My attitude would be to cast invisibility or high level charn. But even then, as mentioned before, the very nature of this game is confrontational. Even if you personally do not resort to cool ultra-violence, that guard attacking a bandit or a wolf (or a poor tiny mudcrab) would somehow demand that you step in and try to ease the tensions.

Well, the game mechanics are the problem in this particular instance. The sigil keeper is scripted to confront you when you enter that area; there's no way to sneak up and pickpocket the key, so that dremora must be killed somehow. My character does not use physical violence or destruction magic, and, as I said, I'm testing the limits of what's possible without my character acquiring a "kill" stat.

I'm not interested in "fault." My character is trying to close an Oblivion gate, and this sigil keeper appears to be the person responsible for it being there. My character is not going to feel guilty because a daedric monstrosity who was chasing her with a mace fell down a hole. :wink_smile:

I think we are actually in agreement. This is only "roleplay" to the extent that my character has a peculiar state of mind about violence. The stat thing is a kind of "meta-game" that I'm playing, and it's specifically about testing whether it is possible to complete quests without killing. I find it an interesting challenge; I'm learning where the envelope is.

Yeah, we're in agreement. It sounds like an interesting challenge, but you're not exactly roleplaying your character as a pacifist, if I understood correctly?

If you're roleplaying a pacifist, the first rat in the sewers would've killed you.

But let's ignore that bit..

If you are indeed roleplaying a pacifist, what the hell would you be doing in Oblivion anyway? Picking flowers? Admiring the scenery? What twisted, sick-minded kind of pacifist is that?

Roleplaying a non-combatant character doesn't mean you can't touch anything ever in your life. Even the Brother Martin puts his fists up when under attack. Hand to Hand in a major skill in the "Monk" default class, for gods sake. That means something..

Well, the character is a female Breton, a former priestess of Mara, who uses no destruction magic and refuses to raise a hand against another living thing, even in self-defense. She is obviously caught up in events that challenge that.

I have no idea where this thing is going in the long run. It may be that I "let the character grow," which in her case will probably mean either choosing between her ambition to get into the Arcane University, and her need to remain passive.

I don't "believe in" this character yet, so I can't quite get into her head. I think there's potential for really interesting roleplay coming up, when she has to deal with the next guild recommendation. Maybe she'll have to come to terms with the reality of what "responsibility" is.

But a pacifistic character would be really interesting and challenging. Though I have to admit, pretty much impossible to an extent. But you can do the Thieves Guild quest line without killing anyone, and most missions involving you getting something from someone (by killing them, usually), you can most likely reverse-pickpocket to get them to equip another item and then pickpocket the one you want. With a high Sneak and/or Illusion, you can get past most enemies no problem.

But there is stuff you can do other than quests, that doesn't involve killing! Picking flowers and admiring the scenery and healing all the poor hurt creatures you come across (after blasting them with a Calm spell...) and talking to people and... being so boring you die. :brokencomputer:

But it would be interesting to have a character who, while looting caves and mines and forts etc, doesn't kill anyone but instead sneaks around under heavy Invisibility and takes everything without killing anyone. That's actually what I do with my characters, but not because they're pacifist - they're decidedly not. (To be honest it's mostly because zombies and goblins scare me, so I'd rather not be in combat with them. Humanoids die, but scary stuff is bypassed via high sneak. :rolleyes: )

On the first point, you're quite wrong. I was serious about finding out if it's possible. I ran this character through the entire tutorial, at normal difficulty. And I do mean "ran." It was a matter of grabbing the essential stuff, like the light armor from the skeleton, and the key to the first door, while being constantly attacked and repeatedly casting healing. Fortunately, enemies in the tutorial do not follow you through the loading doors between zones. I still managed to grab stuff from some of the chests on the way through. I think my character leveled light armor five or six times going through there, and at least a couple of levels of restoration.

The goblins are no problem to get by. They're slow on the uptake, and I don't think any of them actually hit my character as she ran through. After she did the Class thing with Baurus, she had a Calm spell, which she used in the final sewer.

On the second point... My other current characters include an antisocial Altmer battlemage, a Nord barbarian in fur armor with a claymore, and a dunmer swordsman who used to be a Temple Ordinator in Morrowind. This one is just...different... :wink_smile:

I don't see Martin as being awfully non-combatant. One can learn from the game dialog that he used to be a conjurer, and that he once possessed the Sanguine Rose. He doesn't just defend himself; if you use him as a "follower," he will aggressively attack anything that presents a threat.

Yes and I cleared the game with him. So now its time for something else.

That means he's not perfect, doesn't it? A perfect character is never-ending.. Alteast, that's my definition of a perfect character. One of his attributes should be longevity.

Anyway, I think you should go for a non-combatant character. Several people here have highlighted how interesting it is, and could be. It definitely has it's down time, but you'll find fun in other places.

To all those who haven't seen it before; here's http://livinginoblivion.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/to-sum-it-up/. A rather humorous blog about a man making an Oblivion character, written in the form of a diary. Check this for inspiration for a Non-Combat character.

This is the first page in a long series. It goes on. Enjoy!

