Okay well if you want to use that definition, they are not pacifists, because they are not against violence, period.

You can't say you are pacifist and hire people to do you killing for you. That was my original point.

In ye old Gurps, the pacifist disadvantage had pacifist: no violence. Pacifist: self defense only. Pacifist: will not kill. I think those were the differences, been a long time.

My point was FotA are not Gandhi like pacifists...they just don't look to fight, but they wouldn't lay there and let someone kill them.

To me, FotA is pacifist: self defense. A very minor disadvantage, according to Gurps.

Being against violence, but having to use violence when you're out of options, does not negate you from being a Pacifist when the only options for survival is using violence. Violence is not your main priority, it's not your first, second, third, or even 100th option against your enemy, but it is your absolute last resort when it comes to survival. The FotA, are Pacifists.


Yes you can, because it's not YOU (the Pacifist), who is enacting violence on those who would try to enact violence onto you (which doesn't necessarily require killing. There have been plenty of pacifist protests in history, that have resulted in no deaths for either side. In the FotA's case, they're simply hiring defenders, people who are willing to use violence, unlike them, to defend them. That does not again, negate the FotA from being a Pacifists. They are again, aware violence must be used at some point, but they're not looking to commit violence unless they're brought to that very edge of surviving or dying.


But it still makes the Pacifists. You show right there, that self defense does not negate them from being Pacifists.

I get what yer saying. My debate was first you said pacifists against violence period, acting like they were Gandhi like pacifists, which they are not.

Which was point I was trying to make but I guess I made a bad show teying to get acrossed, especially seeing how the original statement on it was a joke.

Trying to pin down one true definition of pacifism is entering a semantic quagmire. Practically, there are a spectrum of definitions, much like atheism (though people often mistakenly conflate atheism with agnosticism, but that's another can of worms).

Well, I want to see these factions in future games:

1. Caesar's Legion
2. Talon Company
3. MWBOS
4. Outcasts

Then I want more tribals, raiders and religious groups.

But I don't want some crappy raiders to just "shoot at". No, I want about 6 raider tribes in the next game, all of which have their own characters. Their own storylines, their own villages/strongholds and then the player has to make a choice "Do I want lots of combat, or do I want lots of quests?"
But eventually you will stumble upon quests that go against a raider faction and if you choose to complete it then you will go Vilified by them.

I just want more focus on these kinds of things.
I want more lore on raiders, and not just one group, but several.
I want to see what kind of religions were born out of the atomic fire and I want to hear about their philosophies in depth.
And I want more focus on tribals if there are any in the game, I want to see societies that are completely alien to us.

But I don't want anything [censored] like the Bright Brotherhood or Atom's Followers again, cause while both had potential of being something great they were too rushed and we barely got any juicy interactiong with either of them.

I don't want generic enemies ever again unless they are explained in the lore as being completely irrational psychopaths (Like the one's in Fallout 3).
But that's the thing, not every raider faction should be this way, and an entire region can't be controlled by a raider population that is greater than the civilized population.
I want to interact with the Raiders, I want to choose my allegiance, I want to properly roleplay as a bad egg, I want the choice to say "[censored] you civilized world, I'm going rouge" and then never enter another civilized town.

And I want Tribals to be exapnded upon, Fallout is about exploring how humanity changed, how new cultures and religiouns were created and how alien the world can be just around the corner.
Tribals have that potential to be really alien to us, to be so... Strange and have such weird customs that it draws us in to want to find out more about them.


What factions do I want?
I want fleshed out factions and no generic crap.

Enclave Chicago remenents
MWBoS
Lyons BoS called somthing else
Caesars Legion
Nod

Lyons BOS (but shouldn't play a huge role)
The Institute
The Railroad
Caesar's Legion
Enclave Remnants (Like Arcade's)

But fresh, new factions should be introduced as well.

1. Enclave Remnants in Chicago.

2. MWBOS

3. Mutant Liberation Army

4. Calculator Remnants (if they aren't joined with the MWBOS and if there are any left)

5. I'd honestly like to see Victor Presper and his group in some Fallout game, although I think this is a bit unlikely.

6. The Reservation

MwBoS as a main faction. Some Enclave remnants in Chicago as well. Along with some creative raiders or tribes.

