I've been thinking long and hard about what I loved about certain Elder scrolls games, and I think i've finally realized it.

In morrowind, everything was exotic and unique, while keeping to the style of custom RPGs, which I liked. I always wanted to explore new crazy things in the world, as well as the interesting quests and NPCs.

Then oblivion came and shattered that. No unique monsters (besides daedra, I guess, but even then they're scarce, and the oblivion world was highly repetitive), No real unique places, nothing. Monsters turned into things you'd expect to see in your average forest, and it just seemed so boring and dull.

Perhaps the thing that made me love morrowind is, oddly enough, the fact that it didn't feel like the real world, or just every other 'Ye olden days' RPGs. It was unique, immersive, had quality and structure that just made you want to dive in and unravel the next thread of it's world. While as in Oblivion, I could walk into any cave and expect to see the same things I've seen in two other caves on the other side of the world. Level scaling ruined this even further.

I'm not going by gameplay aspects at all on this one, surprisingly. I'm just thinking about what made Morrowind great. Oblivion somewhat improved in the Shivering Isles, but even then it got repetitive, and I got used to everything. "Gasp, what!? How do you get used to a madworld!?" When the developers don't create enough immersion and uniqueness.

Fallout 3 improved on this, having a retro 50's idealism, having unique places and creatures, and more immersion. Characters even had unique personalities, where oblivion lacked.

Perhaps I'm just rambling on about things that have been mentioned 200 times before, but I've just been thinking about it. hardcoe bethesda fans, most commonly, liked Morrowind more than Oblivion, and Fallout 3 more than Oblivion. I don't know if it's just because of gameplay, or if it's the reasons I mentioned above, but this is just what I feel.

Morrowind>Fallout 3>Oblivion

That's what it's like for me. But, since Fallout 3 came out after Oblivion, I'm counting on it that TES V will be better than Oblivion. Fallout 3 was definitely a step in the right direction in many ways.

This.

*sigh*

While this is kinda a "Which game is better" thread, nobody really explains why. If they do, it's usually "graphics better", or "better combat".

I'm just wondering if anyone agrees with me, and if not, say why you like one game more than the other.

This seems to be another Oblivion vs morrowind Thread. Edit: It has been done to death since Oblivion was released. And people do give justification for it. But its been done over and over its so tired people dont bother going into it anymore.

but where does Fallout 3 come into TES. Are you trying to say "What makes a good game?" or "what makes TES great?"

For TES I would have to say that I love how deep it is. The world seems unique, but justified. Like in most fantasy RPG's magic is just magic, there is no real reason for it. The attention to detail in TES, even down to the finest thing, thats what makes the TES games and the world of the elder scrolls so great. For me anyway.

Mainly TES, but I used Fallout to make a point on uniqueness.

I'll tell you this much, if you don't know already: threads like this seldom last very long before getting out of hand, and summarily closed. It's sad, but true. The issue has been discussed so many times that everyone already knows each other's arguments - the only thing left to do is vent their negativity towards one another. I'll say that you won't find many threads on this forum espousing the virtues of Oblivion. Oblivion fans tend to be the more defensive sort. People like what they like.

That being said, I won't contribute to the closing of this thread. I'll tell you what I think makes an Elder Scrolls game "great" - lore, location, and balance. If this trifecta is achieved, a great game will typically result. I believe that all of the TES games to date have reached one form of this balance, or another.

Morrowind>Fallout 3>Oblivion>Daggerfall>Arena

Yeah, you guys are missing the point, or either ignoring my whole thread and reading it as a "Which game better?" thread.

Look at my post, and decide if that's why you like Morrowind over Oblivion (If you do. If you don't, say why.) If you like it for a different reason, say why.

"What makes Elder Scrolls a great game"

Hircine. :shifty:

Well I thought you were going to talk about the series as a whole rather than each individual game, based on what you titled the thread. Perhaps "What makes a great Elder Scrolls game" would be a better title?

Well it basically is about the series. The series itself is great for it's immersion. I just explained how I think Oblivion is pulling away from that.

Don't forget the other Daedric Princes!

