[Love iz not]

Steam requirement makes it an no sale for me, compared to all the other DRM methods I've encountered Steam has been the biggest headache whenever I have tried using it. Haven't had the misfortune to experience Ubisoft's always on setup as anything that included that I didn't get. Steam is just one shakey step away from that with it's unreliable offline mode being the bone thrown to consumers, neither of those setups provide me with any advantage or benefit, just hassle. I'm capable of looking after discs and have the ability to search for updates myself, not quite lazy enough yet to need a third party program to do those things and seriously, what's the big deal over swapping a disc? You're not being prevented from playing the game because of that, compared to Steam's oh so familiar "unable to connect" messages.

@Hoblak, I agree totally with you on consumer rights. Ignorantly and blindly purchasing any goods just marks people out as idiots, usually the ones that holler the loudest when what they bought doesn't do what they want it to.

[Lucky Girl]

I prefer steam for games... For me? THE BEST plataform.

[Angelina Mayo]

If it's only available on Steam, I will not buy it. Full stop.

[Laura Ellaby]

I would be very angry, but yes. I would do anything to own this game

[Anne marie]

I would prefer an option, where as the retail version is non steam.

But if your a TRUE TES fan, you will buy it regardless.

[Laura]

I like having discs myself, but Steam is way more convenient. Just install it and no need to look for discs or anything. Then log into your steam account and install on other computer and play from your last save on it XD

[Rex Help]

Skyrim won't need Steam because it's not a Valve game. You may be able to BUY it on Steam at one point, you could buy the last 2 there.

Fallout New Vegas isn't a Valve game. But you do need Steam.

[Laura Simmonds]

If Skyrim requires Steam I will be thankful I got it on xbox.

[Mrs Pooh]

I got half life 2 from retail, and it required registration through steam, which seemed sketch to me at the time. It turned out for the best, because with that game you could still use the discs just fine, and that was great because at the time I had dial up so using the internet to confirm every time I played would have been awful. I didn't care too much for steam until about two months ago when my brother just happened to remember my username and I reconnected. It was really cool to look back at some of the games that I had played 5 years ago and had completely lost. So I'm down with it, on the other hand I'll be getting for the xbox anyway because my laptop is for work, not play.

[james tait]

no. I don't even have a choice. i'll soon have the the computer to run it but I won't have the money for internet.

[Mark]

No gripes with steam. I like it. As long as I can buy it retail to get the manual and other collectors edition goodies.

[RAww DInsaww]

Being an "old guy" I have some pretty strong feelings about what are my "consumer rights" - as strong as they are old. It's not about not following tech, it's about not wanting to weave (?) all my rights as a consumer. DMCA and similar acts (I'd even say most copyright related acts and slip in bills) is a disaster (imo) - but few seems to care - most even endorse it

Will I buy? Time will show. Maybe it's time to call it a day and toss in the towel, wrt gaming - which used to be fun.

You don't have to worry about consumer rights.

You buy the game retail, install it, log on ONCE with steam and activate it, go to offline mode (works perfectly fine since 3 to 4 years) and play the game offline as long as you wish.
See it as copy protection methode where you have to go online once.
If one day Steam doesn't exist anymore they said they will release a Steam emulator patch so all games are still playable.
You own all the games and have the retail versions sitting in your shelf smiling at you.

What Steam gives you additionally is, that it updates your games if you're online, they built in an screenshot manager a short time ago and, very useful IMO: You can access the internet browser (e.g. for the elderscrolls forums) ingame!
Of course there is also a clock that tells you how late it is. Just press two buttons and you can access all those features.
The big disadvantage is IMO, that if you alter game files like the skyrim.exe, Steam will repair it because it thinks something happens and your game is broken. (Of course mods do work without a problem).

Try it and see if you like it. Don't judge about Steam because of the people writing here or elsewhere.
Steam was difficult at the beginning. It really was. The offline mode was buggy, as well as many features. But now, after 8 years, it works perfectly fine!


EDIT: just typos

[Kira! :)))]

For me, Steam is for Valve games and Valve games alone, I'd prefer to have the option of keeping it that way, "steam only" release is something I HIGHLY doubt they would do, not everyone uses steam and we've often seen that Steam released games have frequently needed unique patches to fix problems not present in the regular versions of the game.

So I cannot fathom how "steam only" would ever be an efficient marketing move.


Besides, I like boxart and the special things with collectors editions etc.

[Guinevere Wood]

You don't have to worry about consumer rights.

You buy the game retail, install it, log on ONCE with steam and activate it, go to offline mode (works perfectly fine since 3 to 4 years) and play the game offline as long as you wish.
See it as copy protection methode where you have to go online once.
If one day Steam doesn't exist anymore they said they will release a Steam emulator patch so all games are still playable.
You own all the games and have the retail versions sitting in your shelf smiling at you.

Yeah the boxes smile at me, too bad steam don`t know the box is sitting there so the [censored]in game will launch.

