Morality has absolutely nothing to do with someone playing a video game in their own home, unless they are http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/06/20/news_6127866.html

Whether a developer will include a certain level of blood and gore in a particular game hopefully has something to do with whether it is congruent with the story and setting and likely takes into consideration the target market for that game.

Personally, if I'm watching a film with a violent scene, I prefer seeing realistic looking blood and guts in the scene rather than bad f/x that look fake. The TES games have lots of lore, rich stories and huge quests with lots of NPCs, but you must agree that a significant percentage of the time playing any TES game, you are either killing a creature or killing an NPC, with some sort of weapon or magic. I would prefer that the graphic representation of this is done in a realistic way. Others may not. Neither preference is more or less moral.

ANOTHER pointless thread trying to keep the level of mature content at a minimum. Bethesda knows what they are doing, and they know what makes not only a good game, but an amazing game. If you don't like games with mature content, please, for goodness sakes, play games with a "T" or lower on the front. It's the same thing as saying a rated "R" movie is too violent or too mature.

I'm not a psychologist, but is a test to see whether you react the same to violence on television, seen within minutes of finishing a violent game really indicative of the game desensitizing you to real-life violence in a normal situation? I'd like to see results from playing the game on Monday and seeing the violent television on Tuesday...not twenty minutes later.

right and wrong

such funny concepts, and like everything it depends on the person looking at it, for me gore and sixual content is normal because I see worst things on the TV, at least in a game I'm the only one being exposed to the things, it won't make me evil or corrupt my moral judgment, because its a game, I don't start treating people as chess pieces if I play that game for example.

Living through six wars has really "matured" my look on life and I do think that the western societies in general are getting all worked up over the wrong things, and frankly its pathetic, your sacred from video games and movies and you let news on the TV that should make your hair white slide like its nothing.

leave games alone and go freak out on things that really matter, go be nice to your neighbor (I know I did that today) respect your parents, treat everyone as you want to be treated, and live and let live for God's sake.

Thank you.

not to mention. . .

Skyrim will be an m rated game. If you have trouble understanding ratings. Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sixual content and/or strong language.

New vegas top 100 mods having to do with six and gore in a realistic sense.
New Vegas Bounties I
1
someguy2000
218 endorsemants (2 weeks), 1531 endorsemants (all-time)
A World Of Pain
3
djmystro
149 endorsemants (2 weeks), 428 endorsemants (all-time)
Bouncing Natural briasts
8
thaumx
123 endorsemants (2 weeks), 429 endorsemants (all-time)
BEWARE OF GIRL Type 3 HiRez HiDetailed Replacer
15
BlackBlossom
68 endorsemants (2 weeks), 1667 endorsemants (all-time)
Jade Companion
20
Jupitus
54 endorsemants (2 weeks), 138 endorsemants (all-time)


That is just clicking on that. Check this out http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/top/alltime.php?advlt=1

Oh I didn't forget fallout 3 either. http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/top/alltime.php?advlt=1 both of them already had prosttutes in them anyway.

not to mention oblivion http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/top/alltime.php?advlt=1

OMG do i even need to show you this? (Warning do not look at it if your sensitive on a M rated forum) http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT5M-mtEsr_NDAdKDhYPR-A1Osmj9BlxH1dEU_CbFwMoVHKxRyFog

That was battlespire.

So please forgive us for being human. right.

I disagree, I have a moral position believing that this dehumanizing of people is wrong. For instance say 10 people were killed in Iraq yesterday. Most people's reaction will be to srug it off it doesn't matter to them, now say 10 people from your country were killed in Iraq yesterday, you might feel a little bit of national indignation, now say 10 of your family members were killed in Iraq today, then you might actually have an emotional response they were your family. Most people back in the day had an understanding of that, that those 10 people are somebodies family and would feel empathy towards them, now adays that is greatly lacking and that is why I'm morally deterred by supporting a game that would aid in that movement.

I believe that desensitisation is not possible with a person who has moderate intelligence. I mean you would have to be pretty [censored] not to know the difference between a game and reality( not directed at the OP ). If people are going to murder, they will do it because they have a serious mental illness to begin with, not because they have watched too many slasher films or played Fallout 3. I agree that some people will find violence and gore distasteful, and my only advise to them is to not play the game. Life is all about choices.

I'm having trouble understanding your comment.

By "dehumanizing of people" are you referring to characters in the game?

It's not about what is moral, it's about what fits in the game, if you don't like more believable combat (including deaths) don't play games that centers around killing people. To me it'll always be a game and I don't believe a sane mind takes damage from games

I know what you mean, in FO 3 i could never enslave someone, i could shoot the slavers up real good but i couldn't side with them. same in FO NV i can't even bring myself to really side with Ceasar or the powder gangers. i couldn't wipe out the friendly town its just not in me. never went on killing sprees but only because i didnt want to kill someone i shouldnt.

also as to desensitization i could brutally hack a man apart in a video game but IRL i can't even give my brother a good wack in the face when he's really pissing me off. maybe in the arm or something but i can't really hurt people IRL. and i played my first M game when i was like 5. got it taken away for a while...but that was because of actions in game not out.

also if you don't want blood, gore, and or six then play a T game or better yet an E game like Kirby. M games will have blood, and gore, and maybe six.

