So... people actually use that site apart from me? I feel considerably less nerdy now.


I read that for fun sometimes...

Ada, we all know that you will always be a better geek then some of us.

But yes I also uses really un/necessary sites just for fun.

Mostly for when I'm writing in a historical setting. If I find a word that sounds modern and is hard to swap out, I'll go look it up and sometimes its from 1620 or something.

The grammar is not latin, the values placed in the words are not that of the mediteranian, but actually from the british islands (regarding proper english) so if the structure is not latin the language culture and the usage of the language is not latin, then it is not based on latin, it lacks the structure, most of the words have been adjusted to fit into the english language, much like every other language which takes in loan words. The way you bend the words are also linked with it's gramar and not where the word orginated from.

The english language also have a lot of loan words from old norse and from the scandinavian modern languages, I would not say that english is a nordic language for that sake.

To summarise english is not a latin language and will not be a latin laguage uless it goes trough such a reform as the french language went trough from going from Old Frankish to French. There you have a language which is almost exclusivly latin but with traces of it germanic heritage.

:glare:

This is beside the point. The point is that derived languages have vestigial semblances of its progenitor language(s). Sometimes to the point where the two can sound almost the same, but still be different. (US English, and UK English, for instance.)

The relationship here would be more like modern Italian VS classical Latin. (Tamriellic Common VS Aldmeris)

A quibble over "where" the red-headed stepchild of English came from is tangential at best.

It would be so hot if someone created ecclasiastic Aldmeris. But, you know the lore's not