I agree with this.

On a side note, I'm curious to see Piper in combat. What kind of weapon will she use? Will she go charging into battle or hang back? Very curious indeed.

I don't like immortal NPC's at all in video games.

But that's not 'fun'. Especially if you actually liked the companion. And the choices/consequences that generally cause a companion to die on me is terrible NPC AI, not a choice I made to have the companion charge a monster with an iron dagger.

Boring is having to reload the game over and over again.

Well it makes more sense to have the companions die, especially in the Fallout video games.

It's a a post apocalyptic video game and I want my companions to die and feel sad or mad or whatever because they died and move on forward.

The Artificial Intelligence (A..I) is not that bad like some people say.

The NPC's that were Essential in The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion I made killable with a mod I made and only 2 have died since 2006 when I purchased The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion and I have been playing a few hours every week The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion since 2006.

The same goes for Fallout 3 I made a mod to make all Essential NPC's killable and only 1 has died since 2008 when I purchased Fallout 3. And for Fallout: New Vegas and for The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. I hate having to make mods though to make all NPC's killable though.

Reloading a save game over and over if a companion dies doesn't seem boring to me if they die just reload. It hampers the video game for people who want all NPC's to die in their video games and want choices and consequences. I personally have never reloaded a save game yet when important quest NPC ('s) or companions died. I just say oh that NPC('s) died and continue playing the video games.

You could always save/reload to keep companions immortal before, while at the same time those who wanted to let things play out got to let things play out.

Now the option is forced, and only one side gets what they want. How is that a better system?

Mods will fix. What's the issue?

Realism and a copout for poor AI.

What does the lack of armor and weapon degradation have to do with anything I said?

And even if it did. What is the point of whether another company does it?

Are we going to make all games EXACTLY the same?

You are still in the minority even on the Witcher. I played the Witcher. I frankly HATED the fact that I would try to be nice to people and get screwed over by the game for it.

Way to make people feel good about their choices. I play games for fun, NOT to be screwed over because I did not see the enemy attacking Dogmeat around the corner until the

game pops up and tells me he died. That is exactly what you get with hardcoe mode in NV. And guess what I reload! Just like the MAJORITY of players.

We should not have to suffer through that just to satisfy the masochistic tendencied of a much smaller group of players.

THAT IS WHAT MODS ARE FOR!

As was said by others (see quote below), your viewpoint would be ok except that it isn't your choice when companions die, not usually, anyway. Instead, it is the companions being stupid, even refusing to follow explicit orders you have given them. That is not an RPG and it is not your choice. Your choice was to give them an order (e.g., use this weapon, stay with/near me, stay at this spot and guard it, etc.). Companions refuse to follow explicit orders and get killed. They don't even break from combat and run away as they should when they get low in health, a very simple thing to put in their AI.

There is no excuse for companions to have such poor AI, not with today's computing power available to average consumers.

^^^^^

This, exactly this. Even if you get less XP (as long as it's not zero), there's no reason at all to risk yourself. An intelligent leader would NEVER risk their life if they have the ability to command subordinates who are essentially immortal to simply fight until enemies drop, even if the subordinates have to drop, recover, drop, recover repeatedly. Doing anything else would be the mark of a very stupid commander/leader.

^^^

This, as I said above.

However, your viewpoint that immortal companions isn't a problem is false as I (and others) have explained. We've pointed out WHY immortal companions is a huge issue in an RPG. Actually, I'll add a simple anology: it's exactly the same type of problem as NPCs who have infinite ammo. The latter case makes encounters totally annoying because you know you are not engaging an enemy on more or less equal terms, but that they can simply "spray and pray" with no regard to limited resources in a world where limited resources are supposed to be THE major issue for everyone and everything.

Also, as many people have pointed out when Todd made a claim in an interview that "no one plays the game and lets the dog die"... wrong, LOTS of people let the dog die, and LOTS of people could not care less about the dog in the first place because LOTS of people are not "dog people" as Todd is. If my companion was a cat, I might be concerned, but not a dog.

Nope, it doesn't work like that, not in the game. You do not need to take any action to revive a fallen companion because they will eventually revive all on their own. They will continue the fight once they revive. It just takes longer and is a very boring and immersion-breaking mechanic because it is so horribly unrealistic.