"Believing in" the character, at least in this context, presents its own problems. That's why I'm watching this thread-- I'm still hoping to find some insights into playing a truly and totally pacifistic character, because I've got one and I haven't been able to do it. And the biggest problem, arguably, is that I got into his head immediately. I completely understand him.

I started him from a sewer exit save, so he didn't even have to deal with the tutorial. He made it as far as Weye, and that's it. He really REALLY wants to help out Aelwin with the Rumare Slaughterfish scales, but he can't kill the fish to get them. And it's not just as simple as that he can't kill them (and this is the thing that Troyatz seems to be addressing)-- he can't kill them, he can't lead them to their deaths, he can't even simply stand idly by while they die. He cannot, in any way, shape or form, be responsible for their deaths. No killing, no summoning, no frenzy, no nothing. And that's as far as he's made it.

To be honest, I really think it's going to be impossible to play a purely pacifistic character in the game. The closest one can get, as far as I can see, is what you've done with yours.

We'll see though-- I'll keep watching and pondering and maybe I'll come up with something.....

Well, to get things to stop attacking you you can always use a Calm Creature/Humanoid-spell. But as for getting the Slaughterfish scales without killing any... I don't think it's possible without giving them to yourself via console commands, because I don't think you can pickpocket animals for their scales.

I think you just need to concentrate on activities that really don't require any killing, or activities where you can work around the killing (ie. to get something from a person, you can pickpocket it from them instead of killing them).

Magic is a lot of fun in Oblivion, I recommend a spellcaster build.

You know. I wonder if you go into that room with 100% Chameleon on? Can you avoid that dialogue? I know in many other examples if you walk into a place where there's supposed to be an immediate conversation upon entering Chameleon can delay it. While 100% chameleon isn't fun you can create a short duration. Just enough to get in there, pick pocket the key, it wears off dialogue commences and you high tail it out of there? This is the best I can come up with.

Kind of hard to have 100% chameleon, since (A.) This is your first Oblivion Gate, and (B.) you haven't got access to enchanting yet. It's not even certain to me that this character type can ever get access to enchanting; she doesn't yet have all the recommendations.

On that, though... We got through the Skingrad recommendation, still with zero kills. The key was to weaken an enemy, then command him. Our commanded enemies lost each fight, all the way through. The final enemy was taken out by the guy we were there to rescue.

We now are at journeyman in Illusion, which means that we now have Invisibility and Paralyze. With those two tools, we hope to be able to get through the Leyawiin quest, which will involve somehow getting keys from two hostile people without killing them. :unsure:

Well, I mean, you don't have to do that OB gate right away. It was a theoretical question. I know in your play through it wasn't possible but I threw it out there for others to give it a shot.

Right, I was just answering in that context. I think that my remarks about "Paralyze" indicate the direction of my current thinking about dealing with people who have keys.

I would say what makes a character cool is the effort the creator puts into it. I make chracters for diffrent types of roleplay and I have made sevral, mostly for the guild quests. Each one of my chracters has a backstory and detailed history which I have written of and which I may include in sevral books I write. So, if you make a chracter, make one you will love with care and attention. ^_^

In that case get the Paralyze staff.

Sounds logical, if a non-violent character can get through the quest to procure such a thing.

For what it's worth, the Mages Guild Recommendations can all be done without racking up a "kill" in the stats. The Leyawiin quest is extremely difficult, because the bad guy doesn't have his key until after he is dead. Fortunately, if you are invisible, he can end up in a fight with a couple of monsters. The difficult part is getting him to talk to you first, which must happen, but it can be done.

Edit: I'm starting to believe in this character. We've done something together that I at first thought nearly impossible, and we've bonded. Her non-killing quest seemed like a stunt before, but it's becoming part of who she is. Her name is Paxelle, incidentally; she's a Breton.

As for advice on what to do? Well I just recently restarted the game with an Imperial Adventurer (custom: Blade, Heavy Armour, Illusion, Acrobatics, Light Armour, Marksman, Sneak. The Serpent and I tagged Personality and Agility) I made the class to be mostly meant for sneaking and sniping, but also an all-around class, that, after I finish the main quest, can be used for literally anything. It's actually a fun way to play the game. Say, that one day you feel like playing a mage, or rogue or warrior, all can be done with this basic class.
Back on track as to what you can do, well here are some things that could help make your game more fun:

-Walk everywhere, literally... You end up seeing more of the world, and meeting more people/monsters this way.

-Don't be afraid to get sidetracked. If for instance you are on your way to Chorrol for your quest and end up seeing a dungeon on the way, go ahead and loot it, your quest isn't going anywhere.

-Wander around and talk to everyone. Someone is bound to need help, or have some gossip worth hearing.

-Visit Inns and Taverns. They're a magnet to gossip, quests, tales and ale, of course.

-Join Guilds. Being the master of 4 or 5 Guilds/Factions can be rewarding, not to mention the quests are fun.

Those are a couple things I am doing/did on my second playthrough, over 15 hours and Martin is still hiding in Kvatch! :cheat:

The only thing you can do is NOT do the Aelin slaughterfish quest.