What happens when someone dies : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:47 am

The title says it all, do they simpily cease to exist or is there an after life, or multiple depending on the person?

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:26 am

The title says it all, do they simpily cease to exist or is there an after life, or multiple depending on the person?

The souls go to the Dreamsleeve.

From the UESP article http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tamriel:Aetherius

It is a common belief that the soul of a dead person, assuming they are not earthbound for some reason, goes to Aetherius, to continue on as a spirit. (The Nords call this "Sovngaard")This belief is not technically correct, since souls do not stay in Aetherius but enter the so-called Dreamsleeve to be recycled, and this construct is associated with Aetherius.

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:16 am

The afterlife is athruis(sp?).

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:14 pm

It appears that spirits may be sent to the realm of their gods if they worshipped a god or gods in their life. In some cases this could actually be Aetherius. Or Paradise in other cases.

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:32 am

It appears that spirits may be sent to the realm of their gods if they worshipped a god or gods in their life. In some cases this could actually be Aetherius. Or Paradise in other cases.

Oh? Where'd you get that idea?

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:45 am

Oh? Where'd you get that idea?

A few things. First, it is implied that spirits can freely travel between worlds. Second, the Knights of the Nine, who had not been forceably bound to Nirn, but instead returned, referred to it. Third, those in the Mythic Dawn go to Paradise when they die. And fourth, the wiki article is most likely written by people on this forum.

Edit: Granted, I still believe in the Dreamsleeve, but I figure that the whole Aetherius thing is typically for those that serve the Nine. Either way, the Dunmer can call their ancestor's spirits from wherever.

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:27 pm

The only reason you "go to" Aetherius is because the Dreamsleeve is *in* Aetherius. This is where the faithful and faithless alike go. With exceptions. It's called Lunar Currency because souls can be claimed and redirected by Necromancers, Ancestor-Worshipers or the Daedra. If you like the Nine Divines and Arkay or anyone who's not a spiritual packrat, you go to the Dreamsleeve.

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:10 am

The only reason you "go to" Aetherius is because the Dreamsleeve is *in* Aetherius. This is where the faithful and faithless alike go. With exceptions. It's called Lunar Currency because souls can be claimed and redirected by Necromancers, Ancestor-Worshipers or the Daedra. If you like the Nine Divines and Arkay or anyone who's not a spiritual packrat, you go to the Dreamsleeve.

So why didn't the Mythic Dawn go there when they died?

Also, we know that there are very old spirits that still linger, even if not in Nirn, such as Pelinal Whitestrake.

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:11 am

So why didn't the Mythic Dawn go there when they died?

Also, we know that there are very old spirits that still linger, even if not in Nirn, such as Pelinal Whitestrake.

Because they were "claimed or redirected by necromancers, ancestor-worshipers or daedra!!!!" :stare:

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:40 am

Because they were "claimed or redirected by necromancers, ancestor-worshipers or daedra!!!!" :stare:

That doesn't sound beyond the power of the Aedra.

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:14 am

well, apparently it is <_< . as for pelinal, he is an Ada, right up there in power with the Aedra.

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:48 am

That doesn't sound beyond the power of the Aedra.

It isn't. But why the HELL would the Aedra subvert their own construct?!?

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:08 am

It isn't. But why the HELL would the Aedra subvert their own construct?!?

Because good help is hard to find these days.

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:15 pm

Because good help is hard to find these days.

Then you'd be jacking employees from Arkay, god of Life and Death.

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:03 am

The souls go to the Dreamsleeve.

From the UESP article http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tamriel:Aetherius

The UESP rather skimped on the rationale though.

Arkay is the God of the cycle of life and death. We're born from the dreamsleeve and return to it on death in an endless cycle that is always new.

Birth:

We mortals leave the dreaming-sleeve of birth the same, unmantled save for the symbiosis with our mothers, thus to practice and thus to rapprochement, until finally we might through new eyes leave our hearths without need or fear that she remains behind. In this moment we destroy her forever and enter the demesne of Lord Dagon. - http://til.gamingsource.net/obbooks/mythic_dawn_commentaries.shtml

Mortals leave the dreaming-sleeve of birth, without any divinity (unmantled) safe for the symbiosis with the special divinity of Nirn (our mother, Mankar wan't to destroy Nirn).