@Tempest:

No, your preference is not the majority of players. On the contrary, I would say that all the evidence we have had show that the people who want unkillable NPCs are in the minority (and should be for any RPG, of course, as it is a totally unrealistic mechanic that undermines any effort to roleplay a character in a virtual world). If you really think otherwise, let's see your research data that shows that the majority of people who play Fallout 3 (or other games with companions) want NPCs that are unkillable. Otherwise, you cannot make the claim you made. It has nothing to do with being masochistic, but is simply a matter of wanting to roleplay in an RPG (or a game that is marketed as such, at least).

Actually, I'm pretty sure the majority of players are in the camp of "don't care either way". And enough about choices and consequences; this is not one of those situations. Your companion's death in a random fight is not presenting you with a choice.

I don't care for mostly 2 big reasons:

1-> I don't use followers, thus completely dodging any follower related issues

2-> The few times I did use followers in FO3, it was Dogmeat and Fawkes, and it was with Broken Steel installed, so they were functionally immortal

I wonder if you can piss off companions by accidentally shooting them in the face? In skyrim that was quite a problem (although I think they patched it.) You would piss off your immortal companion, they'd try to kill you and your only option was to reload because they wouldn't stop attacking you.

Skyrim was more fair than that, though. They'd immediately leave your service (meaning they were no longer protected or in this case essential), and unless you continually pissed them off they'd cease attacking if you lowered your weapon.

You tell me that I need to research to have MY opinion but it is ok to spout off your opinion as gospel without said proof?

Here is my proof -

over 25 million people bought Skyrim. Skyrim uses a mechanic similar to that described for Fallout 4.

How many of those 25 million people have complained about unkillable NPCS?

Well lets take a look at mod downloads on Nexus shall we,

The most downloaded is the forbidden one and has .....

Wait for it --- 20,367 downloads. That's it.

Now for follower mods there are several with way more downloads. UFO (the one I use) has just north of 4,500,000. But guess what? It does not mean automatically that followers can die.

I personally use it with the same protected mechanic as vanilla as do many other people. That's also assuming they are discrete downloads which is also unlikely as these mods went through

numerous versions over their lifespan.

Even if all of these were unique and the 5-6 million people who downloaded these mods made followers killable ( a very unlikely prospect),

that means that out of the 25,000,000 or so copies sold that is still no more than 25%-30%.

A MINORITY.

Edit - I forgot Nexus does track unique downloads. For UFO it was 2.3 million unique downloads. Which skews it even more in my favor.

You know out of those 25 million copies of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim sold most of them were sold on the PlayStation 3 (PS3) and Xbox 360 where mod access does not exist and is illegal right?

9.4 million or so copies of the PC version of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim sold on PC and 5 million PC gamers or 6 million PC gamers downloading mods to make all NPC's or so killable is a lot and not in the minority.

Both sides are even.

The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt has a armor and weapons degradation system and a lot of people who praised The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim for not having a armor and degradation system also purchased The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt I'm willing to be I know I am one of those people.

A lot of people who purchased The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt praised CD Projekt RED for having a armor and weapons degradation system in The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt.

So far The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt has sold 6+ million copies and when CD Projekt RED talks about their next financial report I'm willing to bet that The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt has sold 8+ million copies or even 10+ million copies.

So yes both sides are even and I don't believe that people who want at least all NPC's killable are not in the minority.

The number of mods downloaded doesn't mean anything because as I said most of the copies of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim sold were on the PlayStation 3 (PS3) and Xbox 360 versions. Where mod access is illegal.

Well first off that was not directed at you.

Second why do I care what CD Projekt Red did, again??

Even?

How about YOU show me your homework on how many copies were Xbox vs PS vs PC?

You cannot.

And you have NOTHING to back up your sold units of Witcher either. I own it because it came with a new video card like thousands of people.

And you know what I played Witcher 3 and NEVER needed to worry about weapon or armor degradation. Oblivion and Morrowind and FO3 and FNV made them wear out way to fast. I original did not like the lack of degradation in Skyrim until I realized it was useless busy work that took away from me actually enjoying the game.

Game is supposed to = fun. I like some very complicated TTRPG's (like Harnmaster,Rolemaster, and the venerable Aftermath) so I know about complicated games. There is a reason why D&D is the big winner in that field however - simple and easy for the masses to figure out and minimal bookkeeping. And you can then add all sorts of optional rules on top of it.

And you still ignore the fact that you have mods to "fix" the things you dislike. The typical player is NOT going to use mods. If they dislike a game enough they will just stop playing and not come back. If the franchise is to grow they need to make money. This game would not have been made as big as it looks to be without the massive number of "the causals" who picked up Skyrim.

