[Melung Chan]

• There were more games purchased digitally than retail last year.
  
• My only newspaper subscription is digital, I don't get anything delivered to my house.
  
• I haven't rented a DVD in more than a year, I always rent movies online. Same goes for my friends.
  
• No one buys CDs anymore, everyone buys them digitally through iTunes or some other music service.
  
• More ebooks are sold than paper books on Amazon.

You might want to reconsider your statement ^

And I'm assuming there is a website to back up those stats you listed?

I'll give you the one about CD's, even though you are incorrect in the fact that NO ONE buys CD's. Maye the majority do not, but there are some who still do.

I would have to say that the majority of people want a physical copy of what they purchase. While digital media is rising, it hasn't overtaken the physical medium just yet.

By the way, I do not have stats to back up my claims.... any more than you have stats to back up yours.

It's an opinion, nothing more.

[Hella Beast]

Steam is fine with me.

I'll buy the physical game, like I did with FNV, and gladly activate and play it through Steam. Steam gave me exactly zero problems with FNV, with mods and FOSE and other such stuff working without a problem.

The only inconvenience was that the game dir was buried deep within the /steamapps section, where with Obliv and F3 I had the game dir right on C/ for easy access.

I have a dozen or so Steam games, and have used Steam for years - I initially resented it during beta and early in its launch, but I got over it - letting them work the initial kinks out worked to my favour, no doubt.

For people saying they will not play the game if it requires Steam, the saying 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' comes to mind.

[James Baldwin]

• There were more games purchased digitally than retail last year.
  
• My only newspaper subscription is digital, I don't get anything delivered to my house.
  
• I haven't rented a DVD in more than a year, I always rent movies online. Same goes for my friends.
  
• No one buys CDs anymore, everyone buys them digitally through iTunes or some other music service.
  
• More ebooks are sold than paper books on Amazon.

You might want to reconsider your statement ^

So what? Who cares what the statistics say? I still buy CDs and will never use Itunes with their crappy quality, I rip my CDs in FLAC format with bitrates over 1000kbps, who needs Itunes 200-something bitrate. Or I listen to my CDs on my Stereo. I still have a normal newspaper and so do millions of people.

[Liii BLATES]

So what? Who cares what the statistics say? I still buy CDs and will never use Itunes with their crappy quality, I rip my CDs in FLAC format with bitrates over 1000kbps, who needs Itunes 200-something bitrate. Or I listen to my CDs on my Stereo. I still have a normal newspaper and so do millions of people.

Same here.

I buy CDs.
I buy magazines and newspapers. The tangible ones.
But

I might get Skyrim via digital distribution, *IF*, and that's a big if, the price is considerably lower. I see no reason other than tactics for it not to be. No printing,no manufacturing,no packaging,no shipping. That must ammount to something.

[Solina971]

When FO3 came out as a GFWL title, I cringed. When I had to actually deal with GFWL, I cussed. I had tried Steam back in the HL2 days and it svcked back then. Did not use Steam after that. So, my view of on-line gaming services is dim at best.

So, when I heard the New Vegas was going to require Steam, I was at first concerned, as my experiences warranted. However I downloaded the new Steam Client before NV came out and set up an account. My retail copy arrived, I installed the game, activated it, and put the disk away forever. Since then, Steam has been a non issue for me. I am not a fan of Steam and I do not sing it's praises, however as a Digital Distribution/Game Activation Platform, it is better than most any other alternative.

So, Steam will probably be required, the rollout with New Vegas went rather well, as compared to GFWL. There were a few problems in the first couple of days related to the Steam Cloud save back ups, but those got ironed out pretty fast. All in all, the fact that this game will probably be on Steam is not an issue for me, anymore.

[Catherine N]

I was neutral towards Steam at first, then I Emprire: Total War came out and I had to install it (even though I bought a boxed copy). Lo and behold I found it amazing. Once it's installed, you can still bookmark and pin games to the dock like usual and completely forget about it even being installed. It's a surprisingly unobtrusive program that really only lets you know it's there when it pops up an ad when you close a game. I hated these ads at first but now I like them as their deals are fantastic.

All in all, I could take or leave steam, but it is a useful tool.

