What NOT to do with Fallout and why

Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:28 am

Change is always acceptable and expected with any good game series. It is the driving force that compels fans to continue buying games, and remaining loyal. Over the past decade, we have seen the simple, turn-based rpg of Fallout transform into something far from the original with the release of Fallout 3. However, like any good cannon series, change must not affect pre-established lore. With this in mind, a list of sorts can be made as what not to do with future Fallout games.

1. A Game Outside the US.
Spoiler
One of the most important concepts of Fallout lore that is constantly challenged by some fans is the unknown fate of the rest of the world. This may not seem quite like lore, however, it plays a large part in the series. Ever since the first Fallout, the nuclear war that broke out was described where "entire continents sank." Fallout 3 was the first game in the series which mentions the existence of communities outside the actual states, but even then, those communities were in a commonwealth (most likely referring to the annexed Canada), Commonwealths being owned by the US. In Fallout: New Vegas, the life story of Raul (A ghoul companion trapped in Black Mountain) reveals that there were survivors in Mexico as well. It must be noted, however, that he does not specify whether Mexico was one of the 13 commonwealths of the US (If you were wondering why the old world flag had 13 stars on it, that's why). Whether or not Mexico was a commonwealth when the bombs fell is debatable, and as such, it may very well be proof that life exists in other countries. Putting the setting of a Fallout game in a commonwealth, such as Canada, would not prove too destructive to lore or to gameplay. After all, is it possible that the super-mutants(*erm, Meta Humans [sorry Fawkes]) of DC or some other unknown vault could have spread to Canada? Absolutely, as seen in Fallout: New Vegas where many Mutants who once served the Master in California now live in Nevada. In the years between the annexation of Canada and the fall of the bombs, is it possible that Vault-Tec could have quickly constructed a few new vaults in the region? Once again, this is possible as Vaults typically had a short build time despite their enormous size. Now let's look at another country entirely. First, it must be noted that Vault-Tec is an American company created to use the fear of American citizens to gain profit as well as to help the government perform social, psychological, and physical tests on its citizens. It is thanks to Vault-Tec that the Brotherhood of Steel exists, as well as Super-Mutants, possibly the Enclave, groups such as the Khans/New Khans/Great Khans, etc, etc. It becomes obvious that Fallout lore was almost entirely created with the help of Vault-Tec. Going now to China, England, or wherever, there is no Vault-Tec. Thus, no Brotherhood of Steel (I'm not necessarily complaining about that...), no Super-Mutants, no Enclave (regardless of whether or not they came from vaults, there would not be an enclave elsewhere.), etc. The lore of the game would be lost and a defining factor that makes Fallout unique would be gone. To introduce things similar would also ruin the game and appear unoriginal for the location. After all, different countries have different ideals and ways to solve problems. But even if they could figure out an original method for going about this, it would no longer be a Fallout game, but something else. Cannon Series depend on each game to build up on existing lore.


2. Ability to chose your race.
Spoiler
Let's face it, the system works great in the newest member to TES, but it simply won't work in the world of Fallout. One race might miss out on content that the other race gets full access too, making gameplay favor a certain race, regardless of how the game devs decide to balance it. For example, ghouls aren't harmed by radiation, but are healed instead. That means that irradiated dungeons that are meant to be a challenge prove to be quite easy and simple. Areas with excessive amounts of radiation where no human could survive open their doors to all ghouls, complete with any special loot hidden there as well. Suddenly making your trip to Vault 87 become much less interesting and easier, as you no longer have to worry about convincing a bunch of little kids to let a mungo in, let alone help some children escape Paradise Falls, a heavily armored slaver town. If you also recall, Super-Mutants don't normally attack Ghouls. Even Tabitha didn't have Raul killed, and she advocated the death of any human that makes their presence in Black Mountain. As for making a Super-Mutant, they too are immune to radiation. They are also immune to poison. Being a Super-Mutant would affect your special stats too, as they have naturally higher strength and endurance, and depending on location or generation, low intelligence. East coast Super-Mutants from Vault 87 are less intelligent than their west coast Mariposa counterparts. Furthermore, Second Gen mutants are much less intelligent than their First Gen counterparts. Even many First Gens aren't entirely intelligent. Being that Mutants tend to stick together, being a Super-Mutant means that you don't have to worry about one of the most iconic enemies of Fallout: the Super-Mutant (surprise surprise...).


