You could argue that, but would anyone believe you ? :spotted owl:

this is going to sound silly, but my pros and cons are like this.

morrowind,
more reasons to explore
combat was way unbalanced, but was really fun
combat was faster paced

oblivion,

everything from fighting a bandit on the road to defeating a few ogres felt like an epic struggle due to level scaling, you could never gain the upper hand on anything, and combat took forever

exploring was unnecessary, and often pointless, since you never found anything special in the dungeons, just more crap.

the quests were not buggy, in morrowind i could not even finish bloodwind because i got some sort of bug that i like to call "WEREWOLVES IN THE GREATHALL!" since there were none in there

the guilds seemed to be better done in oblivion, but i admit i did not do the fighters or theves guild in morrowind, but i did in oblivion.

like some other people said, the citys were not as unique, but i think that the fact that exploring in oblvion was so useless (this door is locked) made the problem with the citys not feel unique even more noticeable


sorry if i sound ranty, morrowind and oblvion both have their good sides, i guess i liked morrowind more, but dont think for a second i did not play alot of oblivion too

also keep in mind i had no mods for morrowind, since it was on the xbox

They should make an updated version of Morrowind (Like how DICE made Battlefield 1943). Wouldn't be all that hard to do compared to making a completely new game. There have already been some mods that have attempted to do this. It certainly would tide me over, while they take however long they need for TESV.

word that would be sweeett!

Oblivion's soulless npcs just made me feel like slaughtering entire towns. I felt like there was no reason to keep them alive. In morrowind I would actually feel -sad- if I saw some of these characters die. Many of the main characters had very interesting personalities that left an impression on me even today. Divayth Fyr... Vivec... Dagoth Ur... Caius Cosades... hell even Crassius Curio, who scarred me for life. Theres a moment before you fight Dagoth Ur where Dagoth Ur has a civil conversation with you, its extremely interesting to hear what he had planned, what he thought of you, and speaking of the past. Morrowind had an element of confusion that made you think, and wonder about the past. Did Vivec really kill the Nerevarine? Which past is true? Vivec's version in the sermons, or the ashlander? Or are -both- true? Are you really the Nerevarine, or just some pawn spawned by Azura? Are you really doing the right thing by ending the tribunal? The Great Houses were incredibly interesting and vastly different from each other. The strange, apathetic, and eccentric Telvanni. The declining honorable Redoran, who were struggling to keep honor, piety, and nobility within Morrowind and its people. The greedy and backstabbing Hlaalu, merchants, corrupt, and willing to adapt to survive. The guilds were awesome as well. The in-fighting in the fighter's guild, choosing to disobey corrupt orders in favor of bringing back a more honorable fighter's guild. Theres a part in the mage's guild where the steward in Balmora tells you to kill a 'necromancer' who turns out not to be a necromancer at all, but a healer. You have the choice of killing her, or lying to the steward. It turns out the steward just had an intense hatred for the healer. But anyways, before I rant too much. This is why I loved Morrowind. Sure, Oblivion had great gameplay. But thats it. Its gameplay. All you feel like doing is killing and getting loot. Theres no conflict. No involvement. No reason. No personality. Only Demo-- 'Daedra'. And the firey pits of hel-- I mean Oblivion opening and wreaking havoc on the holy people of the chathol-- erm, chapel of the nine, when finally Sata-- Mehrunes Dagon comes and smashes things up. The realms of oblivion were portrayed wrong, as only pits of hellish landscape -- when only Mehrunes Dagon's deadlands are like that. But.. ah well. I'm done.

