YoU just go there and FAP on the anvil when nobody looks -_-

Think the problem i have with it is i kinda like crafting, but because i like crafting i pretty much break the game.

ANY armour can reach the hardcap 567
ALL Daedric Weaponry can exceed 500 damage (except the Dagger)
Also you can enchant armor to reach 97.75% magic damage reduction

So first no challange to get crafting to max level, then by using it you pretty much have godmode.

Read more in http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1300996-armor-cap-ridiculous-damage-enchanting-alchemy-smithing-only-21-perks-thread-5/

The only thing that needs to change is for the addition of diminishing returns into the game mechanics...frankly there just isnt any.

For anyone curious about how it is done, or who doesn't believe it is as strong as it is, here is a quick video tutorial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEQe0_Vbv6M

It's quite simple really...

People don't think that you should be able to craft nothing but hide bracers/iron daggers until smithing is 100... They think that you should have to step it up and that iron daggers/hide bracers should become obsolete and give no skill points after a specific skill level is hit.

I mean the gripe they have is quite legitimate... You should have to step from hide to iron to steel etc. etc... Iron daggers and Hide bracers shouldn't carry you all the way to 100...

Even if you wish to level it any other way, it is still ridiculously hard to impose those rules on yourself, because there's no way to know specifically when you should impose a ban on making hide/iron... Is 20 too high a level to make hide gear? what about iron?? 30?? maybe 50?? There's too much leway... You have to create multiple items in order to get to 100 smithing to begin with... So you have to double up at some point... Where ??

I don't think it's too much to ask for crafted materials to stop giving skill points as your skill increases.

Really you can abuse just about any skill by power leveling it, but some are more useful than others.

Smithing is significantly easier than other skill (though Pickpocketing can come close) to power level, given the abundance of materials. Alchemy would be in a similar boat if it did not take so many potions to level up.

Also there are some downsides to power leveling some non combat skills. Smithing gives those downsides the middle finger and actually helps ease difficulty curves caused by certain types of encounters.

Its called gimping your character. Go around at like level 10 or 15 and max out smithing. Yeah you will have great gear, but your combat skills will still be crappy.......simple as that......

i dont think you can really "exploit" a single player game.

such a thing is only an issue, in any way, if it affects someone else and, as the game is single player, it simply doesn't (well not unless you are the kind of "someone" to whom playground bragging is still important...)

furthermore there are hard caps on armor damage reduction (80%) and on the limit to which you can boost gear and potions via fortify alchemy and smithing enchants (29%) which indicates that its intended to work this way because if it was not the developers would not have put a that cap into the code. the very existence of such caps represent a "line in the sand" and indicates forethought and measured consideration therefore pushing all the way up to them cannot, in any way, be considered going against the developers intent.

the "recommended" play styles suggest that Alchemy is THE crafting skill for Thiefs, Smithing is THE crafting skill for Warrors and Enchanting is THE crafting skill for Mages. if you take all three you gimp your available points under the 50 cap for class related skills and remove a great deal of the flexibility and subtlety from your character. its also no accident that you can make 100%+ smithing potions: they are to counter the fact that to build a decent Thief you shouldn't be spending all your points in "the Warrior's" smithing tree where you get +100% (or rather x2 improvements) for each armor type.

the alternative phrase for "exploit" has near always been "creative use of game mechanics" and that in truth is what is being talked about here not "exploiting"

in the end the game is single player, has flexible difficulty levels that can even be altered mid fight, has a console that is freely assessable when it could so easily not be and full modding support that allows people to do virtually almost anything.

in short: this game is very much about how YOU play it. NOT any one else.

PS. there is ""one issue" that i can see atm and that is the Falmer Helmet and the old hat stacking bug from FO3 (new engine my backside ) that is the only thing wrong with the whole set up atm....that and some people seem to think its an mmo or something....

PSS. 100% magical damage reduction is a much nicer "exploit" anyway seriously my Lydia is virtually immune to dragons...

The OP is referring to the enchanting/alchemy/smithing exploit. Obviously this means that Smithing alone does not achieve that exploit. In regards to what you're talking about what, Smithing is THE non combat ability that you can power level without experiencing this issue as badly. Part of this is unavoidable since equipment is always going to have an impact on encounter difficulty. It's part and parcel of what equipment does. In the long run it actually helps you smooth that combat issue out faster than power leveling most other noncombat skills will.

Seems Bethesda disagrees with you.



http://www.bethblog.com/

Note the s on exploits. Denotes more than one.

Not that it effects me, as simply don't do it. I couldn't care less what others do in their game.
It is their game, not mine.

The problem is i like playing a crafter style character, and the big point about Skyrim it is there is no recomended playstyle.
It's just feels silly to say .... ooooh im getting to good at the stuff i like, better do something else before i ruining the game.

Feel like a few simple changes would no hurt.
Hide/Iron stops giving exp after 35
Steel/Studded stops giving exp after 50
...
Also hardcap skills to 120 or something when using enchantments and potions.