3. Introduce an emotionless story.
Spoiler
To be honest, I might not mean this in the expected, traditional way. I just can't quite think of a way to describe it in one simple sentence. Let me start out by saying, I prefer Fallout 3 over Fallout: New Vegas any day. In my opinion, Fallout: New Vegas doesn't feel right and the player seems entirely unattached to the story of the game. It is as if the game and the NPCs simply tell you what to do and you have no reason or incentive to do so. Half the main story is to chase after the guy that shot you. But why should you? The game never bothers attaching any emotion to it at all but makes the whole thing casual. After all, Benny himself admitted that it was nothing personal. The other half of the main story you help a faction take control of the Mojave, a concept too many people quickly drool over before thinking to ask the important questions. What does will this faction do for the future of New Vegas? Even if they do bother to ask that question, there is still no emotional attachment to any particular group, nor is there true reason to do the faction quests. The NCR is corrupt and spread thin. The Legion is crime-free, but also lacks any freedom. Mr. House is simply out for his own benefits, and going independent is not only the easy way out, but the least satisfying as New Vegas changes little from the endeavor. All the while, in each faction, there is some figure higher than you barking orders at you. The game simply tells you what to do. In Fallout 3, there is reason to do the main quest. There is emotional attachment, after all, your father just unexpectedly ditched you and now the vault's overseer has gone mad and wishes to kill you as you are technically an outsider and he doesn't trust you. When you finally find your father, you learn that he left to better help the entire Capital Wasteland and asks that you help him. Your father's undeserving death at the hands of the Enclave gives reason and purpose to complete Project Purity and destroy the Enclave. There is reason, there is emotion, there is attachment. Despite the fact that the story can be considered fairly linear, it still succeeds in drawing the player into the action. I've spent over 400 hours on one character in Fallout 3, as opposed to my barely 100 hour level 50 in New Vegas. I will yield that the New Vegas side quests were a bit better than Fallout 3, but they simply weren't enough to keep me attached to the game. Attachment is essential for a good game to become a great game.

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Emma Parkinson
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:23 pm

Over the past decade, we have seen the simple, turn-based rpg of Fallout transform into something far from the original with the release of Fallout 3. However, like any good cannon series, change must not affect pre-established lore. With this in mind, a list of sorts can be made as what not to do with future Fallout games.
Something far, far... Simply too far from the original for my preference. :sadvaultboy:

I would not want to see the Enclave , BOS, or Supermutants be major factions in another one.

I would also not want to see the populace still living in squalor 250+ years later (not with endless amounts of small energy cells and plentiful robotic labor available).

I would not want a new Fallout to be as far a stretch from FO3 as FO3 was from FO2.
Spoiler
Because that makes it twice as far from Fallout 2.


I would also not want to see the trend for 'take it or leave it' dialog (that you can walk away from while they are talking) become part of the new design of the Fallout series. The series always was such that you had to respect the speaker (even if you planned to attack them afterwards). I never felt that aspect in FO3, and it lost potential due to that IMO.
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Taylrea Teodor
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:10 pm

2. That's the point though, to make each race have bonuses and weaknesses. Ghouls might be healed by radiation but they will have -10% running speed, max STR can only be 6, they get less health per level and cannot wear heavy armors or heavy weapons. I fully support the idea of racial selection because it would increase replayability. So what if I'm locked out of content with one character? Simply means I have stuff to do with the next one instead. As for Super Mutants? No. I don't see how they'd work, too dumb, too powerful in combat and too disconnected with most of the world.
Trogs on the other hand would be a great new addition to play as.

