This was supposed to show strength of Dagon over Akatosh.

The guy was master of magic and created a realm inside a book that follows its own laws, where humans(aedric) behaved more like low level daedric beings. I think we can use the guy as an exception to the rules considering all that.

Edit: Considering that it was in HIS realm which followed HIS rules is it really that strange that he could wear it?

Then how could he wear it in Tamriel?
You speak of the lack of evidence for being Dragonborn not being hereditary, but there isn't even real proof for being Dragonborn is a requirement for lighting the Dragonfires.

Again, the guy can create a realm that bends to his will. He has the full backing of one of the most powerful Daedric deities. Regular rules do not apply to this guy. His very purpose is to defy Akatosh and break his pact. Breaking whatever enchantment was placed on the Amulet of Kings seems trivial compare to spear heading a Daedric Invasion imo.

edit: A good chunk of lore is not definitive in TES a lot of it is best guess, it is not definitive if the blessing of Akatosh is hereditary but it is the best guess. It makes more sense than having it bestowed on each heir, since some heirs really didn’t deserve it.

Edit #2: I don’t want to talk about dragon fires lol, the lore flip flops on them, what books say contradicts what happened in TES in the past. It is better to just ignore them, the Amulet of Kings is a bit more has more stable lore.

And then what would stop a person of sufficient willpower to use it? My point is that it has never been proven that only a Dragonborn can light the Dragonfires, and that one cannot prove that being Dragonborn is hereditary.
Also, regarding the Pelagius/Sheogorath point earlier: If he was backed by Sheogorath it would be unnecessary for him to have Akatosh's blessing to use the Amulet.

Edit: If he actually broke the enchantment of the amulet it should allow my character to wear it. Spoiler: It doesn't.

It is all pretty clear in the Dragonborn book, though how "logical" one finds it will vary. The first Dragonborn is Alessia who is an Imperial, and then her descendants get it. Then the next dynasty comes along, Reman the guy from the Pale Pass battle, he is also an Imperial but not related to Alessia. Then you have the third empire, that is Tiber Septim, he is a Nord and not related to either of them. There are also Breton emperors in this dynasty and a dark elf. But within each dynasty, the dragon blood is passed down through heridity. This is similar to what they call in Chinese culture the "Mandate of Heaven". Your dynasty keeps the right to rule until the sky god takes it away from you and gives it to someone else.

I am sure one of the main lore peeps wrote the Dragonborn book, it says straight out it is not heriditary. You get it as a blessing from Akatosh, and if you are in one of the first three Imperial dynasties, you kind of get the blessing automatically if you are a descendant due to Akatosh supporting that dynasty. As for Mankar Camoran, he must have gamed the system somehow to wear the Amulet of Kings, but clearly he wouldn't be blessed by Akatosh.

We know Tiber Spetim came from a Nordic background (somewhere in Skyrim I presume), but we do not know what race he is. He could have easily been an Imperial as he joins the legion and fights against the Nords and becomes known as General Talos. But as far as the prerelease marketing goes, dovakiin is dfinitely a Nord. But I reckon it's better suited for Altmers, because it is a gift from Akatosh.

Edit: Also Unrelenting Force sound much more epic coming from a High Elf's mouth.

What is the fascination with the dragon fires? If the lore about the dragon fires was true Dagon would control everything like 3 times over by now. Ignore the dragon fires, that’s a different story. Again regular rules do not apply to a guy that can create his own daedric realm and whose existence revolves around removing Akatosh from Dagons way. Lore states that the Amulet of Kings can only be worn by those of dragon blood, this is confirmed by you trying to wear it and by Jaufre(sp) saying he can’t wear it either. That is as much evidence as we can ever get in a TES game for ANYTHING.

IIRC the Dragonfires came with the the first recorded Dragonborn, Saint Alessia.
In the end what I argument in favor for is that there is no proof that being Dragonborn is hereditary, unless they add it in a DLC.

I don’t care when dragon fires came, they still don’t make sense because we had a lot of periods in the empire with no legit ruler. The fires were not relit, they just never died down. As if there was a grace period, yet we didn’t get that grace period in oblivion so they don’t make sense. They are a huge oversight and you are basing your entire argument on them and a single severely overpowered person who is comparable to a daedric prince.