What Steam gives you additionally is, that it updates your games if you're online, they built in an screenshot manager a short time ago and, very useful IMO: You can access the internet browser (e.g. for the elderscrolls forums) ingame!
Of course there is also a clock that tells you how late it is. Just press two buttons and you can access all those features.
The big disadvantage is IMO, that if you alter game files like the skyrim.exe, Steam will repair it because it thinks something happens and your game is broken. (Of course mods do work without a problem).

What it gives you is a headache. Validation verified but cannot connect or handle requests. Or other various errors. I didn`t spend over 50 dollars to deal with this [censored]. I wanna load the cd , hit the launcher and never have to worry about it.

Try it and see if you like it. Don't judge about Steam because of the people writing here or elsewhere.
Steam was difficult at the beginning. It really was. The offline mode was buggy, as well as many features. But now, after 8 years, it works perfectly fine!

You obviously haven`t had any real problems if you are actually defending this [censored] program. How else is the guy going to know to stay the [censored] away from games that require this uneeded crap to run. I went for long periods unable to play NV because of buzy servers? Servers? For NV? You are kidding right? I am not talking hours of not being able to play, I am talking days to weeks. So I found something else to play so I`ll say it again, I bought black opps the day it was realeased, played it for 4 days. I have 9 hours logged onto the game so steam tells me. FOUR days after it was released was the last time I played it because it won`t [censored]in launch no matter what I do! It validates and confirms and won`t connect. WTF do I need to connect for if it`s single player? Explain that to me so I don`t feel as bad for getting screwed. So no, if the retail version of the game so much as needs to fart in steams face to activate or play , they just lost a sale.


EDIT: just typos

[stevie critchley]

Already have preordered. Don't really care.
If it's the case I'll just try to ignore it's there.

PS. made a rhyme

[Jessie Butterfield]

I'd prefer it to be on Steam (though not exclusively). My Steam games library grows ever larger (62 currently, most of them bought from sales), I've not found any reason to hate Steam yet.

On conceptual level i like Stardock's http://www.impulsedriven.com/ more as a DD platform, but the fact that most games are only availbale to americans limits it's usability for me :shrug:

[Jesus Duran]

I would most definitely not buy Skyrim at all (on any platform) if the PC version required Steam.

[danni Marchant]

I am fine with it being available for purchase on Steam. However, if it requires Steam to play then Oblivion will probably be the last Elder Scrolls game I ever play (which is an unfortunate game to go out on), and Fallout 3 will probably be the last Bethesda game I ever play.

Steam is a failure as an anti-piracy device, and 100% of the perceived benefits to the consumer are predicated on the assumption that Valve will always exist and will always operate Steam and Steam servers. Furthermore, nothing in the terms and conditions offers us any guarantees with regard to the ongoing support of our purchased licenses, meaning, Valve can decide to stop operation of Steam at any time and you will lose access to everything you have purchased via Steam... forever.

[Inol Wakhid]

I defintely won't buy it for PC if it requires steam in order to play. I don't believe in Online DRM's when you already have to pay 50-60 dollars for a game, and by having that type of DRM you don't own the game, your just along for the ride and are at the mercy of the Publisher/Developer, kinda like Fallout New Vegas. I would get that game for PC if it didn't require steam but it does so I'm not getting it.

Publishers and Devs think that DRM's like Steam are good but they aren't and will one day kill the PC gaming market outside of MMO's because people will get tired of being forced to use Steam or other DRM's and also having to deal with a bad EULA. Now Beth certainly isn't EA or Obsidian but I still worry because of Softworks, I'm always skeptical of those guys because they were in charge of Bug Testing for New Vegas and they probably made the decision to go ahead with release of New Vegas even though the game was badly bugged. I'm not saying that I hate Gstaff and the rest of his group because I like Softworks I just have concerns about their past history with New Vegas.

[Jonathan Braz]

@Lord Banewrath Sunblade
I never had the problems you described. And I can totally understand why you're upset.
Try offline mode (Steam -> Go offline). Then you need no internet to play offline games.

The game is definately yours. If the steam servers doesn't exist anymore you still own the games! (If you bought it retail or via steam)
Just patch the .exe file or load a steam emulator (that will be officially available if the servers shut down) and everythings fine.

If you can't start because the servers are not available just click "Offline Mode" in the login screen.
I never experienced problems with that, and my internet connection was quite aweful a few years ago.

If the game won't start anymore, and neither of the solutions above works, then rightclick the game->properties->local files->'verify integrity of game cache' and steam should repair the game.

As I said, I've been using Steam since HL2 and I haven't experienced problems since 6 years or so.

Don't get me wrong, I would also prefere no DRM like in Oblivion, but time changes and so do DRMs.
Online activation is common for current games and will be added to future games as well, I'm sure.

[C.L.U.T.C.H]

The game is definately yours. If the steam servers doesn't exist anymore you still own the games! (If you bought it retail or via steam)
Just patch the .exe file or load a steam emulator (that will be officially available if the servers shut down) and everythings fine.

