It would shave off at least of 30% of the game's sales as the people who can't imagine playing a TES without mods go elsewhere. That's a lot of money to lose "for the sake of "fairness" or simply lazyness", especially considering that Bethesda themselves need tools to build the vanilla game core. Do the math :spotted owl: .

Sure there will be mods but there will be 1 instead of 100.And in most of the games including Morrowind the mods were what made the game enjoyable,so without mods,it's gonna be FAIL XD

There will probably be mod support, wouldn't make sense otherwise.
Also, I don't care. I can easily live without my characters being clothed.

Okay okay, there are some great mods. Still, usually nvde mods are the most popular. Then come the ones that imbalance the game totally. Then the useless graphical changes. And then the items no-one cares about.

FFS, the arguments on this forum amaze me sometimes. There really are people on here that like arguing for the sake of arguing.

Nobody is saying that people don't like playing the game unmodded. But people won't be buying the game 5+ years after release without them. Look at the front page of major news aggregation websites during steam sales, walk down to EB and ask them what their best-selling classics are. Morrowind still sells, Oblivion still sells and it is thanks to mods. I know this because I am the local know-it-all, I get asked by friends to come around and mod up their fresh install of Morrowind or Oblivion and this is a regular occurrence.



This! A thousand times, this is solid, Todd isn't an idiot. They would not mention the kit or any tools in this video if they weren't going to release them. The news would be all over gaming websites and would hurt the game's reputation.

Now you've got some points there.I never thought this way,but surely the old games are selling %90 due to mods.As the CS brings the devs money,it WILL be released.Now I have no fears it won't...(Okay,just a little but still)

I think Bethesda understands what the ability to mod the PC release means to the community as well as what effect it has on sales for that platform. I'm fairly confident we will get some form of an editor. My biggest concern is since its a new engine I hope there are no major road blocks that completely prevent us from modding certain things such as importing meshes and animations.

I will only be purchasing the PC version. I will most likely purchase the first release, the add-on compilation pack (if there is one) when released and then eventually the GOTY final release BUT if there is no construction set (and I hate to say this and it's not a threat but just a reality for me) I will not be buying the game at all until the GOTY final release comes out and the price drops to around $20. The ability to mod the game is possibly the most enjoyable part of purchasing it for me.

I briefly worked in the industry years ago and being part of the development of a game is an utter joy for me. I left and got a job in a different field due to job security, family, etc. The ability to mod a game lets me still feel connected to the industry and still feel a part of it. I plan to retire in six years and hopefully begin a new career working in the gaming field I miss so much.

Not me, mate. Morrowind without Morrowind Comes Alive and Oblivion without TIE would have been played (painfully because argh the faces in Oblivion were hideous) and forgotten - forever.

Modding rocks.

Without modding tools it'd be just another game. Modding, for me, elevates a game from short-term/temporary entertainment, to a hobby. I expect Skyrim to be a great platform for new quests, dungeons, characters, battles and digital artwork for years to come.

Almost anything is easier than what we have now.

I'm not 100% sure but I think S.T.A.L.K.E.R Shadow of chernobyl was given barely any mod tools (An SDK that did multiplayer maps at best I think was all modders got) but just look at what has been created.

http://www.moddb.com/mods/lost-alpha
http://www.moddb.com/mods/priboi-story
http://www.moddb.com/mods/super-mod-pack

It just shows that they adapted to what they were given. As long as the modding community remains friendly and helpful, good mods will still be made

I think Groucho summed up my sentiments almost to the letter.

I didn't buy FO3 until the GECK was released, largely because of the uncertainty as to whether the game was "good" without mods, and whether mods were even possible. I went out and picked it up about a day after the GECK became available.

I bought OB based on my opinions about MW, was initially very impressed with the graphics and animated grass, etc., but quickly found myself wondering why I wasn't enjoying it. The basic gameplay was just "wrong" from a couple of perspectives. Mods were able to at least partially fix OB's problems, or at least mask the inherent flaws with enough unaffected content that I could mostly ignore the problems. Without it, I'd have sold the game after about a week or two, and given up on Bethesda until presented with strong evidence that they had fixed the problem in the next game.

FO3 partially fixed some of the worst problems, but only partially. I somewhat enjoyed FO3 for a brief time before getting bored with it, for many of the same reasons as OB. After picking up and playing the original FO, I realized how much the "remake" had given up in terms of "consequences" and "risk". The Bethesda sequel game is flashy and "entertaining", and the interface is far less awkward and annoying, but the underlying sense of challenge (and not just in terms of combat) comes up lacking in many respects, compared to the old games. It's more than half FPS, as opposed to a RPG. Challenge does not equal Hitpoints, sorry.