Well, I'm just gonna say that you are very wrong about this conclusion, apparently a pessimist and that I have no input for a conversation based on this premise.

Good luck with the thread.

Well look for it i'm not your encyclopedia, go to college and learn psycology if ya want. But think logically if you get that reaction from that small amount of time, what do you think the reaction is from playing a game like that for 7 hours a day 2 or more days a week (for most more)

That's not because of desensitization. That's normal tribalism. In most periods of history, caring for your "tribe" and not caring for the outgroups was the norm.

Well I posted this not expecting it to be popular, but I truly do want people to read and consider it, examine yourself, think of your family. I'm not saying people that enjoy the games with that level of gore are evil. I only said exactly what it says in the OP and that is exactly what I mean.

Do a long-term experimental study to demonstrate the "reaction" you predict then your argument will be logical.

It's not the reaction I wonder about, it's the duration. Going from a game where you are supposed to fight enemies that come at you on a screen, to viewing a recreation of violence on a screen a few minutes later seems invalid to me. Your brain is likely still in a fight mode when you are viewing the videos.

What happens when you go outside, go for a walk and then happen to see someone being attacked in real life? Do the psychologist claim that you won't care because you were playing a video game an hour ago? If so, why not test that?

It's an obviously flawed test to reach such a conclusion from.

Hmm...

One of the reasons I would enjoy more graphic violence is to occasionally feel bad, sickened, shocked after killing someone. I want games to play on more emotional strings than just 'fight, win, yay, fight, win, hooray'.

The combination of realistic gore, and other ways to get around combat situations (speechcraft, sneak, whatever), would really emphasize the fact that physical violence is, well, violent. (On a vaguely similar vein, I often wish that the mainstream news coverage of various wars was less sanitized, simply so that people could see what they were voting for).

The ES games have always been very, very violent. The traditional way to get ahead is to constantly pick a fight with people, expecting to win, and to loot their dead corpses. You level by deliberately seeking a cave full of people who will attack you, taking advantage of their suicidal aggressiveness.

Violence is in the action itself. The graphical portrayal of violence is a different issue, and IMHO only weakly related to morality. (I love bad 80s horror, don't feel that says anything about my morality at all).

I'm not demanding anything and hope that Bethesda just make whatever game they want to make... but I believe that more visual gore will in some small way give each combat more weight, and perhaps even emphasize morality.

Oblivion had moral implications that, if taken to extremes, were downright frightening: let's split the world up into good guys and bad guys, and what you should do, right, is kill all the bad guys. You don't have to ever really see them in pain... they'll just fall over and you can take their l33t equipment.

Sorry for wall of text only vaguely related to Skyrim

My last comment on the issue, because as I stated before this thread was meant to get people thinking, that was the best example I could find in 3 mins of searching. If I had a book of psychological studies then I'd be able to give you a better one sooner. There have been many studies over the years yielding similar results, if you are interested then find them. This isn't a debate. If it were then i'd have an obligation.

I don't like to speak without first informing myself and I don't like to maintain fanatic behaviours. So, I have read your link, as it would be unjust to consider that you where wrong without first anolysing your arguments. My conclusion is, that in the experiment, they show that immediately after 20 minutes of playing a violent Video game you are psychologically more prepared to see real violence. Nothing surprising. If someone should ask me I would say the same. I also think that 20 minutes of physical exercises would have the same effect. If they have make the same test a week before with the same results, it could be concerning. Really I think they hadn't followed a very scientific approach here. I think they where too eager to prove their theory.

About your desensibilization training with videogames, this only proves that your instructor think that this would be a effective method, not that it really was. On the other hand without knowing the features of that game, who knows, maybe there where other factors implied.

People used to fear the words of the shaman, and then painted images and the words of the book and the play. Then it was the subversive power of music, the propaganda of radio, then it was television, then the video/dvd. Now it is the turn of the computer game. When will it ever end. :facepalm:

Meh, I never really get pinged when I hear somebody was killed in the world. I don't have any emotional attachment to the person because I never met them. Now if it was someone who I knew or cared for, then it would hit me but otherwise it doesn't bother me. It has nothing to do with video games or violence I see on tv. People die, it's not like it should effect me unless it somehow affects me or someone I know. If everyone in the world was emotionally distraught by the death of strangers, natural or not, then that would seriously shorten your life.

Never :/

That's stupid, no one cried when crusaders marched to massacre a bunch of muslims (except the muslims). Industrialized countries gave two stinks for the starving children in third world countries 50 years ago, just like now. We are all of us desensitized, because we understand people die and we can't change that.

Now your saying you support the act of killing in a game as long as it feels like your not really killing someone? That's desensitizing. I say add gore, add a true death rattle, make me feel the act of taking someones life and maybe then I can start asking true thought provoking things. In stead of just slashing my way through a town people like they were insects or daisies.

But then again it's a game, maybe it shouldn't be anything more than a GAME.

I somewhat agree with you Madaras sometimes the gore in some games is a bit much as in Fallout 3 which is one of my favorite all time games but there is a reason why movies like Saw and Silent Hill were so popular. People like to be scared and freaked out.. lol

Now, as a parent, I won't let my kids play games like that and that is my choice for my kids, and when they are old enough to buy their own games I will let them make that choice for themselves.

The Internet seems to be the next logical step.