I always thought of House as being closer to the wasteland equivalent of enlightened despot, but you make a lot of good points about his representing capitalism. House is no doubt selfish, and while many will argue the whole, "well in the big picture he's doing good" idea, I just don't see it happening that way. I'm sure that's what the top 1% and the American government (Enclave) were thinking before the Great War, and look where that led them.

Maybe I'm just an idealist, but I don't see a selfish leader creating what is essentially a self-centered power structure around him (House and his New Vegas empire) as being the foundation for a good, long lasting nation. House is a genius sure, but he is a genius that is completely disconnected from the lives of the people he leeches off of and lords over, much like, as you said, the "select few" leech off of and lord over lower classes in a capitalist society.

But then again, House is realistic in a lot of ways, and maybe it's just in the nature of people to be selfish, so he could be the best choice after all. I'm still saying Indy is best ending, but I don't know where I stand with House...


I never thought of that, but yeah, that does describe the big difference between Indy and House.

I think one of the attractive points of House is really when it gets to the scale of war, everyone is just a statistic ANYWAYS. Sure, the NCR may bother to apologize for killing innocent person/group number 7 whereas House won't, but both would end up killing them. That's what makes House attractive at first glance. Still, that doesn't change how they are as a society. If I commit a crime in the NCR or Indy Vegas, what happens? NCR, I get a trial, Indy, the community decides what happens: effectively a ghetto trial. House? He makes a call. He simply has the footage he may or may not have, claims made by the casino bosses (and how much would you like to bet House would generally just listen to any claims made by one of his employees rather than the potential thief?) and then he's the judge. The thing is that while yes, at the time of war they're ALL guilty of viewing people as statistics, this pattern STOPS once the war ends. The Legion becomes a very tight-knit "team" as a society and it'd be rare to even see one of them commiting a crime (and who knows? Maybe the Legion does have a judicial system of sorts? I don't see why Caesar would be against this for cases that are unclear. Even if it didn't have one, I think the society is loyal enough that any claims made by people would be honest and reliable, which may not be the case with other societies) whereas the NCR stops viewing people as numbers altogether and only seeing the big picture, so everyone gets a fair trial, no matter how small. As for Indy Vegas, again, it's up to the communities themselves, so anything's possible. But with House? With House they remain statistics.

Vault Dweller: Either House or Independent. The Vault Dweller, from what I gather, may have had a case of Chronic Hero Syndrome, in that he tries to do the right thing, to varying degrees of success. He's also willing to shoot the dog if he must, so wiping out the Brotherhood of Steel could be seen as a necessary evil from his point of view, though he will carry regrets for doing so. Living under House's authority, from his mind, wouldn't be any different from living under the Overseer in a vault, and could help people in the wasteland, though his exile from Vault 13 may have dampened his views of such authority figures. I guess it all rests on whether or not he would trust House to be a good leader.

Chosen One: Hmm, probably either NCR or independent. He seems a bit naive, and can of course help the NCR expand even further north in FO2. Not that you can blame him, because frankly, compared to the other major players in Vault City and New Reno, they're the best faction out there. On the other hand, would he want his tribe to be part of them? I got the impression Arroyo became part of the NCR, and if that's true, how willing an absorption was it? I could see him taking the independent route, not necessarily to take power for himself, but so that everyone else could develop on their own. Regardless, he might be the most staunchly opposed to the Legion, being an even greater slaver power than what his people normally had to deal with.

Lone Wanderer: NCR. Like the Chosen One, he's a kid without a whole lot of real-world experience, let alone wasteland experience. He's most likely a do-gooder and sees the NCR as the best guys most capable of reviving the wasteland to pre-war American values. It's likely he would find the Legion completely abhorrent, and may not take too well to House's attitude, or his inability to compromise with the Brotherhood of Steel. He could also go independent, if he thinks he can do a better job than everyone else at making the Mojave safe, secure, and healthy, but he may not do a very good job of it.

Courier: Independent or House. NV really really shows why neither NCR or the Legion are ideal, and heavily leans on forming a new nation without the influence of either, and the devs definitely like this ending. But it's not as if being independent is all that mutually exclusive from House, or that things can't go completely independent in the future. I always got the impression that the Courier is a bit of an opportunist who's just as likely use House for his own ends; a completely independent Vegas doesn't have to come immediately after Hoover Dam, after all.

LW would be 23 by the time of New Vegas. I don't think he'd qualify as a kid anymore.

That would change within five minutes of meeting them, What he might do however is tell Veronica to go east and sign up with Elder Lyons.