I'd love to see a Faction that was bribed/forced to be a front for the Enclave, such as a rogue chapter of the Brotherhood where the leader sided with the Enclave, and since they are in a weakened state, promised to work as their henchmen, of sorts.

I'd also like to see a faction that was split from this group (Think reverse roles of the Outcasts and Lyons' BoS) that split for a different reason, they split for the fact that the above faction promises to help the people of whatever the Wasteland is, but they don't.

I'd love to see it boil down to one huge battle between the Outcasts and the Rogue Chapter, where your PC discovers that the Rogue Chapter is a front for the Enclave, and has the choice to detonate a nuke in self-sacrifice, or let the Enclave run Chapter win and take over, allowing the Enclave to rise back into power.

Why rename them if they already have an identifiable name?

True to Caesar! I'd like to see more Legion even if it's only as a minor faction (Not because they're destroyed but because they're expanding into other lands)

They aren't part of them, and if they make their own "country" Brotherhoods of Steel isn't the best name.

They may no longer thee Brotherhood of Steel but they are there on BoS orders though they have changed the objectives somewhat. So they are still Brotherhood but because they aren't thee Brotherhood they have added "Lyon's" to the front as a way of making that clear-er.
Just like the MidWestern Brotherhood, should they change their name because they don't follow suit?

- Lyon's BoS is still Brotherhood and are identified by the High Council, they just don't recieve any additional support until they get back onto their main orders, I assume.

My hopes for fallout 4 would be a sequel to fallout 3 including the Bos. In it they would have made up their own "country" and would have changed their name, that is why a different name is preferable to me.

Fair enough, where do you think Lyon's would expand though, assuming they control DC.

I wouldn't mind seeing a new faction of Psykers, that know your every move making for a difficult faction to destroy or even kill

I want to see atleast these factions in coming fallouts:
Brotherhood of steel - Ofcourse we need knights with their shining armors to protect innosent people.
Enclave - It should be main faction. Maybe player would be side with the enclave.
United National Extraterrestial and Tellus alliance- UNETA - It should be major faction. They would sympathize aliens and would worship them. Also they would raid anything that opposes aliens. They would also be a major role in upcoming alien invasion(probably in fallout 5 or 6?) and player could join in that faction to help aliens to take control earth.
Talon company - They need to be in it too.
Slavers - Every wasteland gotta have these dudes or it doesnt feel dangerous enough place.
Animal rights group. ARG- They would attack and kill anyone who kills animals(deathclaws, bears, molerats.. excluding insects) They would posssess powerarmors and other high tier weapons what they buy from Enclave as they want to keep the nature clean just like enclave wants. And i think thats is good enough reason to enclave to supply this faction.

As long as they keep the BoS, the Enclave and maybe Caeser's Legion in the game I am a happy hippy panda.

Up and down and all around. I think in about 10 years they would be near Philadelphia.

Glimpse? I WANT THE WHOLE DAMN THING!!! I would love a spinoff game of just the Legion. It would satisfy a lot of my fallout cravings.

What if it happened in Denver, you see the city in ruins and a whole bunch of dead Legion, then it zooms out and you see an NCR colonel leading troops, how would that make you feel?

Reavers or a similar techno-religious raider-like group
Beastlords or similar with a good explanation regarding their abilities
Enclave Remnants that don't shoot the player on sight
MWBoS
Lyons Brotherhood if somewhere on east coast but only an outpost and play no big part
One or two mercanary groups that are joinable

Because those need protecting right.......


Eden's plan in Fallout 3 was to wipe out any far gone mutated animals (including most wastelanders). They aren't Animal rights activists by any means. After all they harnessed deathclaws through mind-control in order to use them for close quarters combat operations.

The Autumn Leaf, a communist faction from Canada attempting to expand its territory. They could be marksman specialists?

Communists. If obsidian does the writing then i would love to see their point of view about communism. But if its a bethesda exclusive(as i think it will be) then absolutely not, they would say that communism is bad and force you to hate it, just like they did with the enclave.