if Battlespire is anything to go by then Daedra (or daedroth) are all very independantly minded - they not only have individual opinions as to all situations but they are also aware of the col;lective opinions of the various kinds of daedra. they've been at it for a very long time and for them that part is so commonplace that the smarter ones can explain very precisely if they have a mind to

putting that into context when the hero in battlespire talks to the more forthcoming ones they tell him what they tink of their patron and whether they agree with his aims and decisions - as well as ginving a run down on their siblings, peers and superiors

natch different daedra have dfifferent characters and capabilities - so some are derriere kissers and some are rebels etc

... and consider that they think of most mortals as having very limited abilities (including self control) - just sheep to be hunted according to some

So,when a daedric prince is mantled,the mantler becomes everything the daedric prince was?

Yes

Is it even possible to mantle a Daedric Prince? I always viewed becoming the Prince of Madness not as mantling a Daedric Prince, but mantling something that a Daedric Prince was previously mantling.

And therin lies the inevitable proplem with making metaphysics so accessible in a fantasy universe. It gets to the point that doing something menial one character does and wearing his shoes for a day counts as mantling and then for some reason, you're unrecognizable from the original.

The biggest issue I have with mantling is that it never stops with one character. A charcter who has previously mantled another (i.e. Wulfharth/Ysmir) will suddenly mantle a third (Zurin Arctus) and then fourth (Tiber Septim). There need to be rules against this sort of thing or else after a while, we'll see characters who have a few hundred others under their belt in a perfectly acceptable, reasonable, and worst of all, explainable manner.

What I liked about the enantiomorph was that it modelled actual, RL theosophy, and it was just cryptic and confusing enough to work. Doing quests and getting symbol of office doesn't count as mantling. In order to mantle a Daedric Prince, you'd have to reenact the creation of Aurbis complete with the interplay of Anu and Padomay (or whatever you'd wish to call that struggle).

There's plenty of proof behind that statements All of those creatures (but the hungers) can be found in Dagon's realm, as well as the portals opened by the Mythic Dawn.

You can't kill a Daedric Prince nor any of the Aedra. They're just forces and metaphysical representations of concepts, like destruction and love and work and mercy. You can't kill "mercy" or "love". Those are actions/emotions/concepts.
I believe the CoC did not become the ruler. I'm thinking it was just a trick by the mad prince. A mortal cannot become a daedric prince. That'd be like turning yourself into the manifestation of "greed" or "yardwork" or "crop dusting" or something.

I see no reason to believe the CoC became a Daedric Prince. Now, I believe he/she became Sheogorath, but not an actual Daedric Prince. As I said before, I think the only reason that the previous Sheogorath was a Daedric Prince was because he was in fact Jyggalag, a Daedric Prince to begin with.

But why would that matter? Meredia wasn't a Daedric Prince to begin with. Malacath wasn't. Dagon wasn't.

Perhaps its been too long since I've played SI, but who says Sheogorath didn't exist until Jyggalag became him? Perhaps it isn't that Jyggalag was cursed with madness, and that that mad form called itself Sheogorath. Rather perhaps Jyggalag and Sheogorath were both around, one embodying Order and the other Madness. The Princes knew that off all people Jyggalag hated Sheogorath the most so they cursed the two to be one. It was a just prison for Jyggalag and Sheogorath was too crazy to notice anyway.

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Meridia and Malacath were still beings of higher subgradients than mortals. It seems that for beings of higher subgradients, Daedric and Divine can be interchanged or perhaps converted from one to another, as was also seen with the half-divine Umaril.

Yes. What you have is a Prince, and the Prince is a box. As in receptacle. What you put in the box, becomes the Prince. You put a mortal in the box, it becomes the Prince, because the box has claimed the mortal as its identity. It is now the box with a mortal inside. It is now the mortal who has mantled a Prince. The mortal is bound to the Tree. The mortal has given its Freedom, to be the Tree. Don't think of the Tree of Madness and the Prince as separate units, they're one.

Mortal goes into the Tree - this is allegorical anyhoo - the mortal is now the Prince.

You see, it is the mortal making the greater sacrifice. It was obligated to give, to become.


Not before their transformations. They were mortal too.

Prince of Madness perhaps, perhaps, but not Daedric Prince. You have to either be divine or have been what is considered "daedric" from the start. Ever realize why the only actual incidents of non-Daedra becoming Daedra were at least partially divine?


Trinimac was a later generation Aedra; still more powerful than mortals, but not at the original strength of the Divines or the Daedric Princes. Hence why he is considered weak among the Daedric Princes, and perhaps why his realm is of little more than smoke and ash. Meridia was considered a "wayward solar daughter", again probably a being of a relatively high subgradient. I've never heard of her being weak compared to the other Princes though.

Yes.

That's the question I answered, not 'is it possible for a mortal to become a new Daedric Prince?'

Edit: And from below, yes. A mortal can become a new daedra.


Aedra, making him a mortal god.

And you've only heard of Mauloch being 'weak' from other Princes and their sycophants. It's dike waving. He's Daedroth, there are no power levels among them. Each wields absolute power.

Only mortals with a degree of divinity, from what we've seen.


OK, he was technically a mortal. But it was not his mortal nature that allowed him to become Daedric, it was his divine nature. The closest we've ever seen to bottom-subgradient mortals becoming Daedric is binding them to Mankar's Paradise, which suggests that if this is how it was done, only a speck of Aedric nature remains.

As for Malacath, we see both texts of him being viewed as weak and not a true Daedric Prince in both Imperial and Dunmer texts. Sure mortal lore on Daedra is far from infallible, but I feel it makes perfect sense, having been of a lower subgradient than the other Princes. And Boethiah ate Trinimac for breakfast. Literally. How would Trinimac be any stronger as Malacath?

What is a "true" Daedric prince, though? Miridia is a wayward solar daughter. Sheogorath is a perversion of the very anuic Jyggylag, Lorkhan's divine spark, a mortal, or all three. Malacath is a mortal. Mehrunes is Magnus. Thats a quarter who are definitely not classic Daedra. Then theres Herma Mora, who is an "altmeri demon," what ever that means; Hircine, who used to be (or maybe still is) a general of Mehrunes Dagon; Nocturnal, who is the void itself. Daedra - and Aedra, for that matter - are not a static, neat label but a very general set of categories meant to be viewed from a very specific angle (that of the Aldmer, to whom only lineage matters).

He's also "unused ideas" of Lorkhan's Creation and connected to Akatosh.

It's easy to attribute some Daedra to the Prince whom the majority of them serve:

Dremora are destructive.
Hungers eat things.
Winged Twilights have the mythological aspect in their name.
Orgrims are fat and ugly.
Spider Daedra are... spiders.

Other than the few exceptions, most Daedra are just Daedra and are plucked from Oblivion by a Prince based on their own desires. Otherwise, Hermaeus Mora's Daedra would be librarians, Peryite's would be paralegals, Sheogorath's would be lunatics, and Sanguine's would be hedonists.

indeed why don't we despair

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I think they just come back since u can only manipulate their "energy" and never can u destroy it, so u kill a deadra in oblivion his body is destroyed but he will get back, sooner or late,r his existence is unending, while "mortals" die and they can't come back (in physical form) they are "released" and their energy goes somewhere else I guess, unless they bound themselves to deadra then I think they in turn become deadra after death !!!

Mortals do despair, they have hope too, which frigid immortals can't understand.

all souls know deep down they came originally from somewhere else, and that Nirn is a cruel and crucial step to what comes next.