And hell, who says companions can't get irradiated?
So if you're a ghoul then yeah radiation will be pretty much "whatever" but your companions, they can still die from it.
And hell, let's say that ghouls contract radiation and leaks it?
So if you get +600 radiation then you might irradiate Bum Town when you visit it.

There are ways to work around this and make ghouls work.

[edit]

Oh yeah and lore:

* No west coast items on the east coast and no east coast items on the west coast.

* Caps is not the unviersal currency.

* Caps, Jet and anything else produced post-apocalypse should not be able to be found in Vaults. (Yes I realize that people might have gone to vaults to scavenge around, but why would a scavenger leave 6 bottle caps in a drawer if he's there to scavenge stuff to use or sell?)

* No convenient stores with pre-war food still on the shelves.

* For that matter, no more pre-war food either unless there is an explanation for it.

* No more burn-victim ghouls please. They're suppose to be rotting walking corpses, not just humans with bad skin.

* Bring back the Wattz series already, what? With the Enclave blown up in Fallout 2 every single shred of Wattz completely vanished?
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^_^
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:43 pm

So what if I'm locked out of content with one character? Simply means I have stuff to do with the next one instead.
Same here... but that wouldn't happen; At 'best' you would get a racially affected version of the same content for each (and every :sadvaultboy: ) race you might choose to play.

* No convenient stores with pre-war food still on the shelves.
No First Aid kits with medical supplies still in them two centuries later.
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Jack Bryan
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:20 pm

So this is just a another Fallout 3 vs New Vegas?

As for the first part. We know what happened to the rest of the world. Its only those that don't know anything about Fallout 1 or Fallout 2 that question what happened to the rest of the world. Even though Fallout 3 also tells us what happened.

Fallout One Intro

War. War never changes. The Romans waged war to gather slaves and wealth. Spain built an empire from it lust for gold and territory. Hitler shaped a battered Germany into and economic superpower, but war never changes. In the 21st century war was still waged for the resources that could be acquired; only this time the spoils of war were also its weapons, petroleum and uranium. For these resources China would invade Alaska. The US would annex Canada and the European Commonwealth would dissolve into quarrelling bickering nation states bent on controlling the last remaining resources on Earth. In 2077 the storm of World War had come again. In two brief hours most of the planet was reduced to cinders and from the ashes of nuclear devastation a new civilization would struggle to arise.

Fallout Two Intro

War. War never changes. The end of the world occurred pretty much as we had predicted; too many humans and not enough space or resources to go around. The details are trivial and pointless, the reasons as always, purely human ones. The Earth was nearly wiped clean of life. A great cleansing, an atomic spark struck by human hands quickly raged out of control. Spears of Nuclear fire rained down from the sky. Continents were swallowed in flames and fell beneath the boiling oceans. Humanity was almost extinguished, their spirits becoming part of the background radiation that blanketed the Earth. A quiet darkness fell across the planet lasting many years. Few survived the devastation.

Fallout 3 Intro

War. War never changes, since the dawn of human kind when our ancestors first discovered the killing power of rock and bone, blood has been spilled in the name of everything from God to justice to simple psychotic rage. In the year 2077 after millennia of armed conflict the destructive nature of man could sustain itself no longer. The world was plunged into an abyss of nuclear fire and radiation but it was not as sum had predicted “the end of the world.” Instead the apocalypse was simply the prologue of another bloody chapter of human history. For man had succeeded in destroying the world but war, war never changes.

As for Fallout 3. It did not fit with the rest of the Fallout games in setting. It takes place 200 years after the nuclear war, yet zero progress has been made. Hell there are no living trees or plants but for oasis. Yet all the other Fallouts have trees and plants, people farming plants and animals and have made alot of progress.

I agree with Gizmo and gabriel77dan.
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Veronica Flores
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:42 pm

So this is just a another Fallout 3 vs New Vegas?