The powers also created Red Tower and the First Stone. This allowed the Mundus to exist without the full presence of the divine. In this way, the powers of Ada-mantia granted the Mundus a special kind of divinity, which is called NIRN, the consequence of variable fate. - http://til.gamingsource.net/obscure_text/nu-hatta_nu-mantia.shtml

This special divinity comes back in the intercept, Red Mountain (tower) holds Lorkhan's Heart (stone). Lorkhan's heart is also called the divine spark, our shared divinity. As such, we already much like the Daedra, we're separate parts of a larger divinity.

Death:

When people from different cultures all believe in an afterlife and all seem to get exactly what they expect, it is reasonable to assume that their experiences are influenced by their expectations. The Nords believe they go to a place called Sovngarde which can be translated as to a meaning that means as much as the Dreamsleeve, the sleep-enclosure. So we're already back the start.

"The echo of the Void is Oblivion. The echo of Oblivion is now mortal death. Death results in reappropriation of spirit towards its aligned AE?"either to the god-planet Aedra or the Principalities of Oblivion. Vehk’s name for this transaction, mentioned above, is “lunar currency”." - http://til.gamingsource.net/obscure_text/5th_era_loveletter.shtml

This shouldn't be read as some Heaven and Hell afterlife were people who've done enough bad things end up in Oblivion. The AE literally is a connector and in the sermons it is often used as: "AYEM AE VEHK AE SETH", Almelexia and Vivec and Sotha Sil, Almsivi.

This connection is the soul. Normally, when a person is killed he experiences afterlife, when a Daedra is slain he experiences the void. A soul trap can force the soul to remain connected to a soulgem and a Necromancer can call back souls and force them to animate a body again.
Ghosts can return out of their free will if they have something that binds them, but often you'll see that they've already started to disintegrate and are starting to lose their memories and thoughts while they're being mangled and stripped from their identity in the dreamsleeve.

As I've already shown above, mortals are born from the dreamsleeve, it's their to their divinity so their allinged AE goes to Mundus and while the God planets of the Aedra are often interpreted as Aetherius, they are part of Mundus, they are the gift limbs.

It's also what allows Mankar Camoran to pick up his followers in his Paradise, they've given up Mundus ("destroy her forever") and become part of Mehrunes Dagon ("enter the demesne of Lord Dagon")

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For more:

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=568807&st=0&p=8228887&#entry8228887
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=104313
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=557966

Similar topic:

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=646953&st=0&p=9389259&hl=sovngarde%20dreamsleeve&#entry9389259

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:01 pm

The UESP rather skimped on the rationale though.

Well I only wrote one sentence.

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:23 am

So why didn't the Mythic Dawn go there when they died?

Also, we know that there are very old spirits that still linger, even if not in Nirn, such as Pelinal Whitestrake.

Good questions.

1. Following Mankar's descriptions in his Commentaries, it seems possible to bind yourself to another realm. So that when you die you are no longer recyled by Mundus but rather the realm you've pledged your allegiance too, be it that of a Daedra like Umaril did or to Mankars (Dagons?) little fizzball.

2. I haven't seen any lore on that. Though considering Nirn is a ball of multi personality schizophrenia, there is a fair chance you are talking to a bit of soul that might also be part of yourself. I don't know any Daedric Ghosts so that's probebly accurate.

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:45 am

Out of curiosity, what did really happen to Umaril after he was slain (the second time, right?)? Was he/his spirit "utterly destroyed", or was he just "released" and sent back to the dreamsleeve to be recycled again?
I haven't played KotN, so I don't know any more about it than what I read or heard.

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:40 pm

Out of curiosity, what did really happen to Umaril after he was slain (the second time, right?)? Was he/his spirit "utterly destroyed", or was he just "released" and sent back to the dreamsleeve to be recycled again?
I haven't played KotN, so I don't know any more about it than what I read or heard.

If you've read the story line on TIL, you know as much as everybody else. The fight above the Imperial City seems to suggest that you were following his soul on the way to Oblivion, and at the end it is said that "His very spirit cast into the void and destroyed for all eternity"