Another proof that it is hereditary are the last Septims, they were not directly related to Tiber Septim, but they were related to his brother. The amulet didn’t know the difference because it only recognizes Dragon Blood and if you have it so will your brother. Martin could wear the amulet but you couldn’t because he was dragonborn and you weren’t, yet he was never an Emperor so the whole only rullers get the blessing goes out of the window. It being bestowed on each heir goes out of the windows because some heirs to the throne were nuts. I don’t get how you can close your eyes on so much evidence yet accept something for which there is ZERO evidence.

I always imagine the dragonborn to be a Nord. Just because so much of their culture revolves around dragons, and around Skyrim they're the only NPCs (as far as I'm aware) who can shout.

Okay here we go.

1. Dragonblood and Dragonborn are not the same thing.
2. Talos was probably Atmoran atleast IMO and some in game lore opinions.
3. Imperials are distant relatives too Nords.
4. Dragonborns can be any race the blessing is givin too those deemed the prophecised hero by Akatosh.


that is all.

I don't think dragonborn before Tiber Septim could shout.

I think in LORE it would be a Nord.

Too much ignorance in here. Tiber Septim was NOT a Nord, he was a Breton named Hjalti. People should really stop believing the propaganda they hear in Skyrim about this issue. Wulfharth is the one people are confusing him with, just read this from Uesp's Lore section.

"Ysmir Wulfharth (also known as Ysmir, Dragon of the North) was the Atmora-born ruler of ancient http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Skyrim who came to power with the death of http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Hoag_Merkiller at http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Battle_of_Glenumbria_Moors. He submitted Skyrim to a fiery reinstatement of the traditional Nordic pantheon, destroying Alessian temples and forcing the remnants of its priesthood to seek refuge in the Heartland. Legends claim that an evil god once made him (and all of Skyrim) into children, and when Wulfharth found a way to cure his people, he inadvertently made himself extremely old and died (for the first time). He led the invasion of http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Resdayn (modern-day Morrowind) and fought at the http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Battle_of_Red_Mountain, where he was killed again.

One theory to explain his unusual ability to cheat death suggests that Wulfharth was not a mere man, but one of a series of avatars sent by http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Shor- the Shezarrines. Arguably included among these avatars would be Hans the Fox and Pelinal Whitestrake, among others. The theory claims that Wulfharth reincarnated or recurred, as Shor's avatars are wont to do, as Ysmir, an undead warrior bent on ruling Tamriel (although some suggest Wulfharth was known as Ysmir before this). Thus was born the http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Underking, a title which could perhaps be attached to his predecessors, as well. The undead Wulfharth allied himself with a man from High Rock named Hjalti, the young general http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tiber_Septim, whom he granted the power of Thu'um and acted as a hidden trump card and counselor.

When Talos made peace with the http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tribunal and accepted http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Numidium, Wulfharth felt betrayed and abandoned his ascendant alter-ego. Talos enlisted the help of Imperial Battlemage http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Zurin_Arctus in ambushing and soultrapping Wulfharth (by extension, soultrapping http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Lorkhan himself and enabling the Mantella to serve as a replacement for the http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Heart_of_Lorkhan), thus allowing for the activation of Numidium. Wulfharth killed Zurin Arctus with his dying breath and then returned to dust. Sometime later, Zurin Arctus reappeared as a lich, and it is suspected that Wulfharth possessed Arctus or allowed him to reanimate. In any case, the new being became known as the http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Underking and served the interests of both fallen men, leading to the http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Warp_in_the_West_(event) and the apotheosis of Tiber Septim as a god.

According to this theory, the three people (Wulfharth, Tiber Septim, and Zurin Arctus) can no longer be regarded as separate individuals, but part of the same enantiomorphic Oversoul that makes up the deity known as Talos, filling Shezarr's empty place in the Imperial pantheon. In this way, Wulfharth returned Lorkhan to prominence in Imperial Tamriel."

This brings up somthing else which people are ignorant on.

Tiber Septim ≠ Talos the God.

Talos the man yes, but not the God

I hope people are now more enlightened. I don't want you stepping into the Lore section for the first time and then being quickly shot down by members there lmao

So on topic, the Dragonborn would not need to be a Nord, a Breton or Imperial would do just fine.