With Skyrim, I'm hearing all sorts of stuff which MAY be good, or MAY be more of exactly what annoyed me in OB, and I'm concerned. Without a CS, I WILL NOT RISK IT unless enough of the forum posters whose opinions I respect and agree with give it a "thumbs up" after a few weeks of play. Even if they do, I may decide to wait a year or two until it hits the "discout rack" at $19.95, a fate which the lack of a CS would almost certainly hasten.

I say NO! to you, OP, as per my sig (first clause).

Seems foolish to eliminate a free, out-of-groupthink, thousands-strong creative team.

Also foolish to elimiate a tool that allows folks to make a game better in other's eyes, which can entice new buyers.

Mod tools increase game sales. A ton of people bought Oblivion for the mods. Didn't Todd say the level designers were using the creation kit in the behind the scenes video? Why wouldn't they release it?

From what I've understood it doesn't generate anything at all, but that's it's a fixed number of specific encounters/events made by Bethesda and added somewhere, with a skill check condition (e.g. somewhere you run into a Mage who wants to fight you if your destruction > 50, otherwise you won't encounter him there), or just the regular choice and consequence stuff (Make this choice in a quest, that happens. Make a different choice, something else happens.). I wouldn't consider that 'randomly generated', at least not in the sense how quests in Daggerfall were randomly generated.

Still I have no more information than you, so this is just speculation, with simplified examples. :shrug:

I think it′s highly unlikely that we′ll se a Bethesda game without Mod support. Their games are famous for this and I just don′t see them give up on that.

My Sig speaks Bounds, learn it well young Grasshopper.

well, first, You can all be certain that there WILL be some kind of modding tool released with the game. It's not EA we're talking about here, they won't make the main reason 50% of people buy the game, non-existant or payable DLC.

as for modding Skyrim itself, well... most of what people modded in OB has been put in Skyrim: dual weilding, better spell effects, graphics are gtonna be awesome too, etc...

there might be a few things people will still want to mod, but it's a lot less present that it was in OB, so honestly, I wouldn't care.

and BTW OB had an amazing number of quests that you would have discovered if you kept playing instead of going "well, I've finished the MQ, now there's not game anymore. let's put on some mods..."

This is not true, no matter how good a game is people will want to mod it, matter of fact the better the game the more modding is done for it. Beths games are great thats why people want to mod for them, there very popular. I think Beth makes the best games, but no company can make a game just how I want it, so mods to the rescue.

I don't like "What If" threads that are based on un-realistic scenarios - this qualifies for that.

Bethesda has released CS's for the last 5 games, have said many times that they enjoy supporting modding and the modding community, and have gave 0% indication at ANY level that we would not get CS tools for Skyrim. One of BGS staff even commented that at their Christmas party, one of the higher-ups was going on and on about the importance of supporting the community.

I think this is needless worrying about unlikely consequences before they befall, a waste of time.

Keep the faith.

Miax

It depends on how good the vanilla version is.

Hopefully it won't need anything.
If it needs some "fixing", and it can't be done, then I will play for only 200 hours, instead of 1,200+

The TES series is great due to many things, one of them being it's ability to be modded. Removing that feature would just hurt the series. Game will be played, will win an award or two depending on how good it is, but will not live in the hearts of fans as TES3 or TES4 do.

Like I said, Todd knew exactly what he was saying in the Vid. It wasn't an off-hand comment. They would NOT have mentioned the name if it wasn't important.

Also, you are confusing the facts I mentioned. I never said "It's more likely that they're going to release the tools" as a fact. That was my the conclusion not a fact. What I said was that the past two TES games have featured the same Mod Tools. That is fact number 1, not a guess. Todd mentions the new name for the same tool, a feature he knows is important to the community. That is fact number 2. My assumption, but I feel its a safe one to make, is that the video was well planned out and Todd knew exactly what he was going to say. If the Kit was not going to be something the community would get, he would not have mentioned the name because its information we don't need to know, and right now Bethesda is only giving us information they want us to know, nothing more. Other companies don't tell use the names of their level building tools, because its NOT important.

That is NOT wishful thinking, that is a guess based on the facts. What facts are there that we wont get the Kit?

The developed the creation kit to build the game in Morrowind... They updated/used it again in Oblivion and Fallout 3.
With Skyrim they have a new engine and a new creation kit they are building the game with. Todd says so himself in the behind the scenes video. SO. They will obviously release it just like they have in the past because it's as easy as slapping it on the disc.

I remember in the "behind the scenes" video GI posted, Todd mentioned the team using the Construction Kit to build the world environments at some point. I seriously thought people would've noticed it and stopped asking whether or not it exists... :banghead: