I havent read the entire thread so I dont see the big whoop... Unless you download an illegal copy and crack the game then steam is just wonderfull? .. I mean it helps you purchase the game, you can even have a digital copy. It saves all your game info in one place, even has a bunch of shortcuts to all your games...

I do use IE, because it gives me no problems.
And I don't like installing something on my computer just so that it gives me access to software I already purchased.
Windows is an operating system, not 3rd party software.

I know what windows is. What I'm saying is it must be hard only having Windows installed and not having any other software because it requires you to install a 3rd party software just so you can use it. As in DX9/10/11 is needed to run most games. That's 3rd party. Without it you couldn't run most games. Flash and Java and DivX codecs are all 3rd party software that helps internet pages work, but I bet you have no problem with them?? The drivers that come with your harddrive/CPU/GPU are all, you guessed it, 3rd party. So drop the nonsense and come up with a real reason.

Valve is also a developer. Steam service is an all-in-one-package service that other developers would like to use too. Its DRM solution removes all kinds of silly restrictions that other DRM methods force. Other DRMs, in addition of being 3rd party softwares, commonly behave like rootkits.

Steam doesn't require internet connection every time you want to play a game either!

Also a note on disc versions, they are just backup data and an activation ticket. I will back-up Skyrim, package it in awesome box and send it over to you. When you receive it, I will gift it to you through Steam. To acquire this gift, you have to use internet and Steam naturally. After accepting the gift, you can ignore the online installation and use the disc I sent. The data will be copied and when you run the game, Steam will check updates and create a unique executable just for you. This is when you no longer need an internet connection. You can put steam in offline mod from now on and play single player campaign.

Steam retail discs are back-up data discs, nothing more.

Little joys of the past might have been fun.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/11/13/article-1085336-02750816000005DC-924_468x314.jpg (wow queue)

And collecting game boxes can feel good.

But these shouldn't be a reason to pass new Elder Scrolls. I want to hear what problem exactly you experienced with Steam, if you don't mind. Also what is it so bad about it? It was a little problematic at first but it was improved. I consider it an excellent service now.

PS. If you don't mind online installation, I can just gift it to you.

PPS. You can ask me other technical problems you have with Steam, I would like to help you sort them out.

Years back, there was a precursor to Steam, some other company, I don't even remember the name of it now. I bought several games through them. Then the company folded. All those games are now lost and unplayable.

I bought Fallout 3 from Steam shortly after it came out, downloaded it and played it just fine. Then a year later, I went back to play it again and the Steam client would not recognize my username/password. Letters for support were responded to days late with no help other than to suggest reinstalling Steam. But first I had to uninstall it. Little did I realize that uninstalling Steam would also uninstall my Fallout 3 game including the vast amount of mod work I had been tweaking. All gone, thanks to Steam.

Recently I again wanted to go back and play Fallout 3. But I broke my game with some modding I installed and now need to restart afresh, I need to reinstall my game. But Steam won't let me reinstall my game. My license is now apparently 'NA', whatever that means. So my Fallout 3 game is now gone, defunct, kaput.

I do not want to use Steam!

He specifically says "3rd party enabling software I purchased".

DirectX is Microsoft, btw. Flash is a piece of [censored]. If you make websites and you use flash, you don't know how to make websites... period.


Valve isn't making Skyrim.


But does Steam need to run in the background? Do I have to repeat the same process if I reinstall and/or decide to migrate to a new computer?

I don't want to sound like an ass or anything.. I'm just pointing out differences... unless you can prove me wrong and then I'll be grateful.

All of that is down to you. All of that is your fault. Fair enough they could have been faster replying to you/more helpful. As for the mods being deleted, a little research would have uncovered the fact all your files in the Fallout 3 folder in Steam get deleted. And Steam will let you reinstal your game. Just remove local files and then install it again. It works for me so if it doesn't work for you there's something wrong on your end. Browse their forums and I'm sure most of your problems will be answered.



EDIT:

@gixG17

I am aware DriectX is Microsoft, but it's still a bit of software you need to install to make the game work. What about java and divX?? Did you ignore them because you don't have a counter argument?? And drivers for your graphics card, that's also needed to make something you bought work.

Steps that should be taken:

1) Install game.
2) Play game.

Now with Steam:

1) Install game. (Probably won't be able to install anywhere but your Steam folder.)
2) Install Steam.
3) Wait for Steam to download updates (steps 3-8 require internet connection.)
4) Create Steam account.
5) Wait for Steam to populate your games list.
6) Navigate slow and cumbersome menus that don't load instantly.
7) Activate game on Steam.
8) Wait for Steam to check for updates to the game.
9) Play game.

God forbid you try to use mods.

I cannot belive steam isnt workable for everyone....not until I see valid proof.....
not all of my games work by steam, but the ones that do, work just fine....the problems games have....had nothing to do with steam.
None of my friends say steam is bad.
steam just simply IS

@accaris

Steps that should be taken:

1) Insert disc into disc drive
2) Wait for autoplay/navigate to te DVD drive in My Computer
3) Install game
4) Manually search the internet for updates.
5) Download those updates.
6) Install said updates
7) Play game.

Now with Steam:

1) Install game. (Probably won't be able to install anywhere but your Steam folder.)
2) Install Steam (this is only needed once because you might get more than one game).
3) Wait for Steam to download updates.
4) Create Steam account (again only once). No need ot wait to populate your games list seeing as you only have one and it doesn't take long at all.
5) Play game.

