She still died of starvation, it only just took longer.\

Also, Legions of the Undead is taken from the viewpoint of dunmer, who take horrific offense to vampires and the undead (unless it was a Temple member that did it). To them, they see no difference, and likely see the part of being a vampire on the third day as "they died and came back" instead of "they went unconscious, appear dead, and came back up."

Yeah, following the cure. After she drank the cure she died because her body was already weak.

Being awake does require a level of stress and energy consumption, while being asleep doesn't require as much.

I am not entirely convinced that the starvation was reason for her condition I believe that it was caused by her psychical state, Lovidicus was without food for more than twenty years yet he was quite fit.
Either way the fact remains that she died after drinking the potion.

If you don't like Legions of the Dead as a source, than let me quote Arkay The Enemy (there can be no one more qualified than Mannimarco himself):
Send missionaries to the unbound dead, to the Vampires and the Liches. Let all the nations of dead carry my banner and my banner alone.

She was without food for more than 50 years. We don't know how many more years, but the count said more than 50 years. Big difference between twenty or so and fifty or so/greater. She did hate what she became, but psychologically (while possible), I think in this scenario it is near infinitely improbable for it to cause a never ending coma. If she fed, she'd be fine.

And yes, she died after drinking the potion because it made her truly weak, her body couldn't handle it. That isn't to say that without the cure, her body wouldn't have died, it would've just taken longer, and Janus didn't want to wait. He wanted her to rest in peace.

What we (I) do know about Vampires:

• Considered undead by characters within TES, but isn't beyond a reasonable doubt they are undead.
  
• They require blood as nourishment and to satiate themselves, as evidence through countless examples.
  
• Lack of eating causes them to grow weak and made, much like one would with normal food, which can lead to brain loss/function, resembling the same mad pattern.
  
• It is unknown how long it would take a vampire to die from not eating, but it can be inferred that ~50 is when a vampire would potentially enter a comatose state. This could prolong the time it takes to reach death.
  
• This comatose state could be similar to that of a real world mythological vampire entering a sleeping state, albeit for different reasons, where the RW vampire would awaken decades or centuries later.
  
• The chances of having cognitive function, or any function, would be unlikely as the body would be rendered physically weak to the point only a coma seems likely. (Speculation)
  
• Considered to have died to become a vampire, whether literal or figurative.
  
• Behaves as a disease in every way, even called one, but is also a Divine curse as well. (Though I'd personally consider it a viral infection)
  
• Can reproduce sixually, producing offspring. Whether the offspring are truly half vampire and half other is unknown, as we only have one case, and the only apparent difference are aesthetic.
  
• Aside from phenotypes noticed in the only known Half-vampire offspring, he also has more than average enhanced combative abilities, suggesting abilities from Vampire parent were passed on and are heredity.
  
• Vampires differ majorly by clan, suggesting there are "biological" reasons for the difference from one ancestral disease/curse into many. (As far as I am aware, there is only one)

I am starting my microbiology lab now (in-class, finished test, was waiting for others to finish), so I need to stop here. But feel free to add or correct. But I believe aside from 1 or 2, they are "fact".

Good post. And the born a vampire scenario was shown once. I think it may be possible for two vampire parents to conceive a vampire offspring?

I can't think of a single example of that happening.

The fact that the lord had a kid with the orc maid was something of an utter fluke, as noted in his diary. It's likely he just fed or fed recently, thus weakening the curse as that is what CV's pact seems to do. As such, was able to have a kid, due to being less vampirey and allowed his balls to work for once. That, or orsimer women are VERY fertile.

Reproduction doesn't seem to be on the minds of most vampires we've seen. There are a variety of reasons, but even those that don't seem to have a tangible reason never come off as having any interest in such.

Or perhaps he wasn't the only man she was with.

Except if he stated it was a fluke, he would've probably also noted whether he fed or not, considering he knows what it does biologically to him (making him more "human"). I don't think someone could really figure it was a fluke without looking at such variables. But even if that is the case, that he fed, it doesn't change anything. He still is a vampire through and through.

Can somebody explain to me why two vampires can't reproduce? Has it been stated somewhere?

It hasn't been stated either way whether two vampires can or not. I would personally say they can, given the fact that they can at least parent a child with a non-vampire. Since those "tools" still work, if you have a male and female vampire, and assuming both still work, then yes, you can.

As Anthro said, it's never happened. We've seen a case of a vampire father, but nothing on females, and the one case we have indicates vampirism isn't inheritable from a father.

I think in the Grey Prince's case if his mother had been the vampire in the relationship her son would have been a vampire. We need more vampire lore.