Not exactly what I want for this thread. If i wanted that, I could have just scrolled down the list of threads a bit. While I admit that I prefer Fallout 3 to New Vegas, I prefer the old Fallouts to the new ones. However, we cannot undo the damages that Bethesda has already done, as their games were accepted by the gaming community and not shunned like Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel. That was the only game made to be a cannon that is ignored by fans and devs alike. At the same time, it must be noted that Bethesda did make some good changes to the series and added interesting concepts to the lore (as well as controversial ones *cough* bottlecap currency in the east coast *cough*)

as far as the racial traits goes, it seems unbalanced and as i stated, the game would naturally favor one particular race. Despite any weaknesses the devs give each race, what tends to happen with games in which there are multiple races is that one race is clearly the best, and all the others inadequate. Almost like how every time a new expansion comes out for WoW, the game favors the new race/class they implement (really annoying). Or even in other games like Starcraft (sorry for all the Blizzard references, but that company took most of the 90s away from me...), the game clearly favors the protoss, with an extra health bar and an overpowered defensive unit, the photon cannon. build enough of them and nothing can get through. Easy enough considering how cheap they are.

And while the intros to the games do say that the rest of the world was essentially burnt to a crisp, few fans understand that, which is a major point i was trying to make. The mystery is still there however, my examples of Raul and the Commonwealth show that. But once again, that gets into the concept of what we should accept as a part of the cannon, and I prefer to accept that the continental US was the only survivor based off of the beginnings of Fallout 1 and 2.
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Max Van Morrison
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:08 pm

I agree we can't undo the changes Bethesda made to the series. I am not saying it should. I do how ever want future Fallouts to move more towards the originals in many ways. New Vegas was a good step but it has some of the flaws as Fallout 3. Such as how unbalanced our charaters become. How they become gods and great at everything so easily. While the older Fallouts, it take alot of planing to go into a character.

Fallout 3 does have characters from the UK in it. I am pissed because nowhere in the game does it say Tenpenny came from the UK.. The devs of Fallout 3 in an interview told us he came from there.. We missed out on a great story. Still canon wise the rest of the world was destoyed just as bad as the United States or worse. If new fans don't know that, they can just do some research.

As for different races.. I thik Ghouls should be alot weaker and not able to wear power armour.
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naana
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:10 pm

Fallout 3 does have characters from the UK in it. I am pissed because nowhere in the game does it say Tenpenny came from the UK.. The devs of Fallout 3 in an interview told us he came from there.. We missed out on a great story.


What the devs say and what the game says are two totally different things. If it isn't in the game, it isn't part of the lore. By saying he came from the UK, perhaps they meant that they got the concept of him by introducing a British style for him, or perhaps they were joking. (Fallout Devs are notorious at such trickery, from the Super Duper Mutants to the second person view for Fallout 4...) Just because the devs say it does not make it law. If it is not in the game, its not in the game. As such, I ignore such notions from the devs.

moving back to the race issue, which I feel could be an interesting debate thread on its own, you keep naming potential weaknesses for ghouls, and I suppose I am to blame as my original point seems to stress that ghouls would be the overpowered race. However, adding on to a list of potential weaknesses for any particular race only strengthens the point I was trying to make that one race would inevitably be preferable by the interface of the game. For example, in Skyrim or any TES game for that matter, if you wish to be a stealth based character, chances are you are going to be some form of mer, rather than man. While you can be a successful sneak as a man, the interface favors mer for such actions (especially vampiric mer). While I am fine with things such as that, which allows for great specialization, I do hope it is at least somewhat effective in proving my point that multiracial games naturally end up preferring certain races based solely on the environment of the game.
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Kayleigh Williams
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:43 pm

If it isn't in the game, it isn't part of the lore.

Bible is semi-canon.
New Vegas guide is canon.
Chance's Amazing Adventures is canon.
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Laurenn Doylee
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:20 pm

Ok, i yield. Merchandise such as the All Roads book and things of that sort are canon. What some devs tell you but appears nowhere else is not.
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Danny Warner
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:23 am

Ok, i yield. Merchandise such as the All Roads book and things of that sort are canon. What some devs tell you but appears nowhere else is not.


