So, you're expecting the game to be full of [censored] by default? Fair enough, Oblivion is a good example of that. I'm not expecting much either, but unless something radical is revealed before release, I think I'll give it a try.

Its implied because one, they gave it a name, and two they told us specifically about it. Kit, also means something you outfit people with, essentially its gear for modders. If it was just an in-house tool that they wouldn't have even mentioned it, he would have just said "here they are working on levels." Do you really think they just randomly decided to walk around and talk about whatever came to mind. No, that video was planned out and Todd knew exactly what he was doing when he mentioned that. I've never once heard of any company referring to their "level creator" by name in a behind-the-scenes vid, and I'm not saying I'm an expert of behind-the-scenes-vids, but I've seen a number of them that show devs creating levels, and they don't bother to tell you the in-house name they decided to give it. This coupled with the fact that the Kit has been important to past games tells us it is again not just an in-house tool.

Its not just an assumption, its an educated guess based on all the facts we have been given, and it all points to us getting the kit once again, not to them leaving it out. If you had to weigh the odds, which do you think is more likely?

Disaster Recovery Plan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-qY_b8lo-k

I suppose it depends on how complicated they make the programming, it's more likely they will have a CS than not

World War 3 will begin but fortunately we are getting dev tools. :clap:

I uh, don't but the game, that's what. There are more than enough awesome, drool worthy games coming out this year. More than I might have time to play.

It most certainly is. The fact that the generation of the quests takes your character and play history into account doesn't change the fact that it's taking them into account while randomly generating something.


See an earlier post that I made. Todd mention that they call their dev tools the "Creation Kit" and that that's what they're using to make their game. Every major modern development studio has their own internal development tools, so that tells us nothing about whether or not Bethesda is going to release them.


Something most developers do for their tools.


In an offhand comment.


Except... that's clearly not the definition of the word that they're using here, even if they do intend to release the tools.


Why? Why wouldn't he have mentioned the name of the tool?


Unless they mention it in an offhand comment, like in that video.


"It's more likely that they're going to release tools" and "him mentioning it offhand doesn't mean that they're going to release tools" aren't mutually exclusive. They're both the case. They're almost definitely going to release mod tools. The fact that they mentioned their development tools in that video doesn't make that any more or less certain. Don't confuse wishful thinking with educated guessing.

I've heard there was a few FO3 .ESP mods before the GECK was released. if that's true having no official tools may not be such a deathblow to the Skyrim modding scene, though it would at the very least slow it down a lot & limit what is modifiable in the game.

If there is no construction set then to me that is a sure sign they will be going console exclusive next installment.

See, they never have really given us any "mod tools". They give us the software they use to make the objects and world in the game. And if they don't give it to us, mods will still be made.

And to modify data and elements included in the game itself. Which pretty clearly falls under the definition of "mod tools".


"Mods will still be made" doesn't tell us much. Technically, mods were made for Batman: Arkham Asylum, a game built on an engine whose games are generally extremely easy to modify. Arkham Asylum's mods still consist pretty much entirely of reskins for the main character.

If Bethesda doesn't give out modding tools, it's entirely possible that some or most of the formats and such used for their game would be reverse-engineered or cracked by the community, opening it up to modification. It's still pretty likely that modding the game would be far more difficult and time-consuming, that it'd take far longer for mods to start showing up, and that the mods we would get would be underwhelming at best.

The Construction Set (/GECK) was the reason that I purchased Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, et cetera. I largely only buy games with released SDKs or games otherwise very modifiable. I hate being tied down by what a development group did or didn't think of, no matter how talented they are.

I think the first PC video game I ever bought was Arcanum, then a while later I bought Morrowind. Both are highly moddable (Morrowind more so) and it taught me a lesson in economics.

I'm looking forward to seeing what TESV has in the way of graphics/art, story, and more, but I can do all that at my buddy's house on his 360 and he's happy for me to do so. Release of their Creation Kit to the public is the only way I'm laying out 50-plus USD for the video game. I work hard for my money, I know how little value I get out of unmoddable games, and I'm not interested. I pity the people who bleed their hard-earned cash for games that offer them 16-30 hours of main quest and then leave them disappointed thinking, "I've had better..."

