What not to do with Project V13.

Post » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:01 pm

1. Do not market it to the public. Market it to the people who enjoyed Fallout 1 and 2? Why? Do you remember back in the days before Warcraft was an MMO based franchise? Not many people knew about it, and the people who did were the gamers, who really appreciated the storyline, and the canon. They appreciated the fun the game provided, but still liked to compete. Flash forward to the release of World of Warcraft. Now, 50% of the people who play WoW don't know there were actual games besides the MMO. Why? Because the commercials market it towards people who want to just play a game, without bothering about the Canon. There's no story in the commercials, just random people bashing each other.

2. Make it first person, or overhead perspective, and for gods sake do not copy WoW. I can't stress this enough. The only way to play a Fallout game is in First person, or overhead. A third person game won't work well, and really, if you want to define the game, you shouldn't succumb to the WoW clone syndrome.

3. If it's a wasteland, you don't see 20 people running around in it. Make around 30 servers, and make the game world a huge environment. I don't want to see 5 people walking around, asking me to PvP.

4. Please don't add absolutely moronic edits to the game, to make it PG. All 3 (4 if you count Van Buren) games had swearing and advlt themes. Don't dumb it down.
User avatar
Shae Munro
 
Posts: 3443
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:32 am

Post » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:45 pm

1.Hmm. I wouldn't take away marketing, this game needs people to play it and its not particulary fair to only let people who knew about the old games to play it :O WHAT IF MANY F3 FANS WHERE TO COME :P BUT you could do good marketing aswell... Not like wow with random famous people (Ozzy :/) talking in it, but instead have a commercial with: From the makers of F1,F2 bla bla bla, I would rather say no shitty marketing.

2.Agree with that, I'm most for the isometric perspective, the classic fallout perspective is perfect (apart from some small problems when moving the screen sometimes, the edges felt like tetris xD hard to explain :/), just that with great graphics :/

3.I agree with that aswell, its not a wasteland if there are people everywhere (except for in towns that are the meeting grounds), a good comunication way that i feel is to use radios. Not the normal chat where you type -/w "name" hi, where are you?- I would rather see that you cannot talk to people who are very far away without using a radio, just type in a channel, like 2238 and then let the other person do that aswell and you'r good to talk. This also makes it realistic and a good way for guilds/corporations/clans to talk to eachother AND if someone is able to steal the radio they can listen to them and plot against them. ^^

4.Ye that is a must :shock: hmm, it's not impossible thou to make optional censuring :P like all the swears ingame can be censured (if the game is texted like in F1,F2 the way I want it), just make it an option ingame, so if you want to play with swears then do it, if not play without. The old Fallout had language filter.
language filter on:
Don: Where the ¤#"¤% have you been. see you can still have advlt conversations with the filter on. Image
User avatar
Reven Lord
 
Posts: 3452
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:56 pm

Post » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:46 pm

I have a problem with #3 mishmaster5000. And the problem is this is a MMO. You can't have a barren wasteland game and call it a MMO. There has to be compromises, there has to be some flexibility.

However I also know what point your trying to make. So I would say instead of just making lots of servers which costs lots of money. Just set certain areas to insane difficulties where soloing is not recommended, but group runs. That way, only certain areas of the wasteland you will find a heavy concentration of people, becuase they are low level areas or safe havens, but in other areas which are more dangerous, you will find alot less people. That would seem more fitting and funner in my opinion.
User avatar
Chloe Lou
 
Posts: 3476
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:08 am

Post » Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:12 pm

How about instead you can only see individuals (players) of certain strengths (levels or what every it is called).
Say a range of +/- 5 levels.

That way you will only see limited number of individuals at any given time, even if there are thousands playing at the same moment.

You would always see NPC's no matter what strenght they are.

Kind of like the good/evil bit that many other MMO's have but in this case it determines who you can see or not see.