Mudcrabs, obviously.

...

I will add, quite impartially, that this thread's title is misleading.

The Elder Scrolls games are great games because of the freedom you have in the game.
Morrowind was so fun, just levitating above a city casting spells and firing arrows at innocent people, while a load of daedra from your constant effect summoning items kill rampage through the streets.

I'll just say why I liked MW
It wasn't the graphics or the game mechanics, they're pretty run of the mill
It was because it was an open world game full of little details that I'm still discovering, it had some interesting background to it and wasn't just another quasi-feudal Europe RPG, it has a wonderful "stranger in a strange land" feeling, and its given me some of the best moments I've ever had from a CRPG like the creepiness of the 1st time I ever went into a 6th House base

My first Elder Scrolls game was Morrowind, and I play Oblivion more. I enjoy them both greatly, but they do both have flaws. I don't know why people think it's impossible to enjoy Oblivion more if you've enjoyed Morrowind first.

The way I look at it is Oblivion is great for a beginner to start playing the series and then move on to the older games.

I just went on a couple rants this morning because I was sans-coffee, but pay attention:

People who played Morrowind first generally prefer Morrowind. People who played Oblivion first, generally prefer Oblivion.

I think the graphics and clunky combat deter newer gamers, so they really can't get deep into it, like the people who played it when it came out. Hell, I know a few people who couldn't get into it when it was new because of the combat.

Morrowind is nothing on the surface. You have to delve into the world to realize how brilliant it is.

That's why the argument always comes down to graphics and combat. Because those are the main things that deter people from delving into Morrowind, and those are the only things that people who have put many hours into Morrowind will admit Oblivion did better.

And even combat is very debatable.

This is my "reason for the dichotomy' in a nutshell.

As for your comment that Oblivion pulls away from the spirit of TES games; I feel that it actually brings us back to the spirit of Arena.

However, I do agree that the uniqueness of Morrowind plays a huge part in its charm. But, as you can see from Bloodmoon, that deep RPG experience is possible even in a bleak, mundane setting.

What makes TES series great? I could list many reasons, but I see no mention of Arena or Daggerfall and only Morrowind is praised in the first post while Obliivon is being picked on(as usual) in this thread's first post, so this is more of a why is Morrowind great while Arena and Daggerfall don't exist and Oblivion is crap thread, no? Yet, another...

What makes the series great is your thread title, however, and here it is:

Arena-

• simple game I would play when I have a bit of spare time
  
• fun dungeons
  
• challenging

Daggerfall-

• complex
  
• political
  
• amazing character creation system
  
• fun role-playing elements lacking in the other games(banks, purchasing of ships, time limits, etc.)
  
• large amount of Daedric summonings available
  
• cloaks
  
• wide variety in musical themes
  
• VENGEANCE!

Morrowind-

• more original and obvious cultural aspects
  
• well-presented story involving the nation's specific history
  
• conflicts among joinable factions
  
• nicely hand-placed loot
  
• nice amount of distinct joinable factions
  
• an interesting vertical design
  
• occasionally more than one way to solve a quest
  
• able to kill anyone/go anywhere/do what I want with quest items
  
• large number of artifacts
  
• large weapon/armor variety
  
• more consequences for my various actions

Oblivion-

• more original side quests
  
• nice occasional historical finds(not typically loot-based finds as in Morrowind, but rather oddities that are just unique in appearance;
  Spoiler

  Abagarlas, Black Rock pirates and sunken ship, Goblin throne room, Argonian tribe, Dive Rock, hidden necromancer and various letter describing fleshing out specific/strange events, goblin tribes, suicidal troll with a note, drunk/dead goblins, skeleton of what I assume was either an adventurer or a hunter next to a rare book, waterfalls hiding entrances, a certain torture chamber hidden away in an unexpected place, a certain vampire who feeds on prisoners, my neighbor's house being mysteriously full of undead, the only copy in the entire Elder Scrolls series of a certain book found in a bandit camp, etc.)
  