They went all in with the last two releases by continuously improving upon the tools they gave us. They sit at the top of the gaming industry as the premier provider of Extremely Modifiable Huge Open World Single Player Games (EMHOWSPG) <-- See that? They created an entirely new genre to which there is absolutly no competition. Bethesda doesn't really have a choice anymore. As much as they are gamers they are also astute businessmen and no CEO in their right mind would pull the plug on something this big. Maybe when the sales drop or they get some competition from someone else in the industry they will step down but until then they got a lock on this sht and they aren't about to throw away the key to hundreds of millions of dollars.

We will be getting Mod tools from them for the foreseeable future.

Now that is industry anolysis you can take to the bank.

Modding is one of the things Bethesda is known for, it's one of the reasons TES and Fallout live on. To remove modding tools would be a serious mistake. I'm sure they wouldn't do it

Really? Lock this.....

Might as well ask:

What if the game does not support keyboards!?

O look here at this 80 hour of gameplay mod

called NEHRIM http://www.moddb.com/mods/nehrim-at-fates-edge/images/best-singleplayer-mod-2010

So while your replaying the same game with a different build /yawn i'm playing something that completely blows oblivion away.

Honestly nehrim IS better than oblivion it's so epic, every big se tpiece quest is just /mindblown.

Yep, I'll be getting the game either way, but if there's no mod tools then I'll probably wait for it all to be in one $50 package (or go on sale during the steam sale) before I buy it. Mass Effect 2 will keep me busy while I'm waiting.

However I'm sure they will release the tools.

I've just had to many favored and classic PC titles pull out pc features in favor of making a console game, and then not include other features in the pc version b/c they'll make enough money from the console version, and with the load of piracy fallout and oblivion experienced....WHO KNOWS.

EDIT: of course if they would just say; yeah we'll throw you some mod tools sooner or later i would be jumping with joy HECK i would be more excited than when i first heard about the game.

Yes, that is a big deal, making an editor for a closed-source game that doesn't support editors would be unbelievably complicated, even with the TES modding community I'd be highly doubtful someone would find a practical way to implement mods..

In that scenario, I don't buy the game. Also, I spend a little time on- and offline complaining bitterly to whoever will listen. Hopefully, convincing at least a few more people not to bother with the game. A kinda... boycott, if you will.

But when I'm done (in that scenario) complaining (and explaining why it matters in the first place) I'll just leave Bethesda well alone forevermore, and continue to play other things. And that would be that.

edit: Hadn't followed that Youtube link before posting this. Oh well. Looks like I *am* buying this game. :celebration:

Same as you, would not buy the game at first, and would anolyse its review (from player side) when GOTY, if any, reach under 10,00 bucks to see if worth or not.
By the way exactly the same i did with Oblivion, but in oblivion i falled for the hype and even bought it in spanish (arght - sorry in talk spanish but do t live in a country speaking it, nothing agaisn t it really, just the context)
So i waited until OB GOTHY reached under 10,00 on steam (years end promotion sales 2010) to get it.

That is true, but because of the release of kits for all of Beth's recent games (as previously stated), the community has come to expect it.

Also, Beth seems to have started the excellent practice of using ideas from the community in their releases (a la New Vegas), so it'd be beneficial for them to do so. They have always been a very community-centric developer, and I applaud them for that.

Now if only all the others would follow suit

It is only a big deal if you consider altering the game absolutely essential.


With this issue I'm of the opinion that whether or not the tools are released, it isn't going to affect my judgement or standpoint one way or the other.

It would be unfortunate if Bethesda chose not to support PC modding, and I would certainly not be pleased, but I don't necessarily need mods to enjoy a game, I've played lots of games for which I've never downloaded a single mod. While it's true that modding as always been an important aspect of the Elder Scrolls for me, but it's hardly the only appeal the series holds. Perhaps I'd simply play it as it is out of the box, though maybe I'd opt to go with the Xbox 360 version as mods are the biggest reason I'd never play the console versions of Morrowind or Oblivion, and I highly doubt my PC will be able to run the game on settings that would look as good as the console versions, unless I manage to upgrade it before Skyrim's release. If I decided I wasn't willing to play the game without mods after all, then I'd just complain on these forums for a bit, then go play something else, I have no reason to doubt there will be other games I'd like to play at the time besides Skyrim, after all.