Dave Chase
User avatar
Danger Mouse
 
Posts: 3393
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:55 am

Post » Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:34 pm

hi all! it's my first post here so i'm excited a bit :)
Mishmaster has posted a nice theme.

about 1:
yeah, unfortonately, good mmog MUST be somewhat commercial. There is one choice: to be commercial or to be dead. Just don't make it all only abotu money pls (i've played wow from usa beta 5 years 1 month & 16 days so i don't plan to take swords anymore but hope about plasmagun :))

about 2:
make it what would be better. remember f1? im still playing it :) it's imba! who care about how chess looks like? sure design and GUI must be nice because it will bring more ppl into game, but what about 1 point above about commerciality?:) fp imho good as well as overhead, i can't see what is going on behind me in rl :) jsut more rl simulation with tesla armor on me :)

about 3:
bikkebakke's right about it's impossible to make barren but i think Mishmaster just meaning about whole idea. It's OK to have REAL landmasses & no problem if you will be alone in desert for a while. I got surprised at first & bored at all when i realized that i can't feel spirit of thick grove or gorge in wow (y,y,y it's still first now and most ppl will check & compare wow with p13 as well as with other upcoming mmog). I want to remind also that it's not good idea to make a low population server for making deserts deserted :)

about 4:
remark: sorry for my english, it's not my native. sorry for my soul, it's russian.
fcuk PEGI. Switch TV on, watch CNN\Euronews - what's going on in the world? is it for children? so pls keep life simulation, even sci-fi as much as possible close to reallife. it will also bring a lot of PROPER commercial :D i want to be able to shoot guard! or die trying! :)



p.s. i stopped to play wow because it grown in unproper way. i don't want to tell about hardcoe fights - i didn't catched it anyway. i don't want to tell about pvp - i was tank :)
i'm telling about soul, which was in vanilla and died too fast, thanks devs for that :) i got my rl :D
but i am gamer and i want to keep my mind in jail of good game! :)
User avatar
Milagros Osorio
 
Posts: 3426
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:33 pm

Post » Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:57 am

Don't do isometric-don't see it working. I'm a huge fan but we gotta roll with times.

do not dumb it down or dont make it at all
User avatar
Samantha Mitchell
 
Posts: 3459
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:33 pm

Post » Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:13 pm

Perfect title "What not to do with Project V13."


So you want a game that wont provide the most possible money to gamesas. Not a good choice. Keep the cannon and the fallout feel.....but making it a mass market game is what a game company is about. Oh yes the small Blizzard who had a couple of hits into the money printing machine it is now. They make more money now then a 3rd world country ya gamesas....please don't do that.


People like seeing there characters...no sense in having a create a character engine when you cant even see your own character or if you want to you have to scroll in so close the game is unplayable.


So....let force the company that already scrambling for funding, need more to fund the server farms its going to need so you and 6 other guys can wander around your own personal wasteland. I understand the want for a true wasteland feel. I remember seeing a ton of guys In Barter town.

So.....lets lower the income they will receive from the game, Make it cost more to keep running with the server farms. So you can have a bit of nostalgia. Its thinking like that that caused gamesas to go bankrupt in the first place. I would rather have gamesas around for many many years then to have them give me one last game before they are bankrupted by trying to please the same fans who drove them to bankruptcy.

Sorry I guess that came off as kinda snippy. It's just irritating to see that type of thing.
1. If gamesas goes bankrupt after making this game....the servers go with them....game over. *yes i know there are ways to make the game live on like have been done in the past with others*
2. Point of this game is to revive gamesas as a viable company in the game market. If they tailor it to suit the existing fan base for the old school fallout's. Some of those people have moved on all they are going to do is cut there own throat.
3. I understand you want to have the perfect game to suit you but for gamesas to be around to make another game in the future, which i wish they are because they have brought a lot of great titles to the market that i have enjoyed for years, they need to make as much money as they possibly can with this title while catering to the old school fans and bringing in enough innovation to draw some new blood. Its a pretty messed up tight rope gamesas has to walk right now and they know it. Please the old school diehards while drawing in enough newblood to keep the company going.....because if the diehards where enough to keep the company alive ...they wouldn't have had to sell the Fallout license in the first place. Image
User avatar
Queen Bitch
 
Posts: 3312
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:43 pm

Post » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:08 pm

Something I would HATE to see is watered down Power Armor. I loved the feel of being untouchable in the first two Fallouts after getting into a sweet sweet suit of Power Armor.
Also, don't make it easy, make it hard! I hated how easy Fallout 3 was, even the hardest difficulty was far easier than the easiest in Fallout 2.
Making ammo easy to find would be a big mistake, make a player feel the squeeze every time he has to use a bullet.
User avatar
noa zarfati
 
Posts: 3410
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:54 am

Post » Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:34 am

The op's comments are unreasonable and bordeline fantasy. Games are designed to be played by players. You want fallout to cater to your personal likes.