And the Chosen One would be in his sixties and the Vault Dweller would be in the second century of his life. I believe this is supposed to be at the age they were when their games took place.

I doubt it, the Lone Wanderer doesn't seem to be the one to investigate at all and would probably think their hostility was just stress. He would side with them until he realizes they're a joke in the Mojave.

http://images.wikia.com/fallout/images/0/09/Mysterious_Stranger_Outfit.png

But mentally, he's like a freaking child. He's a follower, not a leader. The Courier and the Vault Dweller give you impressions of being leaders; they make their decisions on their own fairly often. The Chosen One is a follower, but not neccesarily a mindless one. He's young and naive so he just tends to trust people and do as he's told. The Lone Wanderer? He spends the entire time following orders. I think the ONLY decision the Lone Wanderer willingly ends up making on his own is double-crossing Crowley for the Tb-51 power armor; everything else, someone says "hey do this for me" and the Lone Wanderer says "ok." In that sense he doesn't seem like a deep philosophical thinker (smart, seeing as he defused an atom bomb and did all sorts of technological feats, but not a deep thinker) but more someone who has a very general idea of what's good and what's bad and he follows that to no end. Whereas I can picture the Courier playing along with the Legion just to gain their trust or the Chosen One PRETENDING to be one of them, the Lone Wanderer seems like the type that would meet Vulpes and just immediately start unloading lead.

I found it refreshing that the Courier's motive for chasing Benny is his own; it's revenge (I consider this canon, seeing as the Courier's brain SAYS it was revenge), not something like the Lone Wanderer missing his daddy. Sure missing your daddy is technically your own motive, but I always got the sense he missed his dad cause he's so pathetic that he doesn't know how to function without him, let alone know what he should do. I also found it refreshing that the Courier entering the Divide was his own desire as well. You enter the Divide not because you're kidnapped or tricked OR because somebody told you to (I believe Ulysses message was simply "Courier 6, the Divide" or something along those lines?); no, you enter it because the Courier wants to. I found it SOOOOOO refreshing that the devs said "screw that cliché kidnapping bullcrap" and just said "nah he enters because he wants to; he seeks answers."

On pretty much every DLC, the characters are constantly calling the Courier curious, but from my point of view that doesn't work.

I just bought the DLC, I'm obviously going to want to play it, I'm not curious to find out what happens in every DLC (I was for Lonesome Road, that was some hot gossip), It was just an excuse for me to start playing the game again. Maybe I'm playing the game wrong, but when people called me curious, I took it as an insult...

Well how does the Courier end up in the Sierra Madre? He checks a mysterious radio signal. The Big MT? Checks a mysterious satellite. Lonesome Road? His own free will and need for answers.

But he is only concerned for New Vegas. We need someone in charge that cares about more than one city. Caesar knows that he needs to change once they have conquered. He even said that he wanted to make a synthesis out of the ncr and the legion's ideals. He knows what he is doing and he can pass on his knowledge to the successor(hopefully not Lanius). With the bombs we have gone back to square one, even less so with the plant life being mostly extinct. We need to act like it. When the land is riddled with savages we don't negotiate we come, we see, and we conquer. We can have democracy because we have a mostly stable civilization the wastelands are anything but.

Well, if he's still alive. We have no idea if canon-wise the LW survived Project Purity. Broken Steel was only created because there were so many people who were pissed off at the fact that they couldn't continue the game (it could have happened but without the LW).

Back on Topic:

Vault Dweller: He would choose none of the factions. The village that he founded were made up of mostly Vault 13 Dwellers who rejected their technologically-raised teachings for a tribal life-style. They use the knowledge necessary to survive but that's about it. Don't forget that it was "civilization" that kicked him out of his home.

Chosen One: The same as his grandfather. Perhaps he might go for an independent New Vegas but he would never fully support the NCR in my opinion. Dialogues in FONV suggests that the NCR has been rounding up Tribals so that they can be "civilized".

Lone Wanderer: LOL NCR.

Courier: Independent.

I'm currently doing a Lone Wanderer playthrough that I'm enjoying (I'm really bad about making my own characters. I always just feel stupid thinking "now what would he do in THIS situation" when I completely made the character up, so it's technically my call. Character OUTLINES based on existing stories and characters? That I can do.) as it's giving me an excuse to play the game a new way (Energy weapons and high intelligence supporting the NCR), but at times I have trouble deciding what decision to make.