P.S. This does not include Shivering Isles, in my opinion, Shivering Isles was a masterpiece and a step forward and towards what Morrowind was sort of like. The npcs were full of personality. The landscape was alien and insane. Sheogorath was bloody hilarious and full of character. Haskill was his perfect companion, counterbalancing his madness with complete deadpan dry annoyance. The story was great, had twists, and made you think. I actually felt sad Sheogorath was gone. Terribly. Terribly sad. *Shakes fist.* DAMN YOU JYGGALAAAG! My only hopes is your character completely morphs in Sheogorath, as its suggested when you become him. So we have him in later games. =D

Ah the current generation *sigh*

First of all, pretty much all the points you brought up... Are EXACTLY why I prefer Morrowind over Oblivion. You get lost. You get sidetracked. "Where do I go?!" You ask, "Who do I talk to?! Oh I'm so confused!" Well that's life for you, buddy. You've been dropped off in an alien world, with no knowledge of it's landscape, it's creatures, it's inhabitants, it's politics, or it's towns and city's. You're weak. You're pathetic. And up to a point Morrowind makes you fee like that at every step. You're not the knight in shining armor! You're just some bloke trying to get from town A to To B without getting jumped by dozens of Cliff Racers. All your attacks miss? Well haven't you been in Jail? How long do you think it's been since the PC held a weapon? Cast a spell? Jumped around? In the beggining the PC is a loser, everyone hates him. Read my review of Morrowind, I adressed alot of these points in it.

In Morrowind I found myself conciously memorizing routes from one town to another (since there is no fast travel or quest compass) so that adds to the immersion. I found myself PREPARING for each trek across the providence, because I knew if I DIDN'T I'd certainly be up the creek without a paddle. I'd make sure I had enough potions, a spell or scroll of intervention, a few summons in case things get out of control... You really don't have to WORRY about anything in Oblivion. And since TES is kind of all about exploration... Well don't you think exploring an utterly alien world should be worrisome? Don't you think you should prepare before beggining a voyage across the country? Everything is scaled in Oblivion, so there's no chance of you coming in contact with a creature that'll cause you to run away with your tail tucked between your legs.

This brings up another point which I believe Antibody adressed early on in the thread, but didn't touch on too extensively. Oblivion's environment is STERILE compared to Morrowind's. Morrowind is frightening. Everything looks to be plucked directly from your nightmares-- the creatures, the architecture, the sounds, the lighting... Where Oblivion is bright and colorful and happy and Tolkien-Esque (like every other fantasy game under the sun), Morrowind is dark, depressing, challenging, and can't really be compared to any previous work of Fantasy.

It's an original game. I doubt there will ever be another like it.

Nothing can compare to playing Morrowind for the first time. Jesus... I wish I could wipe all the assorted Morrowind knowledge from my brain just to experience that frightening sense of alienation the first time invokes. Sometimes while exploring you'll come across something crazy and think to yourself "Well maybe I shouldn't be here ? " Man? I wanna be a newbie again.



QFT. Excellent post.

Yes.
A million times, yes.

And another thing that was amazing about Morrowind was the feeling of being clueless at first. They did a wonderful job making your character easy to identify with yourself. Because both of you are clueless, an outlander. You know nothing about Morrowind and its culture or people. With your character you must learn their customs, ways, and culture. So you grow with your character as you learn. Like you're looking through his eyes.

Like a "stranger in a strange land."

Such a priceless feeling!

I recall the first time I decided to see just how tough an Ordinator was.

I equipped my killin' knife and started sneaking up behind him to get that first good hit in. . . Like a second before I clicked that button, dude spins a 180 on me. . . "Lets not make this official, Outlander."

I about crapped myself. It was such an awesome sensation to be actually intimdated by a freaking video game. Yeah, I probably could have killed him considering all the gear I had; but that one line at just right moment, i actually backed down and to date have never even considered killing another Ordinator.

Morrowind was full of moments like that which will forever put it at the top of my favorite games list.

That's awesome, haha.

To the guy who said Oblivion's guilds were better done.

Sure, if you like cliche stuff. Comparing Morrowind's guilds to Oblivion's guilds is comparing...

Lord of the Rings compared to Eragon.