The only thing v13 should not do is charge a monthly suscription. This is reasonable and sound. V13 will not have the support and customer service and professional coding needed to fix and patch and serve its customers. hence, a pay-to-play will have players looking for another game and criticizing what a colossal mistake v13 was.

This should be a free game because it will be a limited game. Companies with larger staff and larger free cash flow have problems with staffing and repairs, a tiny gamesas with foreign 3d engine and workers will not appeal to usa gamers.
User avatar
Guy Pearce
 
Posts: 3499
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 3:08 pm

Post » Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:57 am




Depending on how efficient the code is in interacting with the database infrastructure and the OS, you may not need that many servers.

You should also run multiple VMWare Virtual Machine servers to really make use of the hardware if your servers are not utilizing anywhere near their full CPU cycles but this all depends on where they want to go with it in terms of funding and scope.

They need to do research to find out how many people want to sign up and go accordingly which means the public beta is critical for more than just ironing bugs out.

They could always farm out some of the server requirements to a Data Center and depending on whether or not there is a need to expand to dedicated gamesas owned servers

They need to evangelize the game on Youtube and other sites. Any free publicity they can get the better.

Also I could give them a RAID50 everything running from an Enterprise SAN solution that would save them around 500k per SAN compared to Industry Monopolist EMC but at that point I'd have to be personally involved and I'd rather not discuss intimate details on a board.

My Enterprise SAN solutions :ugeek: are currently working for the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines's critical near 100% uptime required Massive Hospital IT Infrastructure so implementing it for gamesas should not be a big deal provided they have the right team to work with.

If they're serious about the overall IT infrastructure viability of Project V13 and want to keep costs under control, they'll call me.

It is yet to be determined how serious they are about how big the launch of Project V13 is going to be.
User avatar
Khamaji Taylor
 
Posts: 3437
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:15 am

Post » Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:07 pm




1: The game is going to be advertised. It is a must in todays world.

2: I agree first person is a must, but you also need to allow the player to pick 3rd person. Seeing how fallout 1 and 2 were both 3rd person.

3: I disagree 100% on this one. In fallout 1 and 2 you run across groups of people. And look at the cities in both fallout 1 and 2. Now I know you don`t want to see 10 people running around the same area killing the same things like in other MMO's, but it is going to happen. There is no way for gamesas to limit a area to only allow x-amount of players in a givin area and still make the game playable.

4: I do agree 100% on this one. When i started playing fallout, i loved that it wasn`t dumbed down and censored to the point that it was just stupid. I liked the fact that if someone was pissed at you they were more than happy to tell you in the greatest of ways. And come on.... who didn`t love staring in a pormo. :mrgreen: Image
Just remember, an amature built the ark ...... professionals built the titanic ....
User avatar
Alex [AK]
 
Posts: 3436
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:01 pm

Post » Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:52 am

1) I disagree. Marketing has to be expansive and complete. Just make sure the player knows what to expect so there are no surprises that usually drive people away from MMOs (PvP and etc). Other surprises such as gear, weapons, and even negative sensational surprises are good to go - it is Fallout after all. In addition, it is a bad business model not to advertise and gamesas-Resurrected will have a huge uphill battle with Turbine, Bioware, Blizzard, and etc. And who knows what that other wannabe FO maker will come up with next to throw in a clog (sabot) or two?

2) I prefer any mode - 1st person, overhead, or 3rd person that way everyone can be happy. I really dislike 1st person unless it was in a VR environment. If you limit the game to one view, then only people who like that view will play the game and that is bad for business. If it is bad for business, the game will not last long, the money will decline, and the servers will go offline.

3) I am not sure how that would work out because of the cost. As for the VMware or VMware-like idea, I am not sure how that will work since there are problems that do arise from using virtual machines. If they can run it efficiently on VMs, server operations would be easier for them and in turn easier on us.

Instead of letting hardware resources control the population, how about letting gaming environment control the population? Well vault dweller, how are you going to survive in the heated and radioactive desert? You want power armor, how are you going to get it and where? You want an NBC suit? Ok, how are you going to cool yourself in the hot desert? ... etc etc etc.

4) I agree, the game should not be dumb down at all. That is the parent's responsibility and I am a parent.

