What Lore was stepped on when Bethesda got their hands on th

Post » Fri May 04, 2012 7:22 am

...

People with knowledge like he does are not in the warzone - let alone frontlines. You don't hand vital strategic info and nuke codes to a guy who might get captured or die from an enemy bullet.

The situation implies for mind control - hence the "uuh, aag, the launch codes are, I can't, eek, the codes uuh, no I will not...". Why is that not used against you or the other survived captives is just sloppy writing on Bethesdas part, like the whole DLC.


The "enough times"... I've done this debate enough times to know people in your position won't budge.
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Katy Hogben
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 7:33 pm

I really think that anyone who tries to disect the aliens "motivations" is fighting a lose-lose battle. Yes, if they wanted to destroy humanity why would they have been around since the times of the Oda Samuria, on the other hand I find it hard to believe that in having been over the Earth for 700 years that they're objectives would have remained the same Papa.

Even though they don't speak English they are clearly asking the guy questions telepathically. I do think that it's supposed to be hinting at the Aliens having something to do with the war personally, or at least that was the implication.

But seriously, don't even try to think about it. 700 years, imagine getting the crew of a ship to basically however in place over the planet just to pluck random people up and record them. It's suggesting that this ship has been in use for 700 years, that the crew has basically lived there for that long; look at 700 years of human history people, a lot of [censored] tends to change.

As a DLC it was written for lulz and nothing more, Samurai are cool let's put one in; true motivations for the aliens were never created and debating them is pointless.
I'm not saying they were out to destroy the Earth, I'm saying they were there to herd people and create the Abominations, much like the humans were creating super soliders with F.E.V. Both races were aiming for the same thing - create super soldiers - and both had the same results (through different circumstances) - Mindless Abominations and Super Mutants/Failed F.E.V Experiments.

With a ship the size of Zeta I'd assume it was big enough to have it's own on-board farm and agriculture so staying there for 700 years might not actually be so hard to do, especially if the populace of Earth poses no threat. I've not speculated that their goal was the same for over 700 years but it would have evolved from simple observation, then after X many years of anolysing the Earths atmosphere they put another X many years into creating technology to bring humans aboard the ship and sending Alien down onto the planet, then X many years getting first hand knowledge of the human system from abducted humans. Finally in recent times after many years of research they begin creating "super aliens" that fail - and thats where we come in. Thats just me trying to sum up 700 long years of research :shrug:
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Stephanie Valentine
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 10:47 pm

snip

I'm really just questioning what kind of culture would send the crew of this ship to this planet for such a length of time, I was actually suggesting it was the decendants of the original crew who are now serving because... well 700 years. I just can't take it seriously, socities, cultures and technology change so much over such an enormous length of time and here it clearly wasn't even a second thought compared to just making everything cool and giving us good loot. It's a B-Movie of a DLC, just enjoy it for whatever thrill it provides but don't think about it or expect it to be taken seriously.
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Breanna Van Dijk
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 2:34 am

People with knowledge like he does are not in the warzone - let alone frontlines. You don't hand vital strategic info and nuke codes to a guy who might get captured or die from an enemy bullet.

The situation implies for mind control - hence the "uuh, aag, the launch codes are, I can't, eek, the codes uuh, no I will not...". Why is that not used against you or the other survived captives is just sloppy writing on Bethesdas part, like the whole DLC.


The "enough times"... I've done this debate enough times to know people in your position won't budge.
Right, I just assumed his position on the field but where he came from is unknown right now - but in any case he'd still be panicing, see the other logs for their reactions.

Right well if 1 situation "implies" mind control - why don't the rest of the civilian ones, wait why the fudge would civilians be there is they wanted to blow up the Earth? - Or just chop that up to lazy writers/developers?
But really, why was the mind control not used on the other soldiers and goverment personnel that were abducted?
I don't see any implication that they wanted nuke codes to blow up the Earth if at the same time they were working on making "super-alien" hybrids.

