If you want to know if it exist or not, do some real research (beyond Google, a decent sized library would be a good start, or at least one on a college campus.)

As stated, I hope they take the tradeoff into consideration, something people have dismissed as being worthless. I made no claim to be morally superior to anyone else in any other way, as we all presumably are buying the game with money that could be spent on other things. I didn't take the conversation outside the bounds of the video game itself, others did. Within the context of this discussion, I think the viewpoint I put forth is more moral, would you disagree?

My memory is fine. My comment was only reflecting the moral soapboxing that I noticed.

http://www.psychologicalscience.org/pdf/pspi/pspi43.pdf

No, no and no. People throughout time have always neglected to care about most people who are not directly related to them. Throughout history there is war and famine and everyone alive subconsciously well at least it wasn't me or my family. If people cared as much about every life lost as they would someone they loved the world would get no where. We would all be in our beds balling our eyes out starving to death. It is natural and necessary for humans to take less interest in those lives whom they do not know.

You realize that some 150,000 people died today? They are no longer living on this lovely planet. Why are you not crying? Has the media corrupted you so badly? It is a pitiful excuse in my opinion to blame anything else for ones own lack of morality, almost as bad as it is it to claim that one morality is superior to another.

To stay on Skyrim then, I don't think preaching about consciences or empathy should be relevant to this forum. This topic would have been better served if the original post focused on gameplay preferences instead of societal effects.

I have difficulty believing that a Fireman's salary is enough incentive to do the job if all that you were in it for was the money.

I would bother explaining, but I doubt it'd help you to understand. Those who would understand likely already do.

The answer to that question always has been and always will be subjective, especially when it comes to any form of media.



If I were seeing that, I would say "No, of course not," personally. But I'm not. I'm seeing fictional characters in a fictional world in which bloodshed and death are part and parcel of a harsh existence due to the fictional context and setting. It's no different than reading a violent book, or watching a violent movie or television show.



The military doesn't play fantasy roleplaying games, or even twitch-based first person shooters. They train soldiers with life-like simulations. There's only ever been one or two games produced, in my opinion, that come close to being what soldiers train with, and they were produced and/or paid for by the military in the first place. Furthermore, the desensitization of which you speak, at least with respect to the military, is a lot more complicated and, in my opinion, subversive, than those simulations. What's far more devastating to human empathy and makes people far more lethal, is when they are taught to dehumanize their adversary by being told, quite literally, that they are, "the scum of the Earth," "not human," "not deserving of compassion or respect," etc. by their battlefield commanders. I have personally spoken to soldiers who have witnessed this. It happens. It is drilled into them, and any dissent from this viewpoint is not tolerated when in combat.

There is no proof that violent videogames desensitize people to real-life violence (although it could be argued that there is some evidence, which is not the same as proof,) and videogames are fictional. On the other hand, there is substantial and compelling evidence (and in some cases clear documentation by mental health professionals) that those who use videogame violence as motivation or inspiration for violent acts, or cannot distinguish between fictional and real scenarios or events, already suffer from underlying neurological or psychiatric pathology not caused by violent fiction or videogames.



"Because they weren't real?" They still aren't real, and if you feel you're becoming used to real gore and death by playing TES, I strongly suggest you consider seeking professional help. I don't mean to offend you in any way. I am not attacking you. I'm being sincere. You should not be being desensitized to real violence by a fantasy roleplaying game. The games are fictional. And believe me, there is a huge difference psychologically between seeing graphics simulating gore, and actually shooting or stabbing another human being. I asked my vet father this once, and he said, "The thing videogames don't simulate are the screams, the smells, the fear (since dying just means you reset,) or the grey matter splattering in your face." Now imagine actually having to experience that, and compare that to playing a videogame. If you still can't see a difference, then, as I said, please see a doctor for the good of yourself and those around you.

I have played violent videogames of an increasingly graphically impressive nature since I was 7 years old. I'm going to be 30 when TES V comes out. I'm a pacifist.
Peace.

If this forum is limited to that type of discussion, then that position is completely valid. I don't know whether the societal effects are allowed or not, but I have seen many posts on Bethesda's finances and whatnot that are not technically related to the game, though they may inform the direction the game goes. In the same way, Bethesda's opinion on how to integrate violence also has an effect on the direction the game goes, though indirectly. In terms of such content in Skyrim, I've already said that I welcome it to around the same degree as was present in Oblivion. There seems to be a consensus in that regard.

I am not saying that people do not care for strangers, I am saying that he is absolutely right when he says that you care more for someone you know, less for a countryman, and even less for someone you perceive as a complete stranger. But that is how it is and always has been. Our morality is a product of our empathy and when a fireman runs into that house to save that kid it is because he could imagine his own son being alone and afraid in such a dangerous situation and would hope someone would do the same thing for his son.