It is when that dev was the head dev of the game. If the person worked on the game and is speaking on the behalf of the devs on a matter of canon such as someone asking if Tenpenny is from the UK or not, is canon.

It really svcks that we did not get to learn it in the game or in the game guide. That we didn't get a great story about his crossing the ocean, but the devs said he's from the UK.. so he's from the UK.
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Kayla Keizer
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:16 pm

Okay, we all know we didn't get to know enough about the Legion's homeland, so, how about the concept art for Legion?
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=4460
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=4456
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=4455
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=4454

Are these canon?
Cause we barely know anything about the Legion, and since these aren't at Fort, Nelson or Cottonwood Cove, could they be considered canon? Or at the very least semi-canon? (Canon until proven otherwise)
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Tha King o Geekz
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:36 am

I wouldn't count concept art. Also is that concept art for New Vegas or Van Buren? Looks like Van Buren.
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Patrick Gordon
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:08 pm

Oh op, you had such good intentions with this thread, too bad its just going to turn into a outlet for all the Fallout 3 haters to [censored] and moan.
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Andrea Pratt
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:31 am

I wouldn't count concept art. Also is that concept art for New Vegas or Van Buren? Looks like Van Buren.

It's for New Vegas, not Van Buren.
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Sarah Kim
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:41 pm

It's for New Vegas, not Van Buren.


Interesting. Still I wouldn't count it.
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Elle H
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:29 am

What NOT to do with Fallout


- No choice of race (unless the choice is limited to a couple of 'em and each offers radically different gameplayexperience)
- No Sandbox, but nodes on a worldmap which do offer much better possibilities for plausible variety and still offer open world exploration
- No overly large leaps in timeline (unless it shows in the game, but even then there's a high danger that there is no plausible way to represent postapocalypse anymore)
- No onesided and rather inane main plot :smug:
- No redesigning what has been set in the lore (i.e. not Enclave rising again as they've been killed twice already, no BoS being retconned again, etc)
- No weak skill/stat systems that do nothing in practice
- No overly abundant freedom with no boundaries whatsoever which only leads to everything feeling pointlesss and unrewarding
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Ricky Meehan
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:56 pm

- No choice of race (unless the choice is limited to a couple of 'em and each offers radically different gameplayexperience)

While I can't say I'd care, I still think it'd be interesting seeing a fully fleshed out Ghoul playthrough (You have to admit it would provided it actually does more than alters 1 dialogue line)
- No Sandbox, but nodes on a worldmap which do offer much better possibilities for plausible variety and still offer open world exploration

Ehhhhh, I rathe Sandbox stays. While I understand your wants for node based, I think the time of node based games is declined because it doesnt appeal to the gamer community at large. Fallout 3 was the first Fallout introduced to the masses without intents as a niche game and sold well, going back to node at this point would damage the games standing to the community, which might cause investors to second guess investing future projects related to Fallout.

- No overly large leaps in timeline (unless it shows in the game, but even then there's a high danger that there is no plausible way to represent postapocalypse anymore)

I can get along with this, I like New Vegas only making a barely nudge in time distancing.

- No onesided and rather inane main plot :smug:

So every plot from Fallout to Fallout 3? :spotted owl:

- No redesigning what has been set in the lore (i.e. not Enclave rising again as they've been killed twice already, no BoS being retconned again, etc)

BoS was never retconned, Lyons just went rogue by western BoS chapter's views. It's happened in the past where large groups with splinter chapters fall off into different ideals. I do agree with the 'No more Enclave boogeyman' bunko though.

