In Oblivion the Daedric Prince Sheogorath has also taken on the identity of the 'hero of mundus' (I don't know a better term for it)... and then some.

Sheogorath has in this guise taken into posession the signature artifacts of the other Daedric princes.

While at the same time having been instrumental in the end of the septim dynasty, been present at the inarnation of Akatosh and even taken on the role of Shor/Pelinal (I'm a bit confused over this).

I know Sheogorath has often toyed with. mocked or deceived the other powers, but this seems like something more. Is it?

I haven't played SI yet (though I've bought it), but it's not Sheogorath taking over your identity -- it's you who takes over the role of Sheogorath, as far as I can see.

For the record, the Oblivion hero is called the Champion of Cyrodiil, or CoC for short.

Your question isn't really a bad one. A good number of users believe the idea you stated, that Sheog is just messing with the CoC. But other users (myself included) think you truly have become Sheogorath. For Arder Sul did the same thing.

Have you read about Arden Sul? Many inhabitants of the Isles will speak about him and claim him as either the Duke of Mania or Dementia; obviously their confused, right? He can't be Duke of both because the quest in SI shows you that. Lots of people in SI also consider him the mortal aspect of Sheog, and in a way they're right and wrong: Arden Sul WAS the Sheogorath. Let me explain:

The enantiomorph is a phenomenon in the Elder Scrolls that is an imitation of the interplay of Akatosh and Lorkhan, and by proxy Anu and Padomay, the first beings of existence. Anu and Padomay were literally opposites: stasis and change, good and bad, light and dark, + and -, etc, etc, and their interplay crated the Aurbis (see http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/monomyth.shtml. It will help alot). Akatosh and Lorkhan, following in the same vein as Anu and Padomay, were opposites as well: time and space. As we all know, their relationship ended with Aka having Lorkhan's heart ripped out.

Something lots of people have discovered on the lore forum is that Akatosh IS Lorkhan. Opposites logically need the other to exists, as if they're (part of) the same thing. This is why Anu and Padomay existed. This is why Aka and Lorkhan exist. This being said, Lorkhan basically killed himself, if Aka is Lorkhan.

Arden Sul, http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/sebooktheprophetardensul.shtml, has his heart destroyed by himself, either directly or indirectly. Remind you of anyone?

One last thing to think about, from http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/sebookravingsoffenroy.shtml:

Just You wait and see
Good Gods come and go, but
All Lords eventually fall
A God can wake up mortal.

edit: See all the capital letters? Take them all, put them together and what word do you get?
I'd talk about Talos too, but I've said way too much in this one post. And someone else will fix any BS I missed.

When there's nearing trouble,
And danger's a-coming,
The daM doG seeks a double,
While he himself starts a-running.

The double, a true hero's example,
Shall walk like him for a while,
And wear crown and mantle,
With star-lined beauty and style.

In the daM doG's place,
While the hero will face,
With astounding grace,
The assault of the Greys,
The daM doG will embrace,
A quite different - ... - opportunity
(no rhyme - a disgrace!)

Where was I? Ah yes, the daM doG was needed,
And therefore he speeded,
Like he's done before,
From now to then and then back to yore,
You must know, he's a banker, and just now he has shown us,
How to easily make a fat 21st century's bonus.

I meant the hero who recurrantly in TES gets a hold of the signature daedric artifacts. So not just the champion of cyrodiil, but also those who've also done the same.

I'm wondering what it means that Sheogorath is now that hero. I know one way of looking at it is just that the hero also happend to become Sheogorath. But it's not going to play out the same way.

Are the artifacts still going to escape and find the next hero? That doesn't look likely unless Sheogorath has plans which require that to happen.

And no other Daedric prince has taken on the role of a divine as far as I know.

Stop looking at it as if Sheog has become the hero. The hero has become Sheog; you're taking what really happened and flipping it and confusing yourself.

The artifacts like Chrysamere and whatnot are going to do what they've been doing.

Yes. It's like an actor taking on a classic role like Hamlet. The audience then sees Hamlet, colored by the actor's personal touches. But Hamlet was an empty suit and a script until that mortal assumed it; if the actor is really good, he's said to inhabit a role.

Just about the briefest summation of this stuff I've seen in a while. Change the tone in order to express that these are two competing (and in some cases, complimentary) theories, cut out a few irrelevant tangents (the Enantiomorph isn't all that necessary in order to understand this) and less like a mama bear talking to her cubs and I'd almost vote that we pin a version into the Lore FAQ. We get this question often enough.

Of course, these sorts of questions do sometimes bring out a discussion about things that adds to the lore and since it's about interpretation the question probably will never be settled. Therefore, the question will probably never be Lore faq material because it discusses possibilities and not known facts.

P.S. This is a round-a-bout way of saying that we may or may not need to update the FAQ in the near future. And sorry about the hijack.

Well I am confused. That's why I'm posting.

From how I've read things here and elsewhere, when you become Sheogorath.. Sheogorath does become you. It means the same thing in a sense.

You don't have your life before you were Sheogorath and only the champion of cyrodiil and banisher of Umaril (whatever that's called)... and then afterwards you became Sheogorath. It becomes so it was Sheogorath doing those things, because you are Sheogorath (I don't mean that the old Sheogorath has taken your identity or whatever).

So, anyway, I'm wondering what that could mean. Because a daedric prince also having been the *insert title here* hero (basically the PC running through all the Daedric quests etc) is a novel thing.