Yes, Eragon is okay, but Lord of the Rings is EPIC! That is not personal opinion. They were far less cliche, much more interesting. How cool is it to be a member of a guild of fighters that serves the empire, but is really just enforcers for the mafia. Could be me, but I prefer Morrowind Mages' Guild over the cliche NECROMANCERZISEVILZ guild of Oblivion.

I'm not flaming either game, but I think (as well as many others) that Morrowind is superior in every way, except graphics.

I prefer Oblivion myself it just has a better atmosphere and side quests. I just love the whole feel of the game like underground cults and it was that medieval type of fantasy where it's all Myth and just feels realistic.

Yes, it was generic medieval type fantasy. Made to attract casual gamers. Thats exactly why I disliked it, it changed a very original, interesting, and complex lore rpg into something cliche, it was devoid of anything really meaningful or interesting or thought provoking. Other than a few things like the Thieves Guild and the Dark Brotherhood. Those are probably the two guilds I would think were better than Morrowind's. Eh.. I still can't see how anyone enjoys the uninteresting generic characters, save a handful. But.. s'just my opinion so. Take it as you like.

P.S. Also Sixth House Cult > Mythic Dawn Cult Why? Because the Sixth House Cult is actually scary, intimidating, freakish, and gives mental images of disgust. (They tear off their own corprus flesh and eat it, for chrissakes.) And because they had a deep history, and interesting characters within. While the Mythic Dawn cult had the cliche satanic cult feel going on. Besides, who bloody worships a God of destruction who will obviously kill you if he had the chance? Sure, I can see there being cultists of that. But they would be red-robed idiots not smart enough to make complicated evil plans.

You talk about Oblivion but it all sounds as if you are describing Morrowind truly.

I mean atmosphere and ' where its all myth' belongs to the morrowind department, along with characterization and realism.

Unless you consider having the ability of sending a cup to fly half a kilometer with a finger as ' realistic'

it's more immersive and challenging! and in morrowind it's more fun to explore random caves and things, in oblivion all the caves seemed identical and it felt like a chore.

Completely agreed. . . except for one thing.
The Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion isn't anywhere near as cool as the Morag Tong in Morrowind.

Again, more that anything (as far as video games are concerned) I want a remade morrowind with Oblivion's mechanics and graphics.



I get the impression that you didn't spend much time with Morrowind.

You might be interested in these two:
http://openmw.sourceforge.net/jaws/index.php/page/about.html
http://crystalscrolls.sourceforge.net/

If I understand correctly both are fan projects to rebuild the MW engine from scratch and make it even more moddable than it already is.



If you tell people to read your review it would probably helpful to provide them with a http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1070239.



Awesome story!



I agree, generally speaking. But I would say that Oblivion did handle it's thieves and assassins better. In a few aspects I liked the MW versions better (the TG was in conflict with another guild, the Morag Tong had honor) but overall Oblivion made more steps forward than backwards. Gone are the days when you walked into a local tavern and immediately got asked if you wanted to join the TG, independant thievery is a wonderful method for advancing in a guild of thieves (actually makes more sense than checking your stealth skills - afterall getting the job done is what really counts), and there was more to assassination than whacking a guy and presenting the guards with a piece of paper that said it was okay for you to do so.

One aspect in oblivion that was far worse compared to Morrowind was the vampire part. In Morrowind you actually had a quest, someone to follow, and a reason to do it. In Oblivion you're just left there, a beast without meaning, without goal or purpose and left alone, isolated from everything. What was the point of having vampires at all in Oblivion?

Another part where Morrowind was far superior was the whole magic system, it is simplified in Oblivion, and using making against fiends make more sense. However! In Morrowind you had a lot more fun spells, like high jump, levitate and other spells, more is better in this case, not to mention these kinds of spells made the game as a whole more enjoyable. Jumping over the highest tower in the game was just crazy, but travelling this way was fun and fast.

Which brings me to the next point, athletics and acrobatics made more sense in Morrowind. They weren't realistic, but so what, you trained like crazy jumping up steps or slopes (I know you all did the same ) in order to max it, for the sole purpose of getting an insanely high jump and speed.

