Hey, man, don't knock the eating utensils. http://uesp.net/wiki/Shivering:The_Fork_of_Horripilation_%28item%29 when one is more than it seems...

EDIT: Hircine, it's true. In your list of "problems" with Oblivion's fast travel, you list several completely imaginary things (reduces exploration? Only if that's how you choose to play. No quests or things to do that you can't get to by fast travel? What?)

:rolleyes:

Exactly my point there. You're not willing to look at things from the perspective of those of us that dislike Oblivion's fast travel. When you're not willing to think open mindedly, you can't take part in such a discussion. It's a very obnoxious point of view.

And like I said before, incase you have trouble reading (It seems so), I'm not going to continue with these arguments. They're completely unrelated with the topic.

Bicker, bicker, bicker

Its no wonder only the usual suspects appear in threads like this when we behave so predictably

Things I like about all TES games I've played (so not Arena0

1. Sand-box world with near-endless replayability. Although I prefer MW Seti is right that theres a lot to find in Oblivion if you look. DF is not so hot from an exploration pov but the endless quests meant even less reason to follow along prelaid questlines if you didn't want to.
2. Freedom and flexability in character generation. After its DF high this seems to be reduced in each succesive game :sad. Hopefully will be reversed in TES V.
3. Interesting lore and quests: Reached a high for me in MW but not something I think its really possible to be objective about.
4. Moddability. Again greatly increase replayability of game. Also no game can be perfect for everyone. I like one that is designed to be as tinkerable with as possible. And no, it wouldn't be an answer to just make a better game since then the question of better for who has to be answered, and most attempts to divide players up reveal more about the writer's own prejudices than anything else.

Hm... and yet you're still here.

You can't criticize me for not being open-minded enough when you're spouting rubbish like "Oblivion's fast travel causes no need to create interesting and unique landscapes, Oblivion's fast travel causes no need to have random encounters, such as quests, along the roads, Oblivion's fast travel reduces exploring," completely ignoring all of the Daedric shrines, Ayleid ruins, miscellaneous settlements (Hackdirt still being one of my favorite scenarios in an Elder Scrolls game), and strange things to discover like Sideways Cave that you only find by taking the time to wander the world. I'm not the closed-minded one, sir.

Hah, what exactly is on-topic in this thread? Do we follow the thread's title as an indicator ("What makes TES great?"), or the OP's expressly-stated purpose for the thread ("How is Morrowind better than Oblivion?")?


Thanks - this thread's destiny is closure, but I'm glad to see that some of us approach it with a genuine desire to discuss the series (not the individual game) we love.

...

Saint Jiub, your sig made me laugh my ass off.

Nice list. That about covers it, but how are these mods(I don't have a decent enough PC for Oblivion and I don't feel like modding Morrowind, yet)? Are they still being made in a large number for both games? Elder Scrolls games actually being eternal sounds great.

The depth, this might seem a bit vague, but I don't really know how to discourse it.

Is it something along the lines of interesting lore and history for the gameworlds and gameworlds that resemble real worlds in their design, open-endedness, and various choices that make the games last a long time?

I think my favorite thing about the TES series is your ability to "own" your own piece of the myth:

In the beginning, one is free to craft their own hero/villain/neutral peon.

One is free to pursue whichever questline aligns with their character's ideals.

One is able to make their home wherever they deem fit - be it in town, in a musty cave, or on the road.

One is able to craft their own items and spells, naming them in the process and thereby making them their own. I name my spells after Shin Megami Tensei spells. Agi for fire, Bufu for Ice, Zio for electricity, Dia for healing, etc.

One is free to worship the Nine, the Daedra, or nothing at all. There are many different ways in which the divinities of the world can be interacted with. They can be honored, or betrayed.

...

Ultimately, I think TES is the ideal series for those kids who spent their 3rd grade math lessons drawing knights and dragons in the margins of their homework. TES provides an outlet for our creativity - all we need to do is allow ourselves to be immersed.