I expect in the official lore you did the daedric quests before become sheogorath. In my game so far I only did a few, and I'm completing the rest now and I've been wondering what my 'motivations' are. And I think even if you did everything prior to shivering isles there are still questions raised.


- Really I'm just wondering what my character is doing.

I imagine them as being a little confused... maybe deliberately so... they're carrying on playing the game....

For example, my character isn't 'sure' whether they are immortal, so they've become a vampire partly as insurance and partly because the idea of doing so for that reason is amusing.

Seeing as Aka and Shor were involved in the Enantiomorph, I thought it relevant.

So, this does have a couple of interesting implications. Either in SI the CoC broke this cycle of opposites, or simply perpetuated the Grey March. To my knowledge, you have created a big shift throughout the SI storyline, recreating the gatekeeper, the destruction of Passwell, the loss of the Duke/Duchess, and the destruction of those from the last greymarch, it seems likely that you are simply a part of this cycle.

Especially since you know have the staff of Sheogorath. Now, is it possible that all Daedra operate similar or is this just a matter of the SI?

No. Sheogorath is a special case.

Eslaf Erol does it in a more entertaining way, though.

Makes sense since his current status as the Madgod is a type of punishment. Is it ever elaborated as to how the other Daedra inflicted this curse/status?

I doubt you're just part of an endless cycle when you become Sheogorath. First, Haskill obviously doesn't lose his memory after this Greymarch. Wouldn't he remember if it all happened the same way in the past? Though to be honest, I can't recall it being said how long he's been with Sheogorath. Also, there's the matter of Dyus. He seems genuinely surprised that you succeed at getting the parts to make the staff, despite knowing everything that has and will happen, or at least so he says. If it is a cycle, he'd most likely know, wouldn't he?

edit: Dyus also says "The Staff may allow you to occupy the Throne of Madness, but understand that such a feat has never been attempted.". If he's right, which I'd assume he is, nothing like this has happened. If it does repeat, it must happen differently each time.

This is all guesses on my part to get a good brainstorm going.

Its a bit of a copout to say "well hes just crazy" but it is likely that you broke the cycle.

Although, I am wondering, is it possible Jygg is only free as long as another person is Sheo? So that means if you die, everything resets.

That would explain why you aren't immortal or the such.

I don't think the Daedra cursed him at all:

I had no idea the lore was so expansive.

Hopefully this will play a part in future games, especially with the events at the end of SI.

On a lesser note, are the whole of the Shivering Isles the island of Mania/Dementia that the player goes to, or is that just the largest/beginning island?

I'm probably just pulling things out of my ass but I don't think that the CoC actually becomes Sheogorath, if not more than just a placeholder waiting for his return. Sheogorath was created after the other Daedric princes decided to curse Jyggalag in fear of his power. But they both work completely separately as individuals just occupying the same body, albeit that Jyggalag only appears at the end of every era. Really, I think that the Daedric prices, though only if they join together, can create other Daedric princes, since Sheog and Jygg are both referred to as Daedric Princes and Sheog isn't just his other half. Sheogorath also wanted to give the CoC his staff, most likely knowing what would come of it, which was to give you the ability to rule, in turn breaking the cycle. Breaking the cycle/curse in my opinion was the severing of Jyggalag and Sheogorath. Jyggalag also says that he will return to the void of Oblivion to walk freely and doesn't decide to just continue his greymarch and take the Shivering Isles which originally was his realm to begin with as if Jyggalag actually acknowledges Sheogoraths ownership of the Shivering Isles, thus expecting his return in which the original Sheogorath will reclaim his throne.

Also the PC doesn't seem to be affected by this transfer of power either. Besides being able to change the weather and protect the realm after taking the throne there isn't any apparent affects to the PC's personality traits that one would assume would come with the position of becoming the Madgod.

So the CoC is only referred to as Sheogorath due to his position as the ruler of The Shivering Isles and ownership of the staff for the time being. But everything I said can probably be very easily disproved and probably will.


By the way, does Jyggalag refer to the CoC as Sheogorath after he is defeated by him? I can't remember.

Actually this is interesting. Assuming SI isn't just Sheo tricking the CoC, then wouldn't the CoC become like Vehk and Vivec? Vivec assumed godhood, and then he existed throughout time as a god, and also as a mortal. Wouldn't the same hold true for the CoC when he becomes Sheo? The CoC becomes Sheo for all time, before and after, while still having a mortal life. Or am I misunderstanding the Lessons of Vivec again?

No, the CoC is Sheogorath. This would pretty much be the same thing as saying Meridia and Malacath are fake. Either your a Deadric Prince or your not, there is no "You are but you aren't" thing with Daedric Princes, either the player is Sheogorath or he/she isn't and SI makes it pretty clear that you are Sheogorath which gives me this question.

Why can't you use your own blood for the blood of the Daedra quest or at least some of the Daedric artifacts from the SI?

Edit: The CoC may still live a human life though so you are probably correct on that but he/she isn't a faker.

Perhaps because this expansion was made after the main game :/

The events of SI happen after the Crisis, and you aren't born Sheog. I think the mainquest line for SI makes that obvious, as its all about becoming the next avatar/face/icon of Sheog.

i do hope we will see sheogorath again in tes V he was so awesome

Dagerdude, as I recently posted in another of Beth's forums, the Tribunal are not "false gods". When Vivec achieved apotheosis, he created a new timeline in which the god Vivec had existed before the mortal Vivec. The Tribunal are like the Greek gods in having humanoid shape, though when they had their full power they could change their appearance at will.

In mythology, even the gods could die -- Baldur, for example.