So you can have your nice little indie game with everything you want pre-baked in or you can get a big expansive game that you have the ability to mod to your liking. I know which I will pick.

You are overlooking a technicality. Companions are not immortal. They can't die not because it is in their nature to be death proof, but only because the game imposes that rule on them. If you have your leader send his subordinate in alone because the game prevents the follower from getting killed, then you aren't role-playing. You are acting on your personal knowledge of the game, not on the knowledge of the leader. In his reality, his subordinate can die.

Many players prefer not to adventure alone. They value the partnership more than they value a partnership ever at risk of ending. Multiplayer is a popular request. In a single-player game, running your character alongside a companionable NPC is as close to a multiplayer experience as you can have. In a pencil-and-paper RPG, when the character of one of your friends dies, your friend is not evicted permanently from the game. Instead, your friend supplies a replacement character, and your character's adventure with friends continues.

There are only twelve special companions in Fallout 4. These are presumably the best the game offers. There are no replacements.

Um the reason I brought up CD Projekt RED and The Witcher 3: WIld Hunt is because I brought up that people praised CD Projekt RED for adding a armor and weapons degradation system to The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt and that CD Projekt RED has sold 6+ million copies of The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt.

How do I have nothing to back The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt copies sold? It's on the internet that it sold 6+ million copies for PC, PlayStation 4(PS4), and Xbox One combined. I never said it sold 6+ million copies alone for PC only.

As I said I believe both sides are even.

Also I said most of the copies of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim were sold on the PlayStation 3 (PS3) and Xbox 360, the PC version of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim has sold 9.4 million copies.

Bethesda Game Studios removing armor and weapons degradation system from The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim made me enjoy playing The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim less. I liked the so called "busy" work. It made me feel like I was maintaining my armor and weapons.

I have said it before that I do not like making mods to fix what I don't like or to download mods to fix what I don't like in video games. When I can use that time to make mods or download mods that have new armor, new landmasses, new NPC's, quests, new weapons, etc.

So yeah people wanting all NPC's killable in Fallout 4 are even to the people who don't want all NPC's killable. I refuse that people who want all NPC's killable in their video games are in the minority.

You are SPECULATING. Your proof in no more than hearsay.

And a discussion of armor degradation in another game has no bearing on whether npcs are killable.

Ironically in your precious Witcher 3 NONE of the normal npcs are killable by you. You cannot even pull out your weapon and attack them.

Yet this is the game you hold up as proof that Bethesda needs to change.

Next game: you're invincible. Of course, people are just going to reload and dying doesn't offer anything, right?

What am I speculating? Just read the topics in the Fallout 4 forums and the topics in the Fallout Series Discussion forums and you can see a lot of people want NPC's to be killable and a lot don't, they seem even to me.

You know, I'd actually be interested in Bethesda implementing a "No death" feature, like how they do it in Mount & Blade; where you never actually "die", but you get incapacitated and that leads to getting taken prisoner, or kidnapped, or any number of things. But I don't think it would work in Fallout or the Elder Scrolls, because of the various places and contexts in which we can get ourselves killed (and Bethesda's expressed no interest in such a feature, anyway). And you can bet your Pipboy Edition that if Bethesda ever implemented that feature, which would add depth and a ton of new roleplaying opportunities, it would be decried and vilified as the further casualization and dumbing down of the series. "Ugh, you can't even die any more!"

What might work is if a quest or random encounter was triggered by "dying"; like, you get "killed" in a certain area or in a certain way, and instead of reloading to your last save you wake up in some other part of the map as the prisoner of a bunch of cannibal tribals. Escape quest begins! (or who knows, maybe a Luck perk lets you awaken from a few death scenarios)

Don't worry, I'm sure Bethesda can't do that, even if modders already did.

You know what people say, mod it to suit your needs.

Really? I did not know we had 20,000,000 people commenting in these forums.

I cannot find it now, but someone did a straw poll about this a few months ago and the majority either liked that companions could not die, or did not care. To the tune of 70% or 80%.?

Hardly an even split.

I agree with the devs on this. If a companion die's, you are going to reload the game. If not and there's a finite amount of companions? You could find your self on your own after a few hours having to restart your game perhaps?

This might also lock you out of any companion story missions and rewards later down the line. So for one I am glad they don't die permanently. A possible solution would be to have disposable companions like wanderers or mercs that you pay for that can die?

For all the die hards out there. If your companion is incapacitated then dismiss them and pretend they died? Could I also assume that if your character die's you'll restart the game and add a grave stone in your new characters back yard?