petty jab at New Vegas, Fallout 4 has better desert sunsets and it's set on the East Coast) The desert itself is fine as a desert, but the outer parts of Vegas were pretty underwhelming regardless. They at least tried with Freeside and the Strip, if the cut content is any indication.

And, why exactly are we talking about the Thalmor here? They're supposed to be an unambiguously evil, completely unlikeable faction; they're genocidal elven supremacists who potentially want to unmake the universe. That's like being disappointed you can't side with the Collectors in Mass Effect 2. And Elder Scrolls storylines have never been about branching paths or having multiple endings with wildly different outcomes - they want to build a larger story arc in the Elder Scrolls universe and avoid defining any character choices as canon or not canon (the last time an Elder Scrolls game had multiple endings, they made all of them canon and invented lore about causing breaks in time).