There will be mods for this someday so i don't worry much about it, i just have to wait to play a crafter style character.

This...this...aaaaaaaaaand this.

The fact this is a single player game is irrelevant to arguments against fixes. First example that comes to my mind is some of the Madden games. A number of iterations of the game has had issues with things like cornerback animations and AI awareness making for ridiculous number of unrealistic interceptions or exploits of certain pre snap adjustments with certain plays causing instant sacks. The fact this could happen in either single player vs computer or vs another player was irrelevant. Either way it was an issue.

I wouldn't count getting the skill to 100 as exploiting. Exploiting would be to make 50 potions of fortify enchanting, create a full set of fortify alchemy gear at enchanting, creating new, even more powerful enchanting boosting stuff and finally creating very, very powerful gear and potions that you use at the same time to be able to make an iron dagger that does 10000000000 damage.


Smithing can't have such a limitation for it's XP system as some of you suggest. You need to be able to get it to 100 without spending perks into it, because that's what you can do with ever other skill. In addition, if you are such a high level that you won't get enough perks to be able to get all the perks required to level smithing to 100 (with your XP limitation), it'd mean they'd never be able to level smithing to 100.

Instead, the XP gained from making small items from weak materials should be very small, while making a piece of daedric or ebony armor would give quite a lot of XP. Meaning, instead of just making three iron daggers to level smithing from 40 to 41, you'd need to create 15 iron daggers or 3 dwarven war axes.

tbth i'm wondering, if RP/playing a charter a certain way is that important to you, why don't you just exercise some self control then ?

anyway the truth about smithing is that it takes more and more and more iron daggers or leather bracers or whatever per point the higher you go up and there is a hard cap on the enchantments and potions thing its just a little over atm if you use one singular thing ive already mentioned in the thread but tbh all that saves you is some time (one less "circle"). the hard cap = 147% for smithing potions and 37% for enchanting potions afaik.

seems many people seems to think you can go up and up and up and up. but you can't.

you can't lock out skill ups from low level mats because that would mean everyone who wanted to upgrade their gear would have to invest a great deal of time into smithing and that's not what this game is about. this game is about saying "ok you want to run around as Conan in little more than a loincloth and fight dragons ? ok you can do that just do X, Y and Z" the "end game" is not is not everyone playing in Daedric armor after grinding smithing for weeks...indeed there is no "end game".

the hard cap is 147% for smithing potions and 37% for enchanting potions afaik. seems many people seems to think you can go up and up and up and up. you can't.


[img]http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc427/ihatemyjob/2011-11-30_00001.jpg[/img]

Actually..........

I think it should be a lot like Alchemy. Have you tried going from say 99 to 100 in alchemy making basic Restore Health Potions? You'd probably have to make 100+ of them (more without perks). On the other hand you make ~10 perked up invisibility/slow/other expensive potions and get the level. With Alchemy the value of the potion effects how much it contributes to the level.

If smithing had the same thing the iron dagger spammers could still hit 100, it would just be slow and painful. On the other hand make a few ebony/deadric/glass whatevers and boom there's your level. I'd also like to see a similar system for enchanting. You don't become a master craftsman doing the most basic thing over and over again.

That'd create a bit too much imbalance, if it was purely on the value. But a little tweak of the maximum XP possible per created piece and it'd be good. For example, creating an item that requires one iron ingot and one leather stripe would give 10XP. Creating an item that requires two iron ingots and one leather stripe would give 16XP. Creating an item that needs one ebony ingot and a leather striper would give 50XP. Material and amount would give more XP, instead of value. Because that'd mean 100 iron daggers = 1 daedric dagger, instead of 40 iron daggers = 1 daedric dagger.

@ MrMephistopheles

lol

1stly i dunno how anyone did that outside console commands that can raise your skill to any level but the caps are there when you try and raise the bar through the normal means (and i know that for a fact because i did it just today)

2ndly magical resistances loop back round at 100% so it's important NOT to wear 110% resist gear gawd knows what that ring is actually doing but its unlikely (and pointless) to go beyond 100% resist.

Why do you need to be able to get to 100 without spending perks on it?
The reason that u can for other skills is just not a reason at all.

But ofc lowering exp route also works, was just an example.



This game is about role playing, i want to play a role of a crafter being as good as can be.
Fighting and adventuring is my side business.

Just like you have fighting with the side-business of crafting.

Also it don't take weeks it takes a couple of hours ...

no console. You can do it on Xbox and PS3 as well. It's an alchemy bug/exploit.

Albeit one that you have to actively chase, and not something one would come about by accident.

Hardly gamebreaking.

Would it be gamebreaking if u did try to achive as high weaponskill possible and just after a few hours ending up oneshotting all mobs thru game?

Because it the same thing... the only thing that differs is that this is for players who like role playing as a crafter not a fighter.

Apart from the discussion if it is "cheating" (it is a sp open world game peeps).... I am anticipating pandemonium if this gets nerfed..