If you can't start because the servers are not available just click "Offline Mode" in the login screen.
I never experienced problems with that, and my internet connection was quite aweful a few years ago.

If the game won't start anymore, and neither of the solutions above works, then rightclick the game->properties->local files->'verify integrity of game cache' and steam should repair the game.

Where exactly in the Steam EULA (http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/) does it state that an emulator "will be officially available if the [Steam] servers shut down"? I've read the EULA, and I only see language like the following:

2.A. License Terms. You understand that neither this Agreement nor the terms associated with a particular Subscription entitles you to future updates, new versions or other enhancements of the Software associated with a particular Subscription although Valve may choose to provide such updates, etc. in its sole discretion.

9.C. NO GUARANTEES. VALVE DOES NOT GUARANTEE CONTINUOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, YOUR ACCOUNT AND/OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS(S).

13. TERM AND TERMINATION. Either you or Valve has the right to terminate or cancel your Account or a particular Subscription at any time. You understand and agree that the cancellation of your Account or a particular Subscription is your sole right and remedy with respect to any dispute with Valve.

In plain English, Steam/Valve is saying that you don't have any rights as a consumer to expect any ongoing service from them at all. Period. Beyond that, it says that they can discontinue your subscription "at any time." Considering their stated position, it would be rather naive to think that Valve would be much concerned with your rights as a consumer while facing bankruptcy, merger, collapse, etc. Also, I imagine that they couldn't just start unlocking the DRM without some explicit agreement with the owners of the game code (i.e., developers/publishers like Bethesda). Thus, the safest assumption is that, in the event of Steam's collapse, your game account will disappear, too. The Steam EULA all but confirms this and gives Valve all kinds of options in regard to closing accounts, not updating the Steam client, etc.

[Alba Casas]

Where exactly in the Steam EULA (http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/) does it state that an emulator "will be officially available if the [Steam] servers shut down"? I've read the EULA, and I only see language like the following:



In plain English, Steam/Valve is saying that you don't have any rights as a consumer to expect any ongoing service from them at all. Period. Beyond that, it says that they can discontinue your subscription "at any time." Considering their stated position, it would be rather naive to think that Valve would be much concerned with your rights as a consumer while facing bankruptcy, merger, collapse, etc. Also, I imagine that they couldn't just start unlocking the DRM without some explicit agreement with the owners of the game code (i.e., developers/publishers like Bethesda). Thus, the safest assumption is that, in the event of Steam's collapse, your game account will disappear, too. The Steam EULA all but confirms this and gives Valve all kinds of options in regard to closing accounts, not updating the Steam client, etc.

Its not in their EULA, its officially stated by employees.
I searched a bit for this statement, but the only thing I found in a quick search was this thread in the official steam forums.
You can search for older threads about this in their forums if you want; for me the statement of an official moderator is enough at the moment.
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1378587


EDIT: Steam in offline mode doesn't need any server authentification. The only thing that has to be added is that games can be installed in offline mode. And thats a boolean variable I guess.

[Benito Martinez]

The Skyrim forums are weird. So many Steam haters. :wacko:

I made a http://www.giantbomb.com/steam/92-718/do-you-refuse-to-buy-games-that-require-steam/35-486157/ on Giant Bomb eight days ago and 528 people has voted.

Do you refuse to buy games that require Steam?
-Yes 2.7%
-No 94.3%
-I don't play PC games 3.0%

I doubt Bethesda will lose many sales by going Steam only for Skyrim.

[Nicholas C]

Its not in their EULA, its officially stated by employees.
I searched a bit for this statement, but the only thing I found in a quick search was this thread in the official steam forums.
You can search for older threads about this in their forums if you want; for me the statement of an official moderator is enough at the moment.
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1378587

You do know that the quote in that thread is by a "volunteer moderator" who probably isn't even a Valve/Steam employee and thus cannot make any kind of "official" statement about Valve's business practices or future. In any event, Steam's official stance is the EULA itself, not what a random "volunteer moderator" says in an archived (not stickied) thread.

EDIT: Steam in offline mode doesn't need any server authentification. The only thing that has to be added is that games can be installed in offline mode. And thats a boolean variable I guess.

Assuming you play the game on the same computer without ever reinstalling Windows or anything. If you attempt to play the game on any other computer or after a Windows reinstall, you won't be able to play without an online authentication.

[kristy dunn]

I don't like Steam. I've loaded it for Fallout New Vegas, and had some problems with customer support.

That said I would still buy Skyrim if it required Steam for activation and updates, like New Vegas.

If it required you to have an Internet connection each time you play, well that might be one thing that would cause me to not buy Skyrim. If it requires Steam for activation and updates (as I'm guessing it will) I suppose I'd still buy it.

But I'd prefer the Oblivion or Morrowind or Fallout 3 DRM, where you just need the disk. And with Fallout 3 you don't even need the disk with proper activation. I wish it could be like that.