The use of the word "you" then was the issue, I'd willingly stop debating the issue if you could actually hit me with evidence that strongly suggests the Alien were after the nuke codes specifically and furthermore to nuke China - and why of all the locations in the world they'd use Americas nukes on China. But then again if you've done it enough times, why pick it up again, just can't get enough :shrug:
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Kat Ives
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 1:00 am

I'm really just questioning what kind of culture would send the crew of this ship to this planet for such a length of time, I was actually suggesting it was the decendants of the original crew who are now serving because... well 700 years. I just can't take it seriously, socities, cultures and technology change so much over such an enormous length of time and here it clearly wasn't even a second thought compared to just making everything cool and giving us good loot. It's a B-Movie of a DLC, just enjoy it for whatever thrill it provides but don't think about it or expect it to be taken seriously.
Oh, right fair enough, I'm not arguing that the aliens on that ship are from 700 or so years ago and are the original ones on the expedition. Just because human behaviour changes over time doesn't mean everything else, especially alien life, is going to act completely the same. Maybe the alien have such great tech because they don't change behaviour patterns or goals, unlike humans who can barely get off the planet because of our inability to cooperate and work towards our goals as one - the reason we spread throughout the world.
I never put much thought into any of the DLC but this one is an interesting topic that I only think about in the heat of the moment - like right now. I just dislike the idea the aliens may have done the war, it's more annoying when who ever says it doesn't provide any evidence to why they think it implies that. Its like one guy predicting the end is nigh and some gulible people follow suit and because a few believe it more do, and then more and so on, and each on knows less of what they believe than the previous until they're just going RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!
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ONLY ME!!!!
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 8:14 pm

I'm really just questioning what kind of culture would send the crew of this ship to this planet for such a length of time.
Well, some suggest that Grey's have been watching over our world for millenia's.
Their culture is surely vastly different from ours, especially in how their minds work.
Two separate species remember.

Hell, some Grey believers think they are a form of hive-mind.
Who knows.
We have no idea what their culture is like at all.
Going away for a millenia to do research might be something that they love?
Can't compare humans to little green men, we're not the same.
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Emerald Dreams
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 10:44 pm

...

You assume alot. And that's really all you (or I) can do about the motivations. But the implication remains there nonetheless.



I'd willingly stop debating the issue if you could actually hit me with evidence that strongly suggests the Alien were after the nuke codes specifically

From your post (Bolded the key sections for your convenience):
The codes to activate the launch sequences are...are...
uhhngh...no...I can't let you...uggh...get out of my mind!
(Alien Babble)
Agggh! The c-codes...are...ugh....no...I can't betray...AGH!
My head! I can't...won't...AGGGGH! agggh...

I already said there is no proof either way, but there is the implication and it's crystal clear.
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Jynx Anthropic
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 8:48 am

You guys forgetting that the ship had a massive ass gun that could destroy cities with one shot? Hardly needed the nukes.

When I was playing through it I didn't interpret them as being the causes of the war. Just thought they were experimenting on people.
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Fam Mughal
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 5:16 am

It’s funny trying to explain what exactly is wrong with FO3, because a lot of it sounds goofy. “The Vault Doors are different”, and “They still use caps,” sound like nitpicking. But that’s because it’s missing the context of what those things meant in Fallout 1.
These weren’t just aesthetic choices or (like many FO3 changes) done because they were ‘cool’. These have history and lore behind them, lore that’s an important part of the world and the setting of Fallout. There's a reason the Vaults work the way they do in FO1/2. The history of the cap is tied up with the history of the Hub and the water traders.
It might not matter to most people, but fans of the series notice these things. We love the setting, we love the world and to see these elements reused out of context, devoid of their history, is a source of much complaining.


There are a bunch of other things that FO3 messes up, not directly related to the older games.
In FO2, NCR was already a powerhouse, having set up a Republic it was expanding outwards. It brought with it education and a much higher standard of living. About the same time, the citizens of Vault City had an almost modern lifestyle.
Meanwhile, 36 years later in the nation’s capital, they have yet to master the use of a broom to clear out their own living areas. And the idea of raiding that store a few meters to the south for its resources is apparently a shocking innovation that’s yet to occur to them.
For most of the people living in Fallout 2 the pre-war world, 200 years prior, was ancient history. And for some it was merely a fable or legend.
36 years later in the Capital Wastes they reference the summer catalogues, have an intimate knowledge of social trends and are just getting around to writing a survival guide that’s about 180 years too late.