However, it is more than well worth noting that the offspring showed signs of "super-human" abilities. That is, more than above average. Also worth noting is his complexion, which suggests that more traits were passed on, perhaps that mutated his "pigments". Given that the maternal parent was not a vampire, it is possible that it makes the Gray Prince a carrier (in a manner of speaking), simply for the fact that offspring are generally the same race as the mother. Now, while a vampire isn't a race, I'd speculate that having a vampire as your mother would cause more mutations within the child.

Now, after that point, we can speculate and hypothesize on MANY things, about how the child would be. Which would be a lot of fun, honestly.

his pigmentation could also easily be caused by the fact that his father was an imperial, and as for his abilities, they were never definitively shown to be matter of supernatural talent rather than training and skill. IN fact, his dialogue implies he spends nearly all his time training, and can't afford to take a break in training to complete the quest himself.

Awfully big coincidence eh?


While it may be gameplay mechanics, I do find it interesting that turn undead works on everything but vampires(With the implication being there's no bound soul as there is with any other undead, implying they never died in the first place).

Mainly because, when a creature dies in TES, its soul seperates pretty much instantly. If there's a soul trap enchantment the soul is funneled into a soulgem instead of departing for the dreamsleeve. Undead are created via binding a soul to soulless body through certain magicks. Turn undead works by disrupting the magicks in place on the soul. They don't fully destroy them but it disrupts it enough that the commands the necromancer gave it are able to be ignored. Most turned undead seem frightened, and run away. If you give chase, they'll turn around and attack but go back to running if you back off. Perhaps they're just reflecting the nature of the soul that was bound to it. Then again perhaps it's the feeling of the soul trying to return to the dreamsleeve that drives them to such behavior.

Tell me about it, right? lol

Yeah, it's a big coincidence. And I would firstly doubt that him being a man (the father) had anything to do with it before I ever started to doubt the vampire half.

And yes, he does train, a lot. But so do a lot of other of the Arena competitors, I bet. At some point, training isn't enough, you need to have talent. And it works in reverse, too. He didn't rise to be the top simply by training, there has to be something special about him. And aside from gameplay aspect, or if you caused him to not fight (the quest), it's possible he'd be a hell of a fight for us while playing. If it was a realistic world, we may have lost/died.

But the impression I got while playing was that ever since anyone has known him, he has been this powerful... Vorc. lol. Yes, I like Vorc. He's been this powerful Vorc that utterly dominated. It's, as Cec says, an "Awfully big coincidence eh?"

I'd like to emphasize here that it is just pure speculation that vampire would die at some point without feeding. This is just my feeling, but it doesn't make sense to me, how someone who manages to survive for 50 years without any food, could die from starvation.

There is no doubt that it starts as a disease, the thing is what happens next.

Grey prince seems to be an exception, a divine intervention from Mara perhaps... there is no other example. Also the ability to reproduce doesn't have to contradict that they are undead.


I think it is gameplay mechanics, there are two reasons why I think so: 1. Vampires are classified as "NPC" other undead are classified as "creatures". 2. There is this passage from Vampires of Vvardenfell: ...The "ash vampire" of Ashlander legend is not undead. Sorceries and blessings affecting the undead reportedly have no effect on these creatures. I know that it doesn't directly say that magic against undead works on vampires, but why mention that it doesn't work against ash vampires then?

I don't think there are any other examples of Vampires having six. There is only one other vampire in the lore with an extant line of descendants that I can think of, and she gave birth BEFORE she became a vampire. (that being Dhaunayne Aundae) I can't think of any vampires, outside of Lord Lovidicus, that have been confirmed to have had six while being a vampire.

From what we know about Lord Lovidicus it seems that men don't lost their appetite after becoming a vampire, so there can be a lot of vampires having six, they just don't talk about it.

They fall into a death-like coma and are changed by the disease?


Arkay and Dibella wouldn't appreciate that. And Mara helping someone who willingly became a monster that feeds off of others and possibly infecting them as well? "Offend not against the peace of Mara."



So if there's an undead attribute for creatures...doesn't seem that hard to classify NPCs too(Especially considering they don't get infected, and no one ever casts turn undead on the player). Oblivion-NPC-Undead-Vampire. Unless they (un)consciously left it out. Would've been simple enough in Morrowind too, you can actually talk to creatures, transform the player into a creature, but they left it out there too. It really seems like an actual purposeful choice on the devs part.

Mara was just an example, but who knows, the gods are unpredictable and their motives are mysterious.


I don't have Morrowind or Oblivion installed to check in CS how it actually works, I think that in Morrowind you couldn't mark NPC as undead which would suggest that the devs didn't really gave it a thought. But I consider the quote from Vampires of Vvardenfell more important in this case.

I consider the vampire's bodily functions acting as if they were alive more important.(Whereas no undead share this characteristic)