And that is what made Morrowind better, it was insane. It was well balanced because it was crazy hard to become the best. but when you got there, you were not just strong, you could do whatever you wanted. Something that Oblivion lacked, when you are the best in Oblivion you still just feel like a part of a cog, nothing more, nothing less, You can't do anything that you couldn't as lvl 1, you are just better at the same things.

And so are the bad guys.

Stuff Morrow wind has over Oblivion

1. Firstly Mobs didnt level up with you
2. Loot wasnt random and the same level as you,
3. When you leveled up you felt stronger because Npcs didnt level with you
4. Better magic creation system In oblivion it was so easy to exploit and make a spell which does 1000 damage and only cost 300 mana
5. Harder
6. better storyline
7. no instant fast travel from the map
8. No quest markers had to use the landmarks to find dungeons etc
9. Had more skills, more magic spells and levitation spell
10. morrowwind felt bigger
11. was more epic
12. didnt have to be modded to hell and back to be fun the second time round
13. The environment changed depending on where u were Oblivion was just one forest : /
14. You could be a thief and steal from houses, unlike oblivion were there were no items of value to steal from houses what so ever.
15. Being able to join a house and make a fortress.
16. Being the Nevaran kicked [censored]
17. Had TONS of legendary weapons and armour scattered around the land
18. Didnt have that lame Points of interest bar in oblivion, making exploration pointless

Stuff Oblivion has over Morrowwind

1. An improved combat system
2. you could block
3. you could cast spells with your weapon out
4. full voice acting
5. better stealth gameplay
6. better speechcraft system
7. Npc routines
8. Mounts
9. Easier to mod which is a must because thats the only way to make it playable

Man they really dumbed down the series but I guess its how it works. Daggerfall had a ton more content than morrowwind. I can imagine the next installment will be even more dumbed down.

I feel like Morrowind was a perfect medium between Daggerfall and Oblivion. Sure, Daggerfall had ALOT of interesting content, but it was extremely difficult to get playing, and actually play. Morrowind had good graphics, the alien atmosphere, a great story and design, decent combat system (At least I think so, Oblivion's would be better however with a few tweaks.) and great factions. It wasn't too hard, or too easy as well. The hand placed items and various places made sense and had particular meaning.

(Also NPCS weren't fugly as in Oblivion, and even better with mods like better heads and world of faces.)

in all honestly oblivion got its good points, but it had to be modded to the insane for it to be fun in the long run.
and sure,I get the mods,play with mods and all, but it is purely to get mods I?m at one or two oblivion places,the community feels a bit tense to say the least,it is a fact several people left and it is almost in every case in the oblivion part of the community,which speaks volumes for it self, that and I?m not that interested in slideshows,pardon me, it is screenshots of course

morrowind on the other hand I can live without mods if I have to,but they sure are a nice addition to the game,not perfect but perfect is boring,some flaws here and there makes it more interesting.
as for the community, the morrowind world it is at least slightly more transparent,so you know if you get any backstabbing,spineless,hypocrits of whiners targeted at you,pure speculation of course

For the future I have good hope in that alternative engines will work platform independent,it is still a bit reduced morrowind experience under wine for example,and openmw/crystal hopefully solves that, and it is still good things happening in the mod and mge-front,on the other hand morrowind never have been about graphics for me,so current mge is more than ok.

I have to disagree with those two. Full voice acting made it so there were less topics to talk about, less said in each topic, and lack of variety in voices. (Though, there was variety in voices in FO3, which gives me hope)

And the horse AI was really bad, plus it made Cyrodiil feel smaller than it already is. (In-game, of course)

Still full voice acting does make the game more immersive, but I agree with you that there weren't that many topics
Horse AI wasnt to great, but the main reason Cyrodil felt so small was the easy fast travel system. If that system wasn't in place Mounts would of been perfect I know this because I downloaded a Mod to get rid of fast travel.

Just hope they make the next TES more like Morrowwind than Oblivion.