If only Beth had ditched their dumb “always go forward” rule and make FO3 a prequel to the originals, this wouldn’t have been an issue.
Vault Door is nitpicking. One goes out, the other goes in. There is no 'deep meaning' to the doors closing, just a different aesthetic.

As for the 'Caps are silly' arguements. I consider any and all arguements against 3's use of caps null and void because they don't want to apply any real thought to it. It's been proven that traders come from all over in each game, it's not implausible to believe various traders through time have gone 'Hey, you guys should do what we do back home, we use bottlecaps because they aren't easy to counterfeit.' Granted the Hub's were backed by water where as 3's economy is backed by the belief in the cap (Much like the U.S. Dollar), and they can't switch to U.S. Dollars or a unique coin like 2's because Fallout 2 had a centralized government in the region, D.C. not so much, no one to back a unified 'new' currency.

As for the intimate knowledge of the Pre-War world, don't forget D.C. is just one city, not a large region like Fallout or Fallout 2's maps. It's not to inconceivable for regions like Fallout's core region that people, having to adapt to SoCal's largely desert biome, would adapt a more survivalist nature. D.C. is a Pre-War metropolis, everything is there to re-use.

The problem with Fallout 3, as I must keep saying since no one bloody listens to a word I say, Fallout 3 doesnt 'abuse' lore. It's got a bad habit of using things, but with no explanation WHY it's there.
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Chrissie Pillinger
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 12:49 am

As for the 'Caps are silly' arguements....

The caps were unique to the setting of Fallout 1. If traders did indeed move around, why wouldn't the minted coins from Fallout 2 come to the CW when caps were already scrapped as a currency? (disclamer: Fallout 2 did not have centralized government. The settlements and cities were independent and only commercing with each other until the NCR annexed them after the Enclave was destroyed by The Chosen One.)
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x a million...
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 6:09 am

The caps were unique to the setting of Fallout 1. If traders did indeed move around, why wouldn't the minted coins from Fallout 2 come to the CW when caps were already scrapped as a currency? (disclamer: Fallout 2 did not have centralized government. The settlements and cities were independent and only commercing with each other until the NCR annexed them after the Enclave was destroyed by The Chosen One.)
Because caps would automatically be useless. I honestly cannot say why specifically ingame caps became the Capital Wastelands currency because I am not Bethesda nor an employee, just a fan boy of the entire series as a whole. That said, if some guy has thousands of caps, comes to some bumble screw backwoods place in terms of progress like D.C. you would want to get rid of those caps. Or maybe some genuine progress minded guy/bird came through and wanted to help people out and the idea spread.

As for NCR, I'm aware of that, but it's evident NCR was growing rapidly, enough for the gold coins NCR printed to be currency in places such as Klamath. The day your coin is valuable outside of you being involved is the day you've already virtually expanded and taken over that town.
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An Lor
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 7:31 am

Just a comment, in discussions like this... if you look at your posts and see that you've basically been saying the same thing over and over, and sounding quite insistent that you are "right", as opposed to just giving your opinion on what you think about something in game, then take a step back, or take a break from the thread and the debate.
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Chris Johnston
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 11:46 pm

snip
snip
What really annoyed me about Mothership Zeta was that Bethesda didn't even try to do something original with the aliens. They just made them into what the people of the 50's assumed aliens would look like and thus rammed that theme even further down our throats. Creatures from other planets are probably so vastly different then ours that we can't hope to comprehend their intentions or desires, or even if they have desires. They might perceive time differently then us so 700 years might be nothing to them, we don't know if they ingest nutrients differently then us, they might not need food, water or even breath what we breath. We don't know if their intentions would be peace, war or even if they think in those terms.