That however can and never has worked on a global scale. I would like it to. Hell it would be the quickest way to world peace and so much of an advancement for our race it would be amazing but it will never happen. Back to the point though is that I believe that video games do not desensitize people to violence and his example of the decline empathy over time is inaccurate.

Your post was very well ill-informed, as to my view. Yes they cannot simulate the blood, or the smell, some would push that they should, if they could. The majority of my family is ex-military a few from world war 2, many from Vietnam, several from desert storm and many others (even siblings) from Iraq and Afghanistan. I, myself, have seen death on several occasions though I have been fortunate enough to not have to go to the battlefield. What do you think adding "Realism" means, it means to make more real. I have a grandfather that I saw panic when he saw my brother play call of duty due to PTS. So don't go on and on like you are the only one who knows what it's like. especially if you haven't witnessed death face to face. I know these characters are fictional, but that does not mean to the mind that it can't be tied to "as" real. I know combat simulations, yes those are more real than commercial video games, that does not negate the fact of commercial video games. So making insults as you did with little to no information, not even bother reading the thread makes you very ignorant and even more insulting.

In my personal experience, you could say that's a bit of an experiment, it works both ways. You can also sensitise yourself in the right environment and mental practices.

And is probably not always permanent in either case< unless it's REAL ill traumatic and twists you up and not just realistic. A bit like what some Vets or abused children experienced. The difference is media might give you nightmares but that's a whole other thing than getting a leg blown off, or the life long head [censored] if you were abused as a child. If you are very strict with mental discipline and never encounter day to day media blasting crap at you for a year or more, basically live somewhere quite remote and you can't read the language. Then transitioning back to being exposed to western media is actually quite shocking.

I was totally telling my Mom not to watch history channel about serial killers, thinking at the time feeding the mind negative thoughts is really bad for you. and even entertaining yourself with that sort of stuff is kind of mentally ill and will promote unhappiness.
Then after 6months.. it was back to normal. headshots FTW. Saying that, I was most happiest and content in my life when I lived off the grid and made my own entertainment. My Yoga was getting pretty decent too. So there was probably a lot of health, exercise, and diet reasons for that.

Doubt that is helpfull to the discussion.

It was not my intention to insult or offend you. I went out of my way to say that, and I was careful to use qualifiers such as "in my opinion," as well. But I have to stand by what I said. If you are becoming desensitized to real life violence or gore by a fantasy roleplaying game, you need help. Again, no offense intended. If you wish to take offense, that's up to you.

I'm not sure either. I know politics and religion aren't allowed but we haven't strayed there yet.

True, i don't want gore and six in elder scrolls either even though it could add more realism but it really isn't needed.

Then onwards! those godless democratic cretins are ruining modern society!

Interesting, so exposure to any video game leads to violent behavior:


EDIT: BTW, I'm still reading through it but I can't give much of a critique until I check some of the references.

I, like most of you, am not a psychologist so take this with a grain of salt but I would be willing to bet that you would find an increase of violent tendencies related with any increase of adrenaline, and that this idea that gaming desensitizes a result of the increased adrenaline from video games.

well that would be accurate (including soda) however that's no what this topic is about, it's not about violence, but the numbness to it.

I am quite aware of that, your argument is that violent video games desensitize the players of those games, which therefore numbs them to violence in the real world. I however do not believe that desensitization has occurred on any level besides that which is natural which is what I tried to explain in my earlier posts, and I do not believe that the evidence provided is sufficient in proving that there is a connection between video game and actual violence in the first place because of the arguments made by others in this thread alluding to the same point and my own personal hunch. If I am misunderstanding your argument feel free to repeat it for me, or don't seeing as...

If I understand you correctly then you do understand my point, if you also add that I think blowing someone's brains out and seeing brain matter fly, is just something that is very unnecessary in gaming aside from it being unhealthy. Really, deep cuts, splirts of blood is fine with me. Some people stated that fallout violence is just not right for TES and I completely agree, it was ok for fallout (which I loved though couldn't stand because of all the gore). I hear people screaming for that same kind of gore and even more, but I stand by the people who say it's not right for TES. That, overall, is actually my main point. I won't fight it in Fallout, and you can call me a hypocrite for it, but for TESV I will fight it, because it's just not right for it.

I don't agree. I know I'm not everybody but I can't see a real person hurt and I play a lot of fallout. I think it has to do with a lot of factors including personality, family life, etc so saying it's due to video games is not a justifiable cause and effect.

That article suggests something similar:

The first thing that made any sense in this thread, +1 sir/madam