The Ebonheart pact?

Seriously?

The Dunmer and the Argonians would never, EVER, EVER work with each other.

And why in the hell would the tribunal give two [censored] about the second empire anyways?!

AND WHY ARE THE NORDS SIDED WITH AN ELVEN RACE AND A BEAST RACE INSTEAD OF THE OTHER HUMAN RACES!

By the nine the lore is just being butchered before my very eyes... Can we excomunicate this game from canon? I mean seriously, they did it with BOS in Fallout! This is just so... wrong...

They took everyones favorite races and threw them into one group. Seriously though, I really don't think there's rhyme nor reason for this beyond "unite against this evil d00d." which reeks to me. What gets me is the Orcs and Bretons working together(?). Wat.

A common foe can sometimes be enough to bring old enemies together... Though I do find it odd that DC and EP are both comprised of the races that, historically, hate each other the most

I didn't catch that... I mean really? REALLY? The Bretons and the Orcshttp://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&tbm=isch&tbnid=ibxwAW_iHlaJCM:&imgrefurl=http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/would-you-eat-this-dancing-squid&docid=_Xsv-H1VdUPblM&imgurl=http://s3-ak.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/web04/2011/7/20/12/no-just-no-22436-1311178560-49.jpg&w=306&h=227&ei=XxWmT_ypOOaviALGkO3mAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=303&vpy=290&dur=2899&hovh=181&hovw=244&tx=142&ty=157&sig=103336510030089674632&page=1&tbnh=117&tbnw=154&start=0&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:77&biw=1366&bih=569

They will try to tell you that it makes sense because they have a common enemy. They will try to tell you that the Tribunal is bringing its old enemies to heel with promises of protection against the Empire. They will try to tell you that the Argonians' hatred of the Dunmer is irrelevant, that the age-old hatred of Man for Orc can be dismissed in times of war.

It's all Vehkian lies and propaganda.

Stand strong against the mutation. Resist. Endure.

ALDABALN AE MNEMOKAR ANU.

DAAR LOS TAHRODIIS! RAHGOL!

Sure they would. First, take this bit from the Pocket Guide to Empire.


So during this period the Argonians are being completely dominated by foreign influences. Imperial warlords lording over them, and a booming slave trade. Their entire society is in a weak state. They have no clear independent government, like the Organism that is founded later by the An-Xileel at the beginning of the Fourth Era. And sure, much of the population may hate Dunmer for their transgressions, but they're a population without any power. Next, take this bit from The Argonian Account:


Its made clear in the account that the Archeins had traditionally held power in Argonia--they were the ruling class--and it makes sense that they would exist under the dominion of the Empire, and that they (or another group with similar policies) would have existed during the foreign-dominated Second Era. Every society has willing collaborators. Just like Queen Elisef of Skyrim and the Hlaalu of Morrowind and the Forebears of Hammerfell. One might even suspect that the "entire tribes" that were "dragged" into slavery were traditional and troublesome enemies to the ruling and influential Argonians of the time.

The thing everyone needs to remember is that, and I use caps lock for emphasis, SOCIETIES ARE NOT MONOLITHIC. Also, Argonia is a region, not a nation. There is no centralized authority. And whether ruled by warlording Imperials or by their own fellow Argonians, you can solidly bet that formal relations between Argonia and Morrowind were at their highest during this period of intense slavery. You could even say that, the more booming the slave trade is, the better relations between Morrowind and Argonia there are.


And the Nord-Dunmer alliance has so much precedent that I hope you don't even need me to explain that one.

Please do explain.

MNEMOKAR ANU. ALDABALN ANU.

MNEMEKROS ANUULATTA ALTADOON AE GHARTOK NEPAHUM.

There is plenty of prescedent for the Nords working with elves.

Dawn Era: Nords arrive on Tamriel, and their relationship with the Falmer is benevolent; until the discovery of the Eye of Magnus beneath Saarthal.

1 Era 482: The Nords, in alliance with the Dirennis elves of High Rock, defeat the Alessian Army at Glenumbria Moors.

1 Era 700 The Nords aid either the Dwemer or the Dunmer, depending on what version you're told, at the Battle of Red Mountain.

Circa 2E 547 (interestingly only twenty or so years apart from when ES Online is supposed to take place). The Nords and Dunmer ally under Almalexia and the Ash King to defeat Ada'Soom Dir-Kamal at Red Mountain.

4E 6 The Nords provide food and shelter to Dunmer refugees, and cede Solstheim to them.

Apparently they just want to be united against a common enemy. But it's not all the races united, it's 3 seperate factions, and they're all enemies with each other. But why would the Nords be enemies with Bretons and Redguards to the point that they would side with Dunmer and Argonians rather than them?