[Emily Graham]

It's a surprisingly unobtrusive program that really only lets you know it's there when it pops up an ad when you close a game. I hated these ads at first but now I like them as their deals are fantastic.

You can disable them in the options anyway.

[Rachell Katherine]

Valve has a plan in case Steam goes down permanently, they will remove the steam-lock from your games so you can play them without Steam.

CDs are a thing of the past

I've always found this an interesting point. How exactly do you download the game if the servers are down? Will Valve send out the install CD/DVDs for all their users?

I agree with the second line, DVDs(And likely blu-rays soon enough) are where it's at.

[Stacyia]

I still don't like being forced to use something just to be able to play my product and what happens if Steam is down. I'm not wasting 50-60 dollars if Steam is required in order to play. If people want to use it that's fine but keep it optional for those who just want to install it to the computer and play.

[Penny Courture]

I've always found this an interesting point. How exactly do you download the game if the servers are down? Will Valve send out the install CD/DVDs for all their users?

I agree with the second line, DVDs(And likely blu-rays soon enough) are where it's at.

I also like how people keep saying that Valve has a plan for this eventuality... This "plan" has only been cited once so far, and that was in the opinion of a moderator (i.e. Not an actual employee) on the Steam forums.

I sincerely doubt that Valve has any actual plans (or even intentions) for what they will do when they cease to operate Steam. The most likely scenario is that some company will buy the rights to the Steam servers and will offer to sell you monthly access to your purchased licenses.

[liz barnes]

I've always found this an interesting point. How exactly do you download the game if the servers are down? Will Valve send out the install CD/DVDs for all their users?

I agree with the second line, DVDs(And likely blu-rays soon enough) are where it's at.

There is a 'backup' function in Steam you know.

[Stephy Beck]

You can disable them in the options anyway.

Ah! Then all my problems are gone!

[meghan lock]

OPINION:

All I want to do is buy my game, put the disk in, install and play and I want to do it right away, without further hassle (irritating inconvenience)

It is that simple.

But I could not do that back when I bought HL². That was years ago, and I do not remember the details. However, I do remember there were unexpected hurdles and additional hassle involved that I had never experienced previously with another PC game. And, it does seem like then, I had to be on line, to start my game.

Further, I could not just simply play my game when I bought FONV. I had so much trouble with installation that I had to return the game. I highly suspect something that somehow involved the Steam process.

It should be noted, that I did NOT have similar problems with Arena, Daggerfall, Redguard, Battlespire, Morrowind, Oblivion, or FO3.

That being said, for some, I guess the Steam thing works, but, it has alway been additional headache to me, for whatever reason.

If given a choice, I would say NO to steam. I don't "hate" it, but I don't like it.

However, if Skyrim requires Steam, and I hope not, I suppose I will be forced to use it, but not by choice.

That being said, I think I will consider not posting in future"Steam" threads for a while. Somehow the topic disturbs me.

I just want to play my game with no addition hassle, without added on irritating inconvenience.


EDIT: Fix some typos

[barbara belmonte]

OPINION:

All I want to do is buy my game, put the disk in, install and play and I want to do it right away, without further hassle (irritating inconvenience)

It is that simple.

But I could not do that back when I bought HL². That was years ago, and I do not remember the details. However, I do remember there were unexpected hurdles and additional hassle involved that I had never experienced peviously with another PC game. And, it does seem like then, I had to be on line, to start my game.

Further I could not just simply play my game when I bought FONV. I had so much trouble with installation that I had to return the game. I highly suspect something that somehow involved the Steam process.

It should be noted, that I did NOT have similar problems with Arena, Daggerfall, Redguard, Battlespire, Morrowind, Oblivion, or FO3.

That being said, for some, I guess the Steam thing works, but, it has alway been additional headache to me, for whatever reason.

If given a choice, I would say NO to steam. I don't "hate" it, but I don't like it.

However, if Skyrim requires steam, and I hope not, I suppose I will be forced to use it, but not by choice.

That being said, I think I will consider not posting in future"Steam" threads for a while. Somehow the topic disturbs me.

I just want to play my game with no addition hassle, without added on irritating inconvenience.

mostly this but I won't indulge steam (again) & simply not get the game

I however will continue posting in future "Steam" threads in the hope that beth realizes there is a viable market outside of the Steam community on the PC

[Etta Hargrave]

I also like how people keep saying that Valve has a plan for this eventuality... This "plan" has only been cited once so far, and that was in the opinion of a moderator (i.e. Not an actual employee) on the Steam forums.