For example, when he meets Ulysses. On one hand the Lone Wanderer was presented to us like some goody-two-shoes perfect mofo who would spare the life of anyone he could, on the other hand he was the most simple-minded [censored] and I just can't picture the Lone Wanderer understanding Ulysses or his own impact on the Mojave at all. The first says he should spare Ulysses and not launch the bombs, the second says he'd be like "HERP DERP U IZ BAD GUYS!" and kill Ulysses, followed by nuking the Legion.

Between a conversation with TLW and Ulysses, I could imagine there will be a huge manner of sarcastic comments

All I see is

"The NCR. They're cancer. Unable to leave it be, digging up remnants of the past that were better off left buried."
"BUT BOMBS R BAD!111!! LEGION BAD11!!!"

And then Ulysses pulls out his AMR, slowly aiming for the skull while sighing to himself and thinking "I can't believe this is my role model...."

Loved the debate there. Good stuff, lads.
My 10c - there is no answer for the Vault Dweller or Chosen One. Well, I guess there are, because I know that there are canon endings. But to me the character in those endings don’t represent MY Vault Dweller or Chosen One.
FO1/2 were RPGs that left the choices and personalities to each player, and I’d like to think that everyone’s Vault Dweller or Chosen One were a little bit different. There is little point saying that the Vault Dweller would support NCR because he supported Tandi, because your Vault Dweller might have left her to rot.

There is only one protagonist from a core Fallout game who isn’t unique and whom will never be, at some level a reflection of the player. Who would the Lone Wanderer support? He’d be railroaded to supporting the most goody-good factions – The Followers.

Longknife I'm using this quote in my signature


I'll give you credit and all, but that quote made my laugh harder than you can imagine.

I agree, and I actually know some people like that. I wouldn't say it is bad, but it isn't good for them either. Whoever is there friend though will surely have a loyal friend though. So I guess it would depend on whoever appealed to the Lone Wanderer first to depend on what he chose. The Legion's army seems to immediately insult those who aren't legion so the Lone Wanderer might get angry and kill them, cause he doesn't like them, and if he meets them he might see their slaves then kill them. Then it would take some willpower on his part. He has to see Mr. House before considering the other options, ecept Yes-man I think, but he could be completely avoided all together (I did this on my first playthrough). Then he would either carry out Mr. Houses will or be inspired by the NCR's similar views of protecting the people as Lyons. Also the NCR is the most beneficial for the BoS out west as far as we know. They could always break their treaty later, but we never know.

As for the others I see both the Vault Dweller and Chosen One due to their ties with NCR. And the Courier remains uncertain.

Anyway on the topic it's easy to see that the Courier was indepedent. Firstly the devs are said they nuked the NCR and Legion with Lonesome Road so that's pretty much decided that those two aren't it. Second indepedent has already been their stated as their favorite. Third if you look a few hundred questions back on J. E sawyers formspring he notes that after courier takes power he creates a democracy out of the anarchy. I think it's easy to see what happens really canon wise. It's sad because I wanted the NCR to be canon, but I can see they've reached their tipping point going east anyway (still Baja of course).

Obsidian =/= Bethesda. It is Bethesda's final decision if they ever make a canon. Though I wouldn't doubt they would change what Obsidian said unless they really wanted it to be something else. So Independant seems to have a good chance, but it isn't guranteed.

Well it's friggin true. Like I mean, name one instance in FO3 where the Lone Wanderer is in a "oh, I guess I was wrong about this guy and I should apologize" position. His initial impression is generally what's followed right to the end as he runs around screaming "FOR UHMERICA!!" The Vault Dweller or the Courier by comparison meet groups that seem nice at first, but turn out to be [censored]s or vice versa.


They didn't state they nuked both, but rather Chris Avellone said he agrees with Ulysses that it's time to start over clear out groups that are stuck in the past. Whether that was their intention as canon or whatever isn't clear. I think it'd be safe to say it was canon if that WERE Ulysses intention, but it's not exactly. Ulysses only wants to bomb the Long 15; he sympathizes with the Legion enough to give them a second chance. Considering Avellone WROTE Ulysses, I think the conflict between his own opinion and Ulysses' makes it kind of inconclusive. Aside from that, I THINK I remember Sawyer somehow say he didn't agree with bombing anyone, and yeah, Sawyer has also addressed the issue of canon and said there won't be one until it becomes a neccesity.


Still, even if Bethesda says "NCR," I think this is more of a discussion about what the developer's intentions were for canon characters. I think New Vegas quite clearly implies an Independent Courier, so whether or not Bethesda says otherwise, I think most will view Independent as canon in it's own way.