Other things to avoid - gear gaiting like what is going on in LOTRO. To be in a raid in some of the current quests, you have to have certain armor to go. And the only way to get this armor, is by going in a different dungeon over and over again because you have to share or by going through one quick instance 20 times - can you say BORING! Allow players the option to ascertain items from instances (both pvp and pve), or craft them, or purchase them from either an auction hall like environment or from a NPC vendor, or all of the above. Allow more than 1 way to complete an objective - be dynamic.

Grinding! Please no excessive amount of grinding. Make items drop at random from multiple sources even if they are high level - we can always store them for future use. Be dynamic and surprise us! Make sure to tell us that we just found a special item so we do not discard\vendor trash it and so we can discover its uses later on. Maybe even craft items to make other items.
User avatar
Chris Guerin
 
Posts: 3395
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 2:44 pm

Post » Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:42 pm

1. In this day and age, I'm not sure you really need to market a new MMO at all. There are so many media sources covering these games and most importantly word of mouth - if the MMO is exceptional, players will flock to it.

2. Make it an advlt game. All you have to do is look at the success of Bioware to see that players want advlt games. Hell.. they want games that are even MORE advlt. And of course - the moment FOXNews gets wind of a possible boob in your game - you'll have tons of free advertising. ca-ching! $$$$$

3. Please don't make it small. The last 4 or 5 MMOs I've played have felt so tiny. Not sure where it started, but somehow it became the hot trend to make everything in MMO-lands crushed as close together as possible. If the wind was at my back I felt like I could possibly toss a rock across Aion!

4. Instanced 'dungeons' are cool. Instanced towns and whole geographic zones are not cool.

5. Death penalties, PvP, and PvE: Just break the game into 4 zones. 1 - no pvp, no dp 2 - pvp, no dp 3. pvp, minor dp, no corpse looting 4. pvp, greater dp, some form of pvp corpse looting.

There you cover all styles of play AND you can still put some high level PvE content in the safer zones, while putting some other in the dangerous zones.

6. Do not launch the game without lots of endgame content. In fact..... BUILD the game in reverse.

Players will be 100% more happy if you have a glut of endgame zones and only a few levelling zones... as opposed to the opposite which is almost standard these days - yet seems right out of the book of MMO FAIL.
User avatar
Laura Elizabeth
 
Posts: 3454
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:34 pm

Post » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:45 pm



1 - Market it to whomever...but keep it true to the Fallout Genre. I guess the OP's point here is please don't sell-out and make a crappy game for profit only. I know gamesas needs the cashflow, but the success of V13 will come from the play experience that is uniquely Fallout.

2 - Make it both...Start in 3rd person or if you zoom all the way in go to 1st person view

3 - Take a note from something another MMO did that was very successful: You could make explorable areas instanced per party or maybe per average level for that party

4 - You can have both. Add a language filter that adds #%$&! over text swearing (in-chat too plz) and an audio BLEEP for voiceovers If you see Metal Maniac, let him know I'm looking for 'em.
User avatar
James Wilson
 
Posts: 3457
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:51 pm

Post » Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:30 pm

My own list of not-do-to's:

1-Don't make it a shooter. You can make the action look kind of like a shooter, but please leave target selection in and just let character skill levels and build-related RPG type stuff determine accuracy. I like shooters and I like RPG's, but that doesn't mean they'll form a digital Reese's cup when combined. I like coffee and beer but you don't see me putting them both in a blender and pushing "innovate" do ya?

2-Don't go batsh** with the graphics. A Fallout game's appeal comes from the gameplay, not the eye candy. The screenshots so far could stand a little doctoring up here and there, but for the most part it looks great. No need to go overboard with next-gen eye-popping framerate-gouging polygon orgies.

3-Don't bow down at the altar of high level caps. It's a myth that an RPG can't be good without a high level cap. All high level caps do is give a bonor to mathletes. A midrange level cap, like between 20 and 50, will work just fine, especially if you include a decent scaling system for critters and loot. Level grind is still grind, even if the schizophrenic gamers out there won't admit it.

