already confirmed as GFWL

Provide evidence. It's been confirmed as Games For Windows certified, which is not in any way the same as Games For Windows Live.

Thanks for clarifying showler. However, I would say that, it is not the existence of some versions of the game with Steamworks DRM that I am opposed to. It is the existence of ALL versions of the game with Steamworks DRM that I am opposed to.

"Exclusive Distribution via Steamworks DRM" would be more technically correct, but I think Steam exclusive suffices.

Here is what I know for certain:

I own Mount&Blade Warband, a game developed by Taleworlds and published by Paradox. I bought it via digitial download on the Gamersgate online store. I had to use a traditional serial key (as is standard practice on Gamersgate) form of "DRM" to activate the game once it was DLed and installed. I was not required to participate in anyway with Steam, and apart from the download process and having to view my serial key online, there was no networking required to continue to play the game, or to reset it to "offline mode." There is also no auto-update features, nor any background networking aspects to the Gamersgate digital download model. You just pay for, download, activate, and then you are not in anyway required to have an internet connection in order to be able to play the game; EVER. I don't see what the problem with this model is, and if a digital service is going to be an option, this is what I would prefer.

There are other guys who own the "Steam version" of M&B Warband, and based on what I know, they bought, downloaded, activated, and update their game entirely through Steam. In sum, with Warband, Steam is optional, not exclusive. This is what I think Bethesda should do with Skyrim: figure out how to make it distributed by Steam, and other channels that do not require Steam.

I see a lot of other guys, indeed about 21% of the respondents to this poll, saying much the same thing: don't make me use Steam to play Skyrim.

Seems to me Bethesda should be very interested in the fact that 21% of the folks who took the time to respond to this poll say that will not buy if it requires Steam, and an additional 21% say they would prefer not to have to use Steam. Alienating 1/5th of the prospective buyers simply to enjoy whatever benefits derive from Exclusive Distribution via Steamworks DRM, and hassling another 1/5th is not what I would call good business.

Good business is getting your product in front of as many prospective customers as possible, offering it to them at a price they find reasonable, and making it available to them via a purchasing and acquisition process that they prefer. Obviously, based on the large fraction of respondents to this poll who say they will buy it with Steam (58%) making it availalbe via Steam as one option would seem to be a smart element in a good marketing strategy. But alienating/hassling the remaining 42% for the sake of that 58% in order to make Steam exclusive seems like a rather exhorbitant tradeoff, particular when I see that a smaller publisher like Paradox can somehow swing the Steam Optional approach with Valve.

It's the word "distribution" that is the problem. It keeps implying that it will only be available for purchase through Steam.

It is likely that it will be available in Disc format from any game retailer that sells games in that format. That includes Gamestop, Wal-Mart, Best Buy, etc.

It may not be available for Digital Distribution through any means other than Steam (such as Direct2Drive (avoid at all costs), GamersGate or Impulse). That's unknown at the moment. There have been deals cut where a game can be purchased and downloaded through another online digital distributor and then registered with Steam, but we know nothing right now about any plans Bethesda has for online digital sales. Even if it is available through other digital distributors, that would not remove the major complaint most people have, which is the necessity of installing and running Steam with the game.

Wouldn't affect my decision in the slightest. Actually, i'd almost see it as a positive thing.

not our problems if you want to play skyrim and its steam verification get over it and play it on steam.

I shan't buy it if it requires Steam/Steamworks.

Steam is incompetent, so I would rather not have to go through them to get the game. I'm not a fan of digital downloads anyways. I like to have the physical copy personally.

As someone who doesn't use Steam; if it is Steam activated, will I be required to install the whole Steam program?

Regarding Steam
If I do have to install it, is it very intrusive?
How often does it need updating roughly?
Does it require to be running in the background when playing a Steam activated game?

Yes you will :mellow:



You will be able to buy it on a disc, it would just require STEAM for the achievements!

I'm missing the poll-option "I'm only buying Skyrim if it (also) comes out on Steam".
I think there are as much people who want it to be on Steam as there are who don't want it on Steam.

I, personally, think Steam is great and have migrated all my gaming to Steam, and am very glad that most games are out on Steam nowadays.

I don't mind Steam, it's a good online service for buying games thanks to their sales (even though it's often cheaper to go to the local store despite the Steam sale if the game is relatively new).

But I very much dislike Steamworks and all it stands for (online activations to play a retail single player games and so on), and before Half-Life 2 was released, no single player game required an online activation. Valve started the whole online activation DRM thing for single player games and opened the way for other online variants of DRM. And for that I dislike Valve greatly.