One thing I can say is that if they've been over Earth for 700 years, have had dozens or hundreds of captured humans from a range of times and have a knowledge of linguistics then I'd say it would be nearly impossible for them not to learn a few languages in that time. The basic thing you need to learn a completely new language is a conversation with someone who speaks that language. You need to say something and have them respond to it, if they say the same thing every time you lift up a ball then you can safely assume that what the other is saying means ball in their language.
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flora
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 11:40 pm

FO3 was my first Fallout game and have since played NV and I just bought FO1, FO2, and Tactics so forgive me I write something that is absolutely blasphemy. I took it that the Enclave was the remnant of the American military. If that is the case, is it not plausible then that the Enclave could have been stationed in more regions than just the West Coast? Or am I missing something from FO2?
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Assumptah George
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 11:33 pm

FO3 was my first Fallout game and have since played NV and I just bought FO1, FO2, and Tactics so forgive me I write something that is absolutely blasphemy. I took it that the Enclave was the remnant of the American military. If that is the case, is it not plausible then that the Enclave could have been stationed in more regions than just the West Coast? Or am I missing something from FO2?

Well since you are new I will not jump down your throat. But no the Enclave is not the remnants of the American Military. They were a group made up of military, government and companies that built Control Station Enclave as a means to survive the Great War. They declared themselves the American government. There is debate on their legitimacy.

Anyways no the enclave do not have bases all over America. The Enclave you see in Fallout 3 are the Remnants from Control Station Enclave and Navarro which were in Fallout 2. Canon wise the Enclave are all but dead. CSE and Navarro were their only lacation in the whole world. Chicago would have come after Fallout 2, when the Enclave moved from Navarro to Raven Rock.
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Lew.p
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 6:47 am

I'll jump in and give my opinion.

I really don't think Bethesda stepped on anything. They did perfectly fine, sold tons of copies, and made an enjoyable game. Whether it's a good Fallout game is clearly debatable as you all have shown, but I think it's a great Fallout game.


Where in the Canon does it CLEARLY state that "Aliens had NO, and I mean NO, association with the WAR or anything FALLOUT at ALL."

Show me some hard, non-wiki evidence and I will consider your response valid, but until then think about it: Do you really hate Aliens being in Fallout? If so, what's your logical reasoning?
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Josh Dagreat
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 6:06 pm

Fallout 2 Intro

"War. War never changes. The end of the world occurred pretty much as we had predicted; too many humans and not enough space or resources to go around. The details are trivial and pointless, the reasons as always, purely human ones. "

That right there is all the canon evidence needed. Humans alone caused the great war. Including aliens in the game breaks canon. It turns Fallout from a game about humanity rebuilding from our biggest mistake into a "War of the Worlds" "Risistance" type game.

You want aliens go play:

Resistance 1, 2, 3
Dead Space
Killzone 1,2 3
Mass Effect 1,2, 3
Starcraft 1 and 2.

I could go one. Spamming the forum with "Aliens" and trying to draw people into pointless debates that you damn well know will out of hand is very annoying. IF all you have to contribute to this forum is "Aliens" then please go away.
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Campbell
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 4:56 am

Fallout 2 Intro

"War. War never changes. The end of the world occurred pretty much as we had predicted; too many humans and not enough space or resources to go around. The details are trivial and pointless, the reasons as always, purely human ones. "

That right there is all the canon evidence needed. Humans alone caused the great war. Including aliens in the game breaks canon. It turns Fallout from a game about humanity rebuilding from our biggest mistake into a "War of the Worlds" "Risistance" type game.

You want aliens go play:

Resistance 1, 2, 3
Dead Space
Killzone 1,2 3
Mass Effect 1,2, 3
Starcraft 1 and 2.

I could go one. Spamming the forum with "Aliens" and trying to draw people into pointless debates that you damn well know will out of hand is very annoying. IF all you have to contribute to this forum is "Aliens" then please go away.

The reasons always being human ones? Yes, and Aliens could have the technology to eat through that. Details are trivial and pointless? Sounds sloppily written to me...