This is part of the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Arcturian_Heresy, it is a matter of controversy. "Leading his forces was Hjalti Early-Beard. Hjalti was from the island kingdom of Alcaire, in High Rock, and would become Tiber Septim, the First Emperor of Tamriel." http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_1st_Edition/Cyrodiil it says he was from Atmora, basically a Nord. "A petty king of the Colovian Estates, Cuhlecain, came to power and appointed an Atmoran as General of his legions. General Talos had studied in Skyrim, and used the thu'um."

just because hewas a nord who migrated and descendants lived in imperial land doesn't mean he wasn't a nord to start with -> the fact the septims lived in the imperial city for so long mean they mingled with all races which is why being a desendant works with any race.

Believe me when I say the Arcturian Heresy is most likely the more correct of all the sources. As my History lecturer always says, the most crazy story is most likely the correct one, so ignore the fantasy of the Nords to try and connect Tiber Septim with themselves. It is Wulfharth who those other sources are talking about, the greatest Nord in history. As written up there, he was working behind the scenes whilst Tiber took all the glory. It comes as no surprise really.

I mean honestly, the fact that you find a sword in Skyrim called "Hjalti's Sword" proves it.

If you want to get technical, Tiber Septim was simply human. In his time there were no different human subraces...no imperials, etc...

I am confused.
So is talos the god 3 different people?

Both sides have teories. If it wasn't hereditary it would still make sense that his brothers kin were Dragonborn because they could have been given the blessing. And maybe Akatosh did not care if Pelagius was mad, since he wouldn't rule forever. I believe the years he ruled could seem few and meaningless for the God of Time.
What you present as evidence can be viewed from both sides and does not prove anything. If I say that it is bestowed by Akatosh it does not make it less true if you point out that all Septim Emperors were Dragonborn since he could have decided to grant all of them the blessing.
In short: Your "evidence" does not disprove the "Not heredital" theory since it can be interpretet either way.

Another thing I find interresting is the theory about the Septims being granted the Dragonblood when they relit the Dragonfires. This would also explain how a dunmer with no ties to Talos could be a Dragonborn Empress better than the heritage theory.

As for the Dragonfires not being relit might have to do with the fact that I think it was Talos who started the tradition of darkening the fires on the Emperors death. A very bad idea IMO.

Literally every source on the web says Tiber Septim was of Nordic descent..

There is evidence to suggest he was. You may be interested in http://imperial-library.info/content/mythic-dawn-commentaries-vol-1:
Also consider that dragons (and by extension, dragonborn) have an instinctive need to dominate and rule. Guess what Mankar was trying to do.

http://imperial-library.info/content/book-dragonborn:

The Arcturian Heresy is more convincing than the orthodox version under Tiber Septim. Both are corrupted and both state a Nordic descent but only the former presents the later emperor as the military leader of Colovian troops and Nord berserkers from West-Cyrodiil, thus not of troops from High Rock (vs the orthodox version) that would join an army of Skyrim, though himself, born in High Rock. Now, the reference to High Rock makes no pseudo-historical (lore) sense at all. What makes sense is the connection to Nord berserkers, their traditions and myths and - the fact that emperors always tend to rewrite history in the same fashion - by rooting themselves into the popular myths, to become the expected one by adoption. In this way it is possible to understand Hjalti Early Beard aka Gen. Talos aka Tiber Septim as a grafted dragonborn, grafted by the own grace as emperor, and not already before.

The Aedra have a sense of humor, that's all. That's how The Nereverine could be Imperial or Argonian, The Hero of Kvatch could be a Khajjitt or Altmer, etc. Perhaps the Aedra do it to try to fight intolerance and bigotry amonst men and Mer - nothing like having the re-incarnation of your Dunmer legend be a Nord, eh? Or your Dragonborn be a Redgaurd. Makes it slightly more difficult to cling to notions of racial superiority when the Gods mix it up like that. At least, that's how I like to roleplay it.

One of the loading screens says that Tiber was a Nord.

The Nerevarine totally should be a Dunmer.

I'm actually ditching my Bosmer and re-rolling a Nord battlemage because I can stand the fact that it seems the entire game was written expecting me to be a Nord. Exactly how I felt in Morrowind about the Dark Elves. It's their land; the story is about their heroes, their history; and the current events are about their politics. It only makes sense that you'd want to play as one.