- No weak skill/stat systems that do nothing in practice

Agreed

- No overly abundant freedom with no boundaries whatsoever which only leads to everything feeling pointlesss and unrewarding

I blame developers due to laziness and cutting corners, not the design itself. Also, as New Vegas shows, publisher pressure doesnt help. That said, I already said this earlier, but I LIKE the ability to explore without 'LOLNEXTNODEPLZ' every few hundred feet, that kind of crap is way to 90's, back when the technology was limited in capability, in my mind there's no excuse to make severly limited places anymore when any dev team that clocks its creativity over time can give every building a background. But the thing is, not EVERYTHING needs a backstory, you find a 200+ year old Pre-War gas station in the middle of nowhere, and it's empty and deserted because it offers no benefits for Wasters, ergo its just an empty small loot shack or something, maybe a matress a drifter drug with them is left behind.
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Kelvin
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:16 pm

While I can't say I'd care, I still think it'd be interesting seeing a fully fleshed out Ghoul playthrough (You have to admit it would provided it actually does more than alters 1 dialogue line)


If it is done right, sure. But this one goes down to the "excessive freedom" department which Beth uses, and which rules out any "real" differences or consequences. That's why they cut out classes from Skyrim, to not "confuse" people with "too hard" choices in the beginning of the game. I say no because I don't think a couple of lines in dialog and a couple of nigh meaningless statistical (higher rad resistance, slightly different base skills) changes won't cut it, and only leads to a mere cosmetic difference which doesn't serve a purpose for anyone but "rolepretenders" -- Hey cool, Imma ghoul!

Ehhhhh, I rathe Sandbox stays. While I understand your wants for node based, I think the time of node based games is declined because it doesnt appeal to the gamer community at large. Fallout 3 was the first Fallout introduced to the masses without intents as a niche game and sold well, going back to node at this point would damage the games standing to the community, which might cause investors to second guess investing future projects related to Fallout.


DA:O appealed to great many people despite its nodes being really, really small and cramped, and I'm not asking for such nodes. Not even nodes like in the originals containing only one settlement. I don't see how a well done nodebased system would hurt the games "standing" if it, along with other stuff, offered what the explorerpeople ask: Exploring.

I can get along with this, I like New Vegas only making a barely nudge in time distancing.


:foodndrink:

So every plot from Fallout to Fallout 3? :spotted owl:


Just 3. :thumbsup:

BoS was never retconned, Lyons just went rogue by western BoS chapter's views. It's happened in the past where large groups with splinter chapters fall off into different ideals. I do agree with the 'No more Enclave boogeyman' bunko though.


I wasn't clear in my meaning. I meant taking already established things and forcing them into a mold they do not fit. My guess is they only picked BoS as the good guys because their faction name has some chivalry to it, even if they could've come up with something original.

Agreed


:foodndrink:

I blame developers due to laziness and cutting corners, not the design itself. Also, as New Vegas shows, publisher pressure doesnt help. That said, I already said this earlier, but I LIKE the ability to explore without 'LOLNEXTNODEPLZ' every few hundred feet, that kind of crap is way to 90's, back when the technology was limited in capability, in my mind there's no excuse to make severly limited places anymore when any dev team that clocks its creativity over time can give every building a background. But the thing is, not EVERYTHING needs a backstory, you find a 200+ year old Pre-War gas station in the middle of nowhere, and it's empty and deserted because it offers no benefits for Wasters, ergo its just an empty small loot shack or something, maybe a matress a drifter drug with them is left behind.


The first and second sentences I agree with, to a certain degree at least.

But if 'LOLNEXTNODEPLZ' was always your stance, I can understand you not wanting them. That doesn't, however, cut short the benefits they offer over a sandbox. And like I said, DA:O did fairly well for attempting to be more 90's than forcing the 21'st century "as you please" gameplay to it, and people liked it. Further more, there is nothing to suggest that a nodebased system couldn't reap the benefits of current tech. In fact, technology has nothing to do with whether or not the game is of nodes. Daggerfall was released before the first Fallouts and was an openworld FPP game. Having nodes is a design decision, not a technical limitation. And sandboxes are severily limited. Even more so than nodes due to every piece of content needing to be downscaled and hamfisted in this one area. And I don't really see what your gas station/backstory example has to do with anything I said, there's nothing to suggest there can't be random stuff with nodes, there was plenty in the originals.
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Cathrin Hummel
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:39 pm

DA:O appealed to great many people despite its nodes being really, really small and cramped, and I'm not asking for such nodes. Not even nodes like in the originals containing only one settlement. I don't see how a well done nodebased system would hurt the games "standing" if it, along with other stuff, offered what the explorerpeople ask: Exploring.