I sincerely doubt that Valve has any actual plans (or even intentions) for what they will do when they cease to operate Steam. The most likely scenario is that some company will buy the rights to the Steam servers and will offer to sell you monthly access to your purchased licenses.

Either that or another company will purchase it and systematically sell off it's assets for profit. Either way this "plan" will probably never see the light of day, leaving all of it's users high and dry.

[Blessed DIVA]

If it requires Steam, I won't buy it. Maybe the GOTY edition will be Steam-free and I'll get that in a couple of years.
I just don't like to be forced into interacting with something I don't need or have use for,a nd could potentially could cost me money.

As a general comment: it really surprises me to see the blind faith some folks have in companies nowadays, especially with the access and availability to information the way we have it today, where it is easy to find all sorts of info about bad corporate practices/outcomes. This blind trust in Valve that they will release some sort of key to unlock games in case something happens... I mean, people have lost millions of dlls, their homes, livelihoods, even their lives, even when companies stated they'll take care of them in case of disaster, and you are expecting a company to give a damn about your $200 worth of games should something happen to it?

[Tai Scott]

As I always say in these threads, I'm probably going to buy the steam version, but I don't see any reason the game would need to use steam.

(I know they've had it as a requirement for FO:NV but I don't think that was Bethesdas choice, was it?)

[Darlene DIllow]

Any of you who say you "will not by if it requires steam" is lying.
You will buy whatever way it comes out and you know it.
I highly doubt that if you buy a physical copy, that requires Steam activation, Valve profits.
Valve only profits of games downloaded through Steam, which they have every right to because they pay for servers and stuff.

[Quick Draw]

Any of you who say you "will not by if it requires steam" is lying.
You will buy whatever way it comes out and you know it.
I highly doubt that if you buy a physical copy, that requires Steam activation, Valve profits.
Valve only profits of games downloaded through Steam, which they have every right to because they pay for servers and stuff.

Their threats are hollow!

They'll tell us they won't buy it till their blue in the mouth, but when it comes release day 11-11-11 they'll be in line to get their copy!

[JR Cash]

Any of you who say you "will not by if it requires steam" is lying.
You will buy whatever way it comes out and you know it.
I highly doubt that if you buy a physical copy, that requires Steam activation, Valve profits.
Valve only profits of games downloaded through Steam, which they have every right to because they pay for servers and stuff.

.. riiiiiiight, because you are privy to Valve's finances and business model..

And I am not lying. I am not going to buy it if it requires Steam, simple as that.

[Roisan Sweeney]

I don't know about you guys but I am really worried about the PC version of Skyrim. If it turns out anything like Crysis 2, it will not support DirectX 11 or 10 making newer GPUs worthless, the GUI and graphics options will be dumbed-down like it is on consoles, and it will not run in 64-bit. If the industry continues down this Wii-inspired cater to the casual gamers only path, I will just stop playing games all together.

[Ludivine Dupuy]

I sincerely doubt that Valve has any actual plans (or even intentions) for what they will do when they cease to operate Steam. The most likely scenario is that some company will buy the rights to the Steam servers and will offer to sell you monthly access to your purchased licenses.

Sadly I can all too easily see this happening. Valve getting bought out and asset stripped or their own board of directors seeing the potential profit. Either way some short-sighted accountants decide that 30 million active users locked in to their games are ripe to be milked for a subscription - at first making the transition as painless as possible, asking for a monthly $0.99 fee to cover 'server costs', then gradually increasing the amount once customers have swallowed the bitter pill (most remaining due to inertia or horror at losing their games). Before they know it they'll be rolling in cash, part of which would be kicked-back to the game companies to keep them neutral in the whole sordid affair.

Actually the more I think about it, the more plausible it appears. Seems like easy money considering how addicted many gamers are to their games. Given that Blizzard can charge $15 a month for a single game, Valve (or its future owners) could make a small fortune charging for multi-game access from a captive customer base. After all, according to their TOS it doesn't seem Steam users would have any legal recourse against such a move - they waive such rights when they purchase via Steam... at least that appears to be the case from the (admittedly limited) excepts of the user agreement which have been published here.