@Seti18 To answer your question, look no further than where the bulk of my time and posting on the forums goes. There are tons of great quest mods, landmasses, graphics enhancers, clothing mods (if that's your thing ) being made for Morrowind even now (including entries by our own Sir-Stabs-alot and Hircine ). I honestly believe that these games are eternal, as long as there are people who love them.

That is part of it, but it is also how Bethesda executes it.

I'm not really au fait with Oblivion mods but last time I looked there was some good stuff being made. MW mods are still being made, maybe not so many as in the past, but then theres such a large back catalogue already. I look at games like Civ II & III still being played and modded for and I see no reason why a RPG shouldn't have the same enduring appeal. After all each Civ game is basicly the same story (build an empire, conquer the world etc) whereas each TES game is a different region, period and main story.

I like that no two TES games are alike. It adds uniqueness to each one of them. Each game has its flaws, but each game has stuff that makes it awesome too. I could list the things that svck and that are awesome in each TES game, but I would have to type this for hours.

In reply to the OP.. personally I have no problem with the more familiar fantasy environment we got in Arena, Daggerfall, and Oblivion. The alien environment in Morrowind was more stimulating, but the familiar is more beautiful and relaxing. Either is good

As for what makes ES great, this list works for me too..



I'd also put "balanced gameplay" on the list but no TES since Arena has had this

Oh wait, I forgot one thing in my list of what makes the series great, music. From http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZx7CasVLyA and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ97I2p4_YY to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPw1nJxMvS0 and the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHGgBugeyHI, I love it all.

Hmm... I've just realised, there's no "bow" smileys. Lemme find something suitable...

http://www.mockpaperscissors.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/bow-and-flourish.jpg. ^_^

Freedom

As a game:
First Person
Freedom
Overall Game Design


Indirectly:
Modding
Replayability
Immersion

Content:
Lore
Quests
Culture
Artifacts
Characters
.
.
.

The detailed approach in a first person game with believable rich open game worlds that leads to ultimate immersion which is also FUN.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAHBMj2N5Qs

LOL! I'll defend a lot of stuff from Oblivion, but there's no way I'm defending the speechcraft mini-game. :lmao:

More to the point, Daggerfall might well be the last Bethesda game with a defensible speechcraft implementation.

Fallout 3 was a blatant dice roll right in the open, for the most part, which is probably very Fallout-ish, but not very appealing, given it was a hard succeed/fail. Once you botch it, there's no incentive to improve your skill and try again.
Oblivion's minigame is overpowered and bribes always succeed (even if you never need them).
Morrowind was equally bad in the opposite direction: the failure rate for anyone is so high that "the golden path" dominates any character not specifically designed around the skill... yet Taunt will always eventually succeed, providing for 100% legal murder. Might as well show the dice on-screen, much like Fallout 3.

"What makes Elder Scrolls a great game?"

Our imaginations.

http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/22717

Three words:
Telvanni Bug Musk

The point is to find yourself a bottle when you have to persuade at the low levels. There's always one available, although it becomes harder if you need to persuade a lot of people.

The reward for getting your speechcraft up high is being able to persuade people without having to boost your stats or use charm.

So, it's not really a broken system, it's just a little unorthodox.

I'd would prefer something where the NPC's intelligence is a bigger factor in persuasion success. Then lower level quests would just send you to persuade dumber people.

Daggerfall---

pick up and play dungeon crawler.. no real attatchment to my character... not as deep as the hardcoe elite try to make out... not once you'v done the same dungeon 4 times under a different name and quest, and not once you get a 554 gold reward despite each enemy you kill dropping up to 1000.

Morrowind---

Excellent sense of discovery and being in a hostile, unforgiving world.. does not hold your hand in any way shape or form, you are left to survive and create a life how you see fit. Dont expect any help.

Oblivion---

Best for roleplaying/stealth. The game world gives you the ingredients, you have to make the dinner. The quests are merely the surface when it comes to using them to propagate your own story.