But if 'LOLNEXTNODEPLZ' was always your stance, I can understand you not wanting them. That doesn't, however, cut short the benefits they offer over a sandbox. And like I said, DA:O did fairly well for attempting to be more 90's than forcing the 21'st century "as you please" gameplay to it, and people liked it. Further more, there is nothing to suggest that a nodebased system couldn't reap the benefits of current tech. In fact, technology has nothing to do with whether or not the game is of nodes. Daggerfall was released before the first Fallouts and was an openworld FPP game. Having nodes is a design decision, not a technical limitation. And sandboxes are severily limited. Even more so than nodes due to every piece of content needing to be downscaled and hamfisted in this one area. And I don't really see what your gas station/backstory example has to do with anything I said, there's nothing to suggest there can't be random stuff with nodes, there was plenty in the originals.


Agreed, Dragon Age: Origins is proof that games like Fallout 1/2 could fare very well in the modern market if tweaked a bit. The problem here is expectations, most Fallout fans who came into the series through Fallout 1 and/or 2 probably jumped ship a long time ago, I know that I jumped ship before Fallout 3 reinvigorated my interest in the series (and after Oblivion I wasn't even sure I was going to bother with it). Most Fallout fans now are of a younger generation who expect a TES-like open world shooter, and if Bethesda suddenly makes the series node based again (however well done the node system may be) many Fallout 3 fans will cry foul and may not even purchase the game. Heck, look how many of them reacted to New Vegas' world which actually was open. Now imagine how they'd react to a world that was cut up into chunks instead of being completely open.
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Motionsharp
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:15 pm

Agreed, Dragon Age: Origins is proof that games like Fallout 1/2 could fare very well in the modern market if tweaked a bit. The problem here is expectations, most Fallout fans who came into the series through Fallout 1 and/or 2 probably jumped ship a long time ago, I know that I jumped ship before Fallout 3 reinvigorated my interest in the series (and after Oblivion I wasn't even sure I was going to bother with it). Most Fallout fans now are of a younger generation who expect a TES-like open world shooter, and if Bethesda suddenly makes the series node based again (however well done the node system may be) many Fallout 3 fans will cry foul and may not even purchase the game. Heck, look how many of them reacted to New Vegas' world which actually was open. Now imagine how they'd react to a world that was cut up into chunks instead of being completely open.


Yeah, true. Which is a shame, as I don't see the sandbox being able offer much more than it already has. :sadvaultboy:
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Kelly John
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:53 pm

Fallout 3 was my first Bethesda Game, after I played atleast 500 hours in FO3. I switched over to Oblivian , put in atleast 120 hours into that... Anyways I kept coming back to fallout, I love the story behind the game, it's quirky, Anyways I have put around 200 hours into FO1 And FO2.. I do like the FO3 style of gameplay but I could live with FO1 type gameplay but I would be a little upset, I believe the nodes were used becuase of the lack tech at the time...Also bethesda could remain a little more closer to the orignal cannon
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sam smith
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:14 am

It's also important to realize that nodes would drastically decrease the number of annoying glitches that seem mandatory for any Bethesda game. Since the game would load a much smaller unit, chunks would be better controlled and there would be fewer programming issues. Nodes are an awesome tool for any aspiring computer programmer.
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M!KkI
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:50 pm

see does anyone think that bethesda should team up with bungie or any of the other major game companys just to improve the games graphics bugs and gameplay in general i mean make it more realistic in ways like halo reach and MW3 did?
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IM NOT EASY
 
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Post » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:31 pm

Bethesda sould team up with Obsidian again. Obsidian makes the game and Bethesda just publishes it. :fallout:
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Lynne Hinton
 
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