Spirits of all sorts can remain on Nirn for various reasons. Whether bound by a necromancer (that one ship in oblivion, every ancestral tomb ever, necromancer lairs), or because something is holding them back (that one ghost who wants you to find his body and untie it in oblivion). A wraith is just an unfriendly spirit that is semi-corporeal. I have seen it suggested that even these unsheathed souls are being torn at by the dreamsleeve though.

Lets say you took your own soul and put it in the body of Mozart. Even though you inhabit Mozart's body, you're not going to be able to play and write what he was able to do. Same anology applies.

But you'd be a lich and have time to research, and if it all possible his "magicka reserve" (unless it resides in the soul). You could use your already expert knowledge as a basis. But also to be questioned is if you have any access to memory or knowledge stored within the body IF it is possible to transfer bodies (and make that body into a lich).

In the case of none of the above being possible, then oh well, lol. But it makes me wonder who has tried it before, if any. I mean someone had to be crazy enough to experiment with it, even if it doesn't exist yet.

But this is all off-topic now, sadly, lol.

It could have had something to due with the specific power Vuhon was able to steal/harness from Clavicus Vile. Perhaps he was able to control them individually, hence why they were marching in military form.

Did you ever go into an ancestral tomb in Morrowind? They were lousy with skeletons and bonewalkers. In fact skeletons were pretty much the most commonly-encountered tomb guardians in the game. Fact of the matter is, you can soultrap undead in Morrowind and Oblivion. You are completely unable to soultrap Dwemer constructs as they're artificial creations and thus have no souls. The Dunmer and the Redguards despise necromancy specifically because it requires the manipulation of souls to work. In fact that's what it is when you get right down to it. It's seen as cruel and evil because existence within the Mundus is literally painful for the dead, which come to think of it is a very good explanation for why randomly occurring specters are all so ornery.



Don't think of magicka as a thing or substance that exists within the body, or within the soul. In fact don't really try to define "soul" in an explicit sense. It's that thing that animates you, the most fundamental part of your existence. Its properties are poorly understood at best. Magicka itself seems to be linked to the power of your soul, though, as the limits of an enchanted item's power are defined by the soul that powers it. In a living person it would seem to be determined by a number of factors. The birthsigns have some effect on a person's potential power, but it's more like a knack for magicka absorption than anything else. After all, through rigorous practice a mage can increase his ability to hold onto magicka for future use.

At any rate, forcing yourself into another person's body would really not do all that much for your magical ability. The amount of work and study that would have to go into such a process would be far greater than simply meditating and practicing your spellcasting to increase your potential reserves.

I wasn't referring to Vuhon and his minions. Plus, those were wormies.

You can cure dead in TES (and therefore you can cure undead), there are many examples, like the witches that cure you from lycanthropy in Bloodmoon (btw: they are from the same coven that cure you from vampirism in Oblivion).

Lycanthropy doesn't kill you, and the fact that vampires still have metabolic functions means they're still not undead.

Yeh, but the girl had to be sacrificed during the ritual and than she was brought back to life.
And talking about "metabolic functions" in TES? You know, there are people here that will bite your head off for bringing real world science into TES.

Oh come the [censored] on. People still need to breath, eat, drink, and [censored]. Those functions cease when one is dead. [censored]ing about saying "metabolic functions" instead of "doing things in order to live" is a matter of semantics.

I haven't noticed that vampires have to eat or drink. They can drown in water, but I would consider this game mechanics not lore.

They have to breath, they do eat but blood is primarily their food and drink. Also, the DB vampire does make a reference that he does consume food, but is highly allergic to garlic. I'm also sure that vampires still have to [censored] and urinate.

There is a difference between "they have to eat" and "they can eat".
I believe that consuming blood have different meaning for vampires than consuming food have for living creatures. It is common for undead beings to consume blood in real world mythology. I think it can be about stealing the life force that they miss.

There was that lich http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Erandur-Vangaril in Lost Boy Cavern. And the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Folded_Page#Lost_Boy_Cavern that accompanied it.

Oh woops, thought thats what you meant. What zombie were you referring to?

The one that captured Attrebus.

The one that brought him to the Minister? I'm sorry my memory just needs some jogging. I think I just assumed that it was under the spell of Umbriel. The chapter ended right there I think, and I wasn't expecting the minister to be the one behind it, so I just chalked it up to Vuhon prematurely and never thought about it again.

Thought it was a zombie, not a wormy. Could be wrong.

Since when can you "cure" dead? Or undead, for that matter? Rather, what do you mean by cure? It sounds like resurrection, which isn't curing. As for curing the divine curse Lycanthropy or Vampirism, sure, you can sure that. Because it's a disease. Not a state of being undead. You can't cure zombies or skeletons, liches, ghosts/wraiths. Maybe a disease on them, sure.



Lol I know that all too well, as well. I've had them snap at me, but there are logical things within TES (aka some science at the root), like metabolic functions. =P



Aren't wormies just zombies created magically by ol' Manni?