The Nords have rarely ever gotten along with the Bretons and, especially, the Redguards. Off hand, I remember them defeating a joint Breton-Redguard army during the Imperial Simulacrum, not to mention the attacks they made on the Direnni Hegenomy, and they've warred with the Redguards at every opportunity, even apparently splitting the city of Dragonstar, Cold-War-style, between them and the Redguards.

Nords hate Necromancy. Dunmer hate Necromancy. Mannimarco=Necromancer of all Necromancers.
The Nords and Dunmer have fought each other over the same territory, but they have spent more time living alongside each other in (relative) peace.
The other human races are aliies of a common enemy to the Nords and the Dunmer-The Orsimer. Trinimac did steal the Heart of Shor, and attempted to stop the Velothi migration to Morrowind. The Bretons are still perfectly happy to switch sides in mid battle. I do not know of a Lore reason why Nords would dislike Redgaurds during the timeframe set by ESO.

So I understand that certain races/nations unite to stand strong against a common threat, but why seperate factions? Those are fragile alliances already so what's preventing a much bigger collaboration? Why the hate between those factions?

(I'm new to the Lore, but very eager to learn and get into it. Oh well; I kind of found my new favourite universe, I guess. Call it a hobby.)

Thank you.

I mean, I'm willing to give the game a chance, but at the moment, all the lore that's coming out of it just seems [censored] stupid.

Don't even get me started on the Tharn/Mannimarco/Molag Bal supervillain teamup.

Oh, and why is the Aldmeri Dominion being portrayed as a player faction, while the Empire are the bad guys!?
(And BTW, the Empire better have Tsaesci in it- I assume it's set during the time after the Potentates fell, but before Tiber Septim rose to power, after all)

Another thing- assuming it's after the Potentates and the formation of the Aldmeri Dominion, but before Tiber, why exactly are the Orcs not being slaughtered on sight? Orsinium wouldn't be a province anymore.

- Vivec, The Trial of Vivec.

So...Zenimax, did this particular quote serve as inspiration to come up with the Ebonheart Pact?

I find it weird and kind of out-of-character for the Temple and its Tribunes to stick their noses into Cyrodiilic matters.
However, the Daggerfall Covenant takes the cake.

I like to point out the idea of a http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1371994-teso-actually-coldharbour/

Great story twist, would explain a lot and let the 'original' lore untouched.

^
This makes me think of too many "Legion of Doom" jokes.


How long could that alliance last?!

I disagree.
I believe there are lore friendly explanations possible for the Ebonheart pact and I have posted my explanation on many, many threads now.

The important point here is that, unlike many other fantasy shows or what tv insists is sf, that in TES races are not all the same trope.
For instance, all Ferengi are scheming traders, all Minbari are crystal spire atlanteans.
There is no such thing as an entire race equals --- in TES, they are more like real societies in that there are many factions and opinions inside the society and that it is not uncommon for those who are an enemy one year to be a friend the next.

I hope they pull another crazy "warp in the west"-like thing (Nirn Warp? ) and just decided "none of the TES: O crap ever happened" as canon for future games...

Thats not neccesary.
All that needs to happen is to invent something that ends the political situation of the MMO's, in order to facilitate the rise of empreror Cuhlecain.
Who wins what in the end should be largely irrelevant, the events can be desribed as such:

During the interregnum after the assasination of the last Akaviri potentate several large power blocks emerged in the political landscape.
Bretony, Hammerfell and Orsinium to the west, The Nord and Argonians allied themselves with the living gods of Morrowind and the first and tentative emergence of the Aldmeri Dominion to the south.
These political molochs faced a threat from the heartland of Cyrod, who's ruling family had made a pact with Mannimarco.
Unbeknownst to them however, Mannimarco was scheming with Molag Bal in order to hurl Tamriel into the Coldharbour plane of Oblivion.
Little written records remain of that period but we know that eventually Mannimarco was defeated, driven out of Cyrodiil and fled to Daggerfall.
Whoever claimed the ruby throne at that time (of course the Bretony, Altmer and Dunmeri scholars all claim it was their particular legendary hero and no-one elses) history does not recall but it was a short-lived victory.

By 2E800 the ruby throne was firmly in the hand of emperor zeroth, Cuhlecain.

1. The rest of the races are invading Cyrodiil - we're the bad guys (yeah I know Tharn leads them, but it still stands).

2. Redguards + Orcs = A fighting force good enough to take on the empire.

If we're lucky, this will be the representation of either Molag Bal or Mannimarco:

http://theterrace.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/skeletor-2.jpg

The GI article implied internal strife, especially with the Argonians who, if my interpretation is correct, did not join this pact willingly.

Ease up and prepare your texts. Nothing is more sobering than people correcting lore in-game, so if you buy it (and you will) then correct things as you see them instead of wailing about partial information.

Such is the purpose of the Selective, as I understand it.