I play Mass Effect, but I like the classic aliens of Fallout. I like Mass Effect, but not for the same reasons as Fallout.

Plus, I don't go around spamming "HERP DERP I LAIKE ALIENS!" I always give reasons behind it and everything. Really, you stoop down to telling me to go away? Pfft, how weak. I could tell you to go away for being a jerk and thinking you're better because you think Aliens shouldn't be in Fallout.

You think I'm trolling? Hardly. Quiet the opposite; I respect Aliens, I like to see them in the world of Fallout, and they fit in pretty well with anything.
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GPMG
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 5:17 am

The reasons always being human ones? Yes, and Aliens could have the technology to eat through that. Details are trivial and pointless? Sounds sloppily written to me...

I play Mass Effect, but I like the classic aliens of Fallout. I like Mass Effect, but not for the same reasons as Fallout.

Plus, I don't go around spamming "HERP DERP I LAIKE ALIENS!" I always give reasons behind it and everything. Really, you stoop down to telling me to go away? Pfft, how weak. I could tell you to go away for being a jerk and thinking you're better because you think Aliens shouldn't be in Fallout.

You think I'm trolling? Hardly. Quiet the opposite; I respect Aliens, I like to see them in the world of Fallout, and they fit in pretty well with anything.
Gabriel made a couple posts in the ideas thread
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1352810-fallout-4-speculation-suggestions-ideas-thread-54/page__view__findpost__p__20397916
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1352810-fallout-4-speculation-suggestions-ideas-thread-54/page__view__findpost__p__20397948

You're telling me you don't spam out alien posts?
There are twelve of your posts where you either change other people's posts or make your own saying that aliens should be in the next game and you give no reasoning.
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Mrs. Patton
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 5:28 am

The reasons always being human ones? Yes, and Aliens could have the technology to eat through that. Details are trivial and pointless? Sounds sloppily written to me...
FO2 sloppily written?
"Aliens could have the technology to eat through that"?

*Dinosaur rage... building*
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Kyra
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 9:12 pm

Enough with the aliens.

Continuing to spam about aliens will have unfortunate results.
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Lyndsey Bird
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 10:59 pm

Details are trivial and pointless? Sounds sloppily written to me...
On a brief, serious note: Yes. The details are trivial and pointless. In the light of the nuclear war that followed, all the inter-nation bickering over oil and resources were trivial and pointless. In fact that the core of all the Fallout games is the theme of people ruining things for silly human reasons. It’s what Fallout is about: War. War never changes. Aliens do not fit that theme. I mean, they are a fun 50s Easter egg, but they are the antithesis of Fallout’s heart.

EDIT:
Dear lovely Mod-man.

This was written before the above post. Please do not wield your mighty ban hammer in my direction.

Yours sincerely,
Tel Prydain
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Kanaoka
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 12:01 am

They might not need food.
There are actually several lunch-trays of squid like food in their ship.
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Charles Mckinna
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 4:07 am

Well since you are new I will not jump down your throat. But no the Enclave is not the remnants of the American Military. They were a group made up of military, government and companies that built Control Station Enclave as a means to survive the Great War. They declared themselves the American government. There is debate on their legitimacy.

Anyways no the enclave do not have bases all over America. The Enclave you see in Fallout 3 are the Remnants from Control Station Enclave and Navarro which were in Fallout 2. Canon wise the Enclave are all but dead. CSE and Navarro were their only lacation in the whole world. Chicago would have come after Fallout 2, when the Enclave moved from Navarro to Raven Rock.


Alright, thanks for the clarification. Again, sorry if I am way off but is it canon then that the Enclave is in Chicago? Or is that just speculation? The only information on the Enclave being in Chicago is the playbacks from ED-E in Vegas.
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Tanya Parra
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 10:42 pm

There are actually several lunch-trays of squid like food in their ship.
I wonder if the grunts sit around the levitable talking about tight female alien buts at lunch break. And the commanders sit around the teak handcrafted human made table and talk about the crazy vault dweller with puppets that killed a bunch of them then rode on on a giant ant and if he'll come back.
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