They do need to consume a life force, for whatever reason. Since there are different types of vampires, it's hard to say why in a general sense. I think the Morrowind clans need to eat or "die". But don't hold me to that, and feel free to correct. But we could even take the case of Count Hassildor's wife, who didn't eat and was incredibly weak, or from what I remember. And while eating for Cyrodillic vampires may make them closer to human, and not eating makes them stronger, I would say it's actually a bad thing to not eat. Not eating seems to make them wild and feral, and I would suspect they'd obviously grow weaker/etc over time, making the strength side effect wear off.



In the case of Cyrodillic vampires, maybe like Count Hassildor, he probably may eat infront of other nobles to keep up appearances. Speculation, but I think he does.



Real world mythology? This is TES. But we also have a non-mythological creature that requires blood -- the vampire bat. With that, we can hypothesis that Vampires in TES may be the same, which is more or less the same thing you are saying (stealing life force), but less on the life force and more on the nutrition of it, which again, to bring science and metabolic functions into it, would make since. Malnourished vampires grow weaker.

The wormies I was talking about are the worm infested corpses that Umbriel creates. They're not zombies, but recently deceased bodies taken over by the worms of Umbriel. Almost like The Plaguas in Resident Evil 4 and 5, except much more intelligent.

Alright, good point Hellmouth. I didn't realize that the worms were in their bodies. That makes alot of sense now that I think about it. At least to how Umbriel was controlling them.

I meant resurrect, I should put the word cure into quotation marks, sorry for the confusion.


I was talking about real world mythology because we don't have any exact definition what being undead actually means and it seems that the word undead means the same in TES as it does in real world mythology. And because in real world mythology it is common for undead to consume something (blood for vampires, human flash for zombies) I think that the argument that vampires can consume something in TES can't be used to argue that they are not undead. It also seems that the blood for vampires doesn't serve them as sustenance (i.e. something they need to survive), because there are examples of vampires locked for a long time (years) without food, fore example the vampires you kill for Azura or Lovidicus.

Except it actually is, because living things need sustenance. Vampires need to feed, hence why they do. Otherwise, why do it? Yes, they can go long times, but eventually it weakens them, drives them crazy. Or that's what seems to happen. Blood renews them, nourishes. An example of not eating for extended periods would be Hassildor's wife.



Understanding that part, it means that she NEEDED to feed in order to stay healthy, meaning vampires who don't eat grow weaker. I wouldn't say it exactly kills them if they don't, as he needed the cure to help her "find peace." But they definitely do need to eat.

We can use it to argue because they need to feed, and they also can reproduce. No other undead can reproduce. No other undead feeds, whether for nutrition or otherwise. In fact, all other undeads are dead bodies or decayed/decaying. Vampires are not. The other undeads also go through a process where they're either dead or force their body to die. While it is suggested vampires die, I don't personally think they do. There are also no other cures for any other undead. If I give a cure to a vampire, however, they suddenly become alive?

I need to go to class, so I will stop here. I may edit it later when I am on campus.

They obviously need the blood to keep strength, however they don't die if they don't get blood - there is no example of vampire dying from starvation (at least that I know of). Rona Hassildor "lived" for fifty years without consuming anything. So vampires don't need to feed, the reason why they feed is to keep strength, to look pretty and the main reason is that the like it.
As to why other undead don't feed: I would guess that the difference is that vampires don't decay - it is also reason why they can be so "simply" brought back to live (unlike other undead).

Yes, but in a way they also grow stronger as mentioned before. I think it varies by willpower also. Rona never liked feeding and thus she slipped into a coma. Lord Lovidicus on the other hand was awake for decades without feeding at all. It drove him mad, but nevertheless it kept him wandering around.



Indeed not feeding might make them go wild and feral, in the case of Lord Lovidicus. Jakben also mentioned he had to gain a measure of control over his blood frenzy, which in a way contradicts the whole "For Clavicus guidance steels our savage craving" and such. But I believe vampires do eat food, while blood is the only nuttrition they need to sustain themselves, they might eat food to keep up apperances as you said. But I guess few deny themselves the act of eating food, as Vicente Valtieri is believe to eat, but complains from Antoinette's garlic. But it is heavily implied that Janus Hassildor eats food and does feed to keep himself healthy.

"The Count is very particular about his food and drink. Everything must be just so."

"More than 50 years ago, my wife Rona and I were both turned into vampires. While I came to embrace the changes in myself, she did not. She hated what she had become, and refused to feed to keep herself healthy."

Edit: Ninja'd by a longshot concerning the quotes. But just throwing a little fun fact out there, even a weak vampire is relatively stronger than most undead. I reckon they wouldn't be as powerful as a Lich though.

"Vampires vary in their substance and power according to their age and accumulated lore, but even the weakest vampire is immeasurably stronger than most other undead."-Legions of the Dead.