Hah, yeah. Thats absolutely where I think they're going, just based on the themes of Fallout 3 and 4 and Fallout in general. I hope I am right, since that would be a lot cooler than even the Legion/NCR.

For me i'm hoping good guys but I think Bethy might made them grey for balance for good character and bad so that way if you good you would side with them and vice versa.

I found New Vegas to be a lot more compelling from a factions stand point because there was a lot more I could roleplay around with factions thats sense of morality has ups and downs that allows for individual perception and experiences to colour how both you and your character view them.

Except for the Legion. Murder them all. And the no post-ending gameplay which means I haven't finished the game in a long time...

But anyways, I think Bethesda took a lot of notes since in Skyrim the Empire/Stormcloak conflict has a lot of the same elements to it. Very grey, it mostly being a compromise between what you consider to be more important in what the two sides are doing and will allow to happen. It adds a whole bundle of depth to the roleplaying aspect, and its a sign of being a great game when people are still to this day arguing about which side is better over in the Skyrim section of these forums without a very clear resolution that a large number of people agree on.

The whole "Join Factions! " thing on the Fallout 4 Steam Store page makes me think we'll be getting something just as cool as what we had in 2010 and 2011.

(Incidentally, given the broad picture, Empire all the way. I'd side with the Stormcloaks if Ulfric could be deposed and his proud-Nord-but-not-racist-jerkoff second could rule Skyrim by marrying the High Queen. Given the threat of the Aldmeri, Ulfric is signing his own death wish... even with the Dragonborn on his side, the Dominion could stomp a cut-off Skyrim, IMO. Nothing but a selfish, racist power play.)

Yeah, New Vegas was great. I tried to side with the Legion once, but their empire was a kindling ready to go aflame; way more than the "fragile" NCR. I regret not being able to hand the dam over to NCR and their sharecroppers, while keeping New Vegas with my robots on friendly terms.

Point being, the factions in New Vegas were great, and there is a genuine grey area to independence or a part of the NCR. The problem is that both are awesome in the face of the slave-owning, misogynistic, carried-by-one-man Legion. With the death of Caeser and the Lanius, the whole thing falls apart.

Ironically, NCR is probably better off losing Mojave. If they win, the militaristic party gets stronger, they expand more and would soon collapse. A country that is already on verge of collapse can't afford to expand. That's probably my favorite thing about the faction choice in FNV.

Its actually said losing the Mojave will be the death of them, since The Legion destroyed all of their other trade routes east, losing the mojave traps the NCR and causes them to essentially cannibalize themselves.

The Legion collapses after Caesar and his Legate die so those trade routes might get restored (though I am not sure how important those trade routes are). Furthermore, if you go Mr. House route than you can arrange a trading agreement and Mr. House seems to want them alive as well.

Not sure what would happen to them in Anarchy ending.

Unless you can un-nuke the Divide, and un-kill everyone from New Canaan, they can't really restore the destroyed trade routes.

Hm, isn't The Long 19 the major trade route, now?

You mean the long 15? the road in the mojave that they will no longer have access to if they lose the Mojave?

Yes, for now, the Long 15 is the NCR's last route east.

Derp. 15, right.

Actually, as far as trade goes, I'm a little hazy. I was under the impression that once you get past New Canaan and into DEEP Legion territory, trade with the NCR ceases; that is, was the NCR trading heavily with the people out there?

Grey all the way.

Lawful Neutral alignment, true grey karma(not "kinda dikes but not completely dikes" like a lot of people think grey is.)