Ah well, if it ever happens I'll laugh cynically. In the meantime I'll continue to play games where I all I need is a DOS emulator or the CD it came on.

[Ilona Neumann]

As I always say in these threads, I'm probably going to buy the steam version, but I don't see any reason the game would need to use steam.

(I know they've had it as a requirement for FO:NV but I don't think that was Bethesdas choice, was it?)

I don't know if Obsidian begged Bethesda for Steamworks but Bethesda was the publisher & typically it is the publisher's decision on the choice of DRM

Any of you who say you "will not by if it requires steam" is lying.
You will buy whatever way it comes out and you know it.
I highly doubt that if you buy a physical copy, that requires Steam activation, Valve profits.
Valve only profits of games downloaded through Steam, which they have every right to because they pay for servers and stuff.

Their threats are hollow!

They'll tell us they won't buy it till their blue in the mouth, but when it comes release day 11-11-11 they'll be in line to get their copy!

granted some may cave in but I do have a space that would have been for New vegas but alas it's not there simply because of Steam. that will be the same for Skyrim unless Steam itself changes for the better IMO (and I don't see that happening)

[Nick Tyler]

So what? Who cares what the statistics say? I still buy CDs and will never use Itunes with their crappy quality, I rip my CDs in FLAC format with bitrates over 1000kbps, who needs Itunes 200-something bitrate. Or I listen to my CDs on my Stereo. I still have a normal newspaper and so do millions of people.

The publishers care what statistics say. They want to know where the money is.

Either that or another company will purchase it and systematically sell off it's assets for profit. Either way this "plan" will probably never see the light of day, leaving all of it's users high and dry.

Another company would purchase it and most likely continue operations. Steam is a cash cow. I know Microsoft personally wants it, because GFWL is weak in comparison but they refuse to give up their plans of controlling the PC gaming market like they do Xbox.

But I do trust Valve. They seem to be morally good, unlike companies like Activision, and really take care of their players. If they cared so much about just making money, I don't think they'd give their games away for free like they do once in a while. I have two wonderful licenses for Portal and one for Half-Life 2, neither of which I paid for. In the event Valve goes under, I am confident that they would send out a patch that removed the lock-in for Steam games. Perhaps trade the licenses to the last surviving digital distributor.

Also going on this though, I don't forsee Steam ever going under. That isn't to say it's impossible, but the trend of going digital is very real and is happening now. This is why I have Netflix, I don't go to Blockbuster anymore. The Blockbuster in the town over just closed its doors because it isn't earning money anymore. I used to work at Target, and the CD section keeps shrinking every year to only include popular artists, ones that will still sell. I read my news online and watch it on TV, I don't have a newspaper. And while I prefer physical books, I've bought a few Kindle versions because it saved me a drive to the bookstore. Not everyone does this, but the majority does, and that's what matters in the end

[jason worrell]

I find it interesting how people start to bring up valid concerns and then proceed to jump off the deep end by randomly making up scenarios that they think are "likely."

Best case scenario for me is that the boxed version allows you to download through Steam too.

I don't know about you guys but I am really worried about the PC version of Skyrim. If it turns out anything like Crysis 2, it will not support DirectX 11 or 10 making newer GPUs worthless, the GUI and graphics options will be dumbed-down like it is on consoles, and it will not run in 64-bit. If the industry continues down this Wii-inspired cater to the casual gamers only path, I will just stop playing games all together.

You do realize that the raw power of a GPU is not capped by what API it is using I hope?

Secondly, limited graphics options have nothing to do with console vs. PC. I don't know why Crytek did it, but they showed such arrogance when they realized Crysis I wouldn't doubt they feel people don't "need" more options than those they bestow on their customers. Either way the direction they went with the sequel is much smarter market wise than bragging that most computers can't run their game (which they bragged with the first game).

Running in 64-bit only matters for RAM usage. It has potential issues for modders but is not significant for game performance.

I'm not sure where you're getting this "Wii-inspired" thing from considering the Wii also has traditional games as well, but either way your priorities make zero sense to me, no offense. It doesn't matter how the game plays or looks to you, only that you can't brag about what your hardware can do? Why even play games at all if your biggest concerns have nothing at all to do with how the game plays?