  
• more cultural/clan-like/civilized aspects to beasts, such as goblin settlements and signs of sapience among trolls
  
• the Arena(I love the Arena, except for the Adoring Fan)
  
• smoother combat/stealth/magic systems
  
• more prominent faction storylines
  
• more balanced skill system and a truly functional learn by use system
  
• buyable houses
  
• horses
  
• AI(I once stumbled across a researcher actually researching in an Ayleid ruin, legion soldiers actually patrol roads)
  
• the return of several Daedric summoning possibilities
  
• stunning views
  
• very detailed(I see more carefully placed details in Oblivion that I sometimes just like to look at)
  
• higher level of interaction
  
• can finally attempt to break out of jail
  
• trees(don't care if it's "generic", I hate rocky ashlands)
  
• more distinct personalities(Oblivion has less dialogue, but it handles it pretty well, as most NPCs have unique dialogue, yet they do not in previous Elder Scrolls games)
  
• very atmospheric dungeons/gameworld in general(nice to see inns along the roads, for example)
  
• traps
  
• still some fun to be had at higher levels in combat/more dynamic gameworld(if I can grow stronger, others should be able to, as well)

TES series in general-

• lore(with the exception of Arena)
  
• freedom-based/sandbox gameplay/gameworld
  
• learn by use(with the exception of Arena)
  
• more about living a second life than just playing games and puttting them up on the shelves soon after purchasing them
  
• immersion
  
• customization

This is what I see in the series and the various games of the series. I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but please, don't try to disprove my opinion.

You obviously have not played the elders of the elder scrolls games. If you had played them you would know that not everywhere looks like Vvardelvall and Cyrodill looks quite a lot like what it should according to lore. I played Morrowind first and I admit that it is a better game. However I do like Oblivion better. I just feel better playing Oblivion. Also Morrowind always has errors and crashes my computer, and NO I do not have Vista or an old computer.




You got that just about right there seti. You think I mock you? Not at all.

>Morrowind
>Original culture

What

The only way to fix this is for Bethesda to announce TES:5 right now. That'll take our minds away from the previous ones for a while.

I played a bit of Daggerfall, but not arena. Even then, I didn't have enough knowledge of Daggerfall to compare it really.

And Mankar, even though Cyrodil's lore calls for it to be pretty and green, that doesn't mean there isn't room for uniqueness.

Everything we knew about the Imperials and Cyrodiil leading up to Oblivion suggested exactly the kind of place that we got. Despite their Roman armor, they lived in generic medieval-British castles and villages (see Pelagiad, Ebonheart) and operated like a mix of ancient Rome and the British Empire (even down to a less-than-subtle nod to the East India Company). Vvardenfell had geographic isolation and a completely unique environment to on its side, which resulted in some very strange looking creatures. But Cyrodiil is the vanilla home of the vanilla human race, and I think it presented itself beautifully. Though, I do miss my Templar armor... :sadvaultboy:

And, before the subject of Cyrodiil-as-rainforest gets brought up (as it always seems to), I really only see three ways it could have been done realistically in terms of gameplay. They either could have crafted the world pretty much as they did, but change the textures and trees to look more like a jungle (meaning it still wouldn't have felt like a real rainforest as the trees would be fairly sparse and the undergrowth would be virtually nonexistant, but the advantage of this is that it still allows for exploration), they could have made a Crysis-style thick forest with impenetrable undergrowth, meaning that it looks realistic but "exploration" is limited to a handful of pre-drawn paths that lead to treasures, dungeons, etc. Or, they could have gone with option number two, but wasted a bunch of disc space with destructible environments so you can give yourself carpel tunnel hacking through the brush, but to compensate for this, they strip out even more depth from the world (weapon/armor types, spells, just one "armor" skill, etc.). Of these, only the first really sounds decent, and then it's just a matter of taste whether you would rather spend 100+ hours in the Bitter Coast or Ascadian Isles :shrug:

Well to be fair, Cyrodiil wasn't really intended to be a tropical rain forest, just a rain forest in general. Meaning some more undergrowth then presented in Oblivion but not Amazon forest like.

Saint Juib you've read the PGE right? :read: