Well, with recent information it seems plausible that not all Lycanthropes go. Just a selected few who wanted the power to transform at will, in exchange for such Hircine grants them a position of commanding a lupine pack in his Hunting Grounds. It ties in with a quest in Skyrim. Though cannot be limited to a select few. I would venture to agree that those who accept their nature as beasts die and go to Hircine's realm for eternity. Those who reject it might be send to the recycle bin.

Which would bring up an interesting point. Since they've already given in/accepted it, would curing it really sever their ties with Hircine? Perhaps after a long period of honest repenting, but if you're curing it just before death...

I'd say that it's a case of similar influences rather than of TES copying WoT. The Dreamsleeve really functions quite differently from the TAR, though the cycle/wheel of time is pretty similar in both.

I like the fact the lore is vague in certain aspects of the TES universe. In these areas I like to make up my own conclusions to fill the gaps in the lore. In the case of the afterlife, the dreamsleeve seems to be the consensus. However there seems to be enough of ambiguity in the subject (see knights of the nine and a snippet of Martin's epilogue after OB main quest regarding going "to my fathers") that I will just settle on a hybrid theory of my own.

I think that some souls go through the dreamsleeve process while others experience some sort of afterlife. Though I haven't thought through what would determine which fate souls would experience.

Truthfully, I think they were both at their core influenced by concepts in Buddhism than anything found in popular fiction at that time. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if at least one
of their writers wasn't a WoT fan. Just an intuitive leap of faith.

Also the afterlife realms in the ES universe somewhat remind me of Dante's Inferno, seeing as the afterlifes in TES can be said to be modeled for certain "traits", much like
the levels of hell were in Dante's work.

The idea is that any "afterlife" experienced is where the "dream" part of dreamsleeve comes from. And, technically, Martin did get to go onto "his fathers"... and the fathers, grandfathers, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, deceased cousins, etc. of everything (or at least everybody, with the possible exception of the Argonians). There's a slight possibility that the gods themselves are floating around in the dreamsleeve, at least in part, else the idea of a mortal born with a divine soul (ala Shezarrine) would be slightly harder to explain.

A dream? So Sovngarde is an extention of the Dreamsleeve too? I read that in UESP, but Skyrim's final quest seems to prove otherwise.

That three heroes from (presumably) the first era or before were still chilling out in Sovengarde, without having been reincarnated, makes me think that perhaps Sovengarde isn't just another facet of the dreamsleave, and instead functions much more like an Oblivion realm when it comes to its function as an afterlife.

My thought exactly. When I saw Ysgramor there, I thought to myself "Wouldn't they of been recycled by now?". So the UESP and the lore masters were incorrect! :celebration:

Sovngarde is a true afterlife and not a Dreamsleeve( :rolleyes:)

Fixed that for you <_<

Hahaha. I wonder what else you guys are "correct" about in ES lore. :read: :rofl:

And if previous information was proven to be incorrect, wouldn't that make you wrong even if it was considered right? But I feel you on that, Bethesda has a way with coming out with new stuff or changing their lore.

I hate to get into this, but it's really not as simple as being right and wrong. Is Darwin wrong because we know about epigenetics now? Based on the information we had prior to Skyrim, our theories were as correct (accepted, not disproved) as they could have been. We were as "right" as we could be without having access to Bethesda's archives. Now, since Skyrim seemingly contradicts what we knew before, we have to revise our theories/opinions/interpretations. Perhaps Skyrim will end up supporting them rather than refuting them, as was the case with Shivering Isles. The game came out less than a week ago, it is much too early to be drawing definite conclusions.

I was teasing. But in curiosity, why did most people think Sovngarde was also an extention of the Dreamsleeve, why did most people disaprove of it being a regular unending afterlife as the book "Sovngarde a reexamination" says? I tried searching for it but couldn't find another source which indicates that Dreamsleeve is the only manner of "afterlife" out there.

We're fond of tidiness. If all people pass through and get recycled, why should the Nords get special treatment? It undermines the mythic foundations of the universe if anyone can pick any sort of eternal afterlife they like rather than following a rule. There's also the translation of Sovngard, which, iirc, is remarkably close to "dreamsleeve." I've not yet played through that part of Skyrim, but right now I would wager that Sovngard is a Nordic Far Shores anolog.

I see. You feel it unfair of the the final fate of the rest of the people while others get to live on forever. I would feel the same way. To be honest, I never liked the idea of the Dreamsleeve. Some may like it, but the concept seems so bland to me. After years of living, you die and get recycled to a completely different person with no memory of previous life? What the hell is that? Compared to living in eternity in a spirit world drinking mead in Sovngarde or hanging around a Daedric Realm going mad with Sheogorath or Hunting with Hircine.

But in agreement, I can say it would be unfair for the rest of the folks. If they truly want to live forever, it would be wise to subscribe to a Daedric Cult or if he/she is a nord, die valiantly in combat.

Well, Sovngard felt pretty real unless it was a magicka-induced fever dream. =P

I don't really have much to add, aside from agreeing it seems that (barring deeper explination) that the Nords at least do genuinly get their own, special and emad-drinking, afterlife.

That's not to say that other religions don't, though. Remember that subjective reality exists in TES. The beliefs of millions of people persisting for thousands of years could create a "pocket" within the Dreamsleeve localizing all persons of like belief in one "place," if you could call it that. They experience their afterlives as they're stripped of identity, slowly fading into the Dreamsleeve proper outside of time.