Mods are exactly the same with Steam/without Steam.

You can spin it both ways bro.

If it was a regular game on a regular CD, I would simply reinstall. There would be no issue. Sure, if I knew more and spent many hours learning more, and then maybe yet more hours reading on the forums to better understand Steam, maybe some of these problems could be avoided. Right now I could perhaps spend several hours reading yet more forums and writing to tech support trying to find out why I cannot reinstall Fallout3. It is 'my fault' that I am not willing to put up with the hours upon hours of frustration and tedium of all that.

If it was a normal game, I would simply reinstall it and have none of that headache to worry about. That is the point that is lost on you.


And hope and pray you don't ever have account problems like I have had, more than once with Steam.

This topic is so new and original.


And yes, I'll still buy it.

Well if you took a little time to research Steam then you would find that it's not too hard to reinstall, and that it has countless benefits besides. Fair enough you've had trouble with Steam, but it's not Steams fault you have. Give it a little leeway and I guarantee you'll grow to love it.

I agree with this, steam is so much easier than searching for updates.

And on a completely diffrent note, am I the only one that has never had a problem with Steam?

That's true. What I wanted to point was, Valve deserves some respect as a game developer. Their service was made for PC gamers with game developers in mind.


Yes and yes. Steam running in background is ignorable, all extra features can be disabled. It might as well be a hidden service or rootkit but I'm glad it is a transparent software. Online or disc installation aren't that different from each other. I can debate online being easier. Edit: And you don't have to migrate. You can install as many computers as you want.


I don't think that. Technical problems can happen to all of us. Steam is good in ideal situations. I would like to help if you can be more specific about your concerns.

I would like Steam to be an option for the retail copy, but not a requirement.

Steam = a lot of good games at 20-30 bucks each (last one, Portal 2 (60 bucks, 2 copies half-paid) pre-purchase sale at -10% (-20%, as i've bought the two-pack to play coop with a friend).

So, I sincerely don't understand all that "Steam-hate". DRM? You're going to have it, Steam or not, in most games. Internet required to play? There's an offline mode. Etc.

Nope, I've never had a problem with steam...EVER.

It's still 1st party software that could/should be part of any Windows installation. To be honest, I ignored Java and DivX because I thought pointing out the fact that DirectX is Microsoft was enough to counter your argument. Isn't Java open source? And we have alternatives to DivX... like XviD which is basically open source DviX.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but I don't think it's got any relation to this discussion. I shouldn't HAVE to use 3rd party software... especially when all Steam does (in this case) is "allow" me to play the game. It doesn't ADD anything to it, it's not Speedtree or Havok (3rd party that I don't have to deal with, since the game does). It's just THERE... but you HAVE to have it. Why?

As for drivers, still 1st party... whenever you have an nVidia card or ATI or whatever.

Guys, just because some of us despise Steam, doesn't mean you guys can't enjoy it. Yes, I really hate Steam but to go on and on about it to explain how bad it is would require a thread of it's own. It's got nothing to do with DRM or Internet.

If the retail disk version requires a mandatory Steam account then I won't be buying it either.

Steam does something that less savy computer users can not do and that is automatic updates. Sure it could be built into the game and it should be instead of relying on some third party to handle that.

I would rather not have Steam and all the advertisments that come with that.

I bought Civ V in stores, got home and realized all it did was install from steam. I still haven't bought New Vegas even though I enjoyed FO3.

If Skyrim is Steamworks only, I'll be waiting on that one too.

If you want to use a website that utilises Java, then you HAVE to have Java. It doesn't ADD anything to it, it's just THERE. It just "allows" you to go on said website.
If you want to watch a video in Xvid or DivX, you HAVE to have either DivX or Xvid installed. It doesn't ADD anything to it, it's just THERE. It just "allows" you to watch said video.
If you want to use Wrye Bash for Oblivion you HAVE to have Python installed. It doesn't ADD anything to it, it's just THERE. It just "allows" you to use Wrye Bash.

If you buy a blu-ray player for your PC, you HAVE to have some software installed to watch the blu-rays. Most come bundled with one, but that's not the point.

If you but a game with any form of DRM, then you HAVE to use that software.
I presume you've bought games with DRM before?? Oblivion and Morrowind and Fallout 3 being prime examples, seeing as this is the BGS forums.

The point I'm making is that a lot of other things need some other software in order to run. And Steam does a lot of things besides just "allowing" you to play the game.

You call it selfish, and that may be so.

But have you read what others wrote? Refusing to buy the PC version, or using a similar scare tactic to persuade Bethesda to alter their plans IF Steam is currently part of their strategy. Most have said they would purchase console versions instead (those that would normally buy on PC), therefore missing out on mods. Their loss really. But some have outright refused to buy at all. If Bethesda chooses to have Steam as a requirement for DRM, so be it. They're not trying to penalize people, they're just trying to protect their work.

I'm all for not absolutely requiring Steam, but if that means requiring to have the game disc in the drive just to play, that is going to inconvinence people. Unless they decide to release a patch so people can safely put the disc away somewhere.

This has been discussed over and over, and the only thing that gets accomplished is the rehashing of the same information over and over. Why don't we just wait to see what Bethesda's plans are before people start losing sleep over this?