4-Don't drown the game in self-serving distraction features. D&D games and player created content are horrible about this. They put in convoluded crafting systems, customizable player housing, over-developed forges, and all kinds of other extraneous crap in an adventure, and it pulls players away from both each other and the actual gameplay. Instead of teaming up with buddies and adventuring, Bolt Van Der Huge is adding upgrade after upgrade to his sword, farming 50 splinters to make one arrow, and arranging furniture in his treehouse for three hours. Much more fun than actually playing the game, huh? :roll:

5-Don't let players steal items from each other. Bottle caps and currency, maybe. But if I spend an hour battling a radiated manbearpig to get down to a room with a rocket launcher in it, I don't want some flaky douchebag waiting outside the door to yoink half my inventory. Player to player thefts should be either non-existent or extremely limitted. Also, vehicles and their trunk contents should be immune to theft. I don't want some prick hotwiring my highwayman while I'm in the infirmiry trying to sweet talk a ghoul nurse.

6-Don't neuter the super sledge. Bethesda dropped the ball with the Super Sledge in Fallout 3. They weighed too much, had no kinetic knockback/knockdown, and there were so few of them that repairing one to max condition was a pain in the ass. If I whack you in the head with a super sledge and a strength of 10, scoring a snazzy critical hit, I expect you to either fall down or fly away. I'll accept nothing less. :twisted:

7-Don't neglect the Science and Repair skills. This is something where I think Fallout 3 was actually better than the first two (blasphemy!). Using the science skill frequently to gain access to security/lockdown terminals and the repair skill to maintain gear was very satisfying and made the skills very active and useful. There wasn't a lot you could do with science and repair in Fallout 1 and 2, and whenever I made a techie character they felt even less effective than speech characters.

8-Don't leave charisma so weak. In all 4 games, charisma is simply too weak. Virtually every other stat and/or their related skills have some kind of combat function, either through perks or whatever. But charisma is ONLY used outside of combat. Don't overdo it, but please add some minor tweak that will have charisma gain a combat role. For instance, enemies have a 3% higher chance to cower in fear or flee from combat for every point of charisma over 5. You could also add a handful of perks such as "War Face: whenever an enemy first detects you, they have a 50% chance of being stunned for 3 seconds (or 1 turn or whatever)". Anyway it doesn't have to be much, but a couple of charisma based combat skills like taunting, intimidating, etc would go a long way in evening it out.

9-Don't turn Tesla Armor into power armor. This is another thing that was pointless and goofy that Bethesda did with FO3. Tesla armor looked and played so much nicer when it was just a high-tech metal armor suit with awesome energy resistances.

10-Don't have books permanently raise skills. Reading Guns and Bullets should not permanently raise my small guns skill. A system like this in an MMO would make it way too easy for people to just take tag skills that can't be raised by books, and then farm like hell to buy books to raise their other skill levels. It would also astronomically raise the price and rarity of said books. Instead, convert skill books to magazine issues, and whenever a character reads one, it acts like a new issue, and for the next 24 hours or an amount of time based on their intelligence (short term memory), they get a TEMPORARY boost to the associated skill. You won't really need to change the names of any of the books except for Big Book of Science, which you could just rename to Atomic Physics Weekly or something.

Well that's it for now but I'm sure I'll come up with more unreasonable orders to bark at you. :D
User avatar
kirsty joanne hines
 
Posts: 3361
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:06 am

Post » Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:25 pm

I agree with this but again you want to be able to have millions of people play the game so gamesas can continue to add content and make the game better. MMO is to have a Massive amount of people playing the game. You can achieve this with environment changes as a player gets farther away from the city they start entering isolated instances. WoW does this pretty well to handle the story telling in-game. There is this one complete area of the map where some characters seem to just disapear right in front of your eyes. The reason for this is that the two players are at different time periods in the MMO story line. I remember walking into an area and there were no NPC's and when I walked in with another player he disapeared. I needed to complete a quest or part of the story for my character to start seeing the NPC's and other players again. Similarly, as you walk away or towards a city select players in your area start disapearing isolating you into the wastelands. If your in a group the group continues together.

the other option is to make the wasteland its own instance like mentioned below and only allow one player or group to enter; but where is the PVP in that?

[quote="mishmaster5000"]
3. If it's a wasteland, you don't see 20 people running around in it. Make around 30 servers, and make the game world a huge environment. I don't want to see 5 people walking around, asking me to PvP.
quote]
User avatar
RUby DIaz
 
Posts: 3383
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:18 am


Return to Othor Games