That doesn't make me boycott or avoid their service, though. I just wait until the game is very cheap (~5 euros) during a Steam sale. I've never bought a new game on Steam, and I doubt I ever will, it's all about the cheap sales there. Right now I'm waiting for Civ5 to be cheap.

Anyway, as I see it, if a person buy a single player game in a retail store, s/he shouldn't be forced to activate the game online to play it. For those people Steam is just another piece of junk with extra hassle that they are forced to use to play their game, which is not the case for those who choose to buy games from Steam, they use it from their own choice.

That said, I'm sure Skyrim will use Steamworks and require Steam, so I'm glad Zenimax is giving me the game for free

Exclusive Steamworks digital Activation/Validation is I guess more accurate.



@anandus: I think answer #1 covers that sufficiently doesn't it?

Based on this poll http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1155984-skyrim-steam-and-you/page__st__120__gopid__16992229#entry16992229

Your guess that about equal proportions of users are for Steam exlusive and Steam excluded seems correct. However, the majority (~73%) would prefer Steam as one option.

Yes, you'll have to install Steam, but it is a fairly small program.
It's not very intrusive if you only run it when the game is running. Gboost or Game Booster more than make up for the resources Steam uses for the majority of players if you have problems that way.
It only really needs updating when the game company releases a new patch. Generally it will check for updated both for itself and the games every time you allow it to connect to the internet.
Yes, it runs in the background when running a Steam activated game. You can minimize what it does by turning off the community features, but there is always a verification service running in the background.


And you should "hush yo' mouth", cause this might also start a fight. A jealousy fight.

Does Bethesda Game Studios have any control over this? I thought the publisher, Bethesda Softworks, would be in charge of how the game is distributed.

I hope they look at these threads though to see how many games they wouldn't be able to sell because of a steam only option. This is a problem that can be easily solved by more than one option, like before.

Certainly this problem can be easily solved, but we don't actually know what made them decide to tie NV to Steam in the first place. We can speculate, but no details have ever been released and since Beth/Beth and ZeniMax are privately owned, chances are no details will ever be released.

I'd assume it wasn't an arbitrary decision, and I'd also assume that they are paying attention to both New Vegas sales figures and the response from consumers.

What conclusions they have or will come to is anyone's guess at this point.

I don't think you can say whether or not a person will or won't.

I won't be buying Skyrim if it is Steam-exclusive, either. New Vegas was number three pissed down the well for me, and I'm not going to do it again.


:EDIT: I also wish to note to all the people who claim that the issues with Steam are over exaggerated - Shut up. Seriously. Shut up. It's like saying that not a single person on the planet is allergic to peanuts, knowing all the while some people die from the reactions. If Steam was dialup friendly, didn't eat every trace of my (admittedly miniscule) bandwidth, switch itself back to online mode (IT DOES. DON'T EVEN DARE SAY IT DOESN'T.) and make my gaming experience an utter fail festival, I'd enjoy Steam.

But I'm tired of wasting my money on games I can't play. So I will NEVER. Buy. Another. Steam. Only. Game.

I will a dvd copy of Skyrim if possible, but will buy through steam if necasarry.

Awesome I'm buying it on steam anyways if or if it does not have steamworks.

That's the WORST idea I've ever heard.
Steam exclusive ?
Do you know how many gamers out there doesn't use credit cards or doesn't have fast dsl 24/7 ?
Its a bad,BAD idea for the game to be exclusive to steam,why sould Bethesda sacrifice the product's availibility ?
It's not reasonable for them to do it from marketing perspective,and I don't want to have to have a d**n credit card and pay interest every month and end up paying the double and triple amount of money when I buy something,just for being able to play a video game.

What's wrong with you people ?

Do you really think that having a credit card makes you so cool and you show off by saying unreasonable things like "I want to do X with my credit card" ?
OMG.

I suspect it will be available on disc - you can still buy those with cash (so I have heard) and will only need to activate the game through Steam, which costs nothing.

When I buy a game, I want it in hand with a manual and a DVD. I refuse to use Steam and I won't be buying anything for it or that uses it. I'm getting it for the XBox 360. I'll get it for the PC as long as I get an actual game. If it's steam only, I won't get TES for the PC.

You realize you can buy the PC DVD, get the manual and still have it require Steam to activate and use, right?

That's the situation being discussed, not Digital Download only.

When I get it on PC (may or may not be before I get it for console) I will get it on steam if that is an option, so there you go.

Then I'll most likely not get it at all on the PC. Steam is a resource hog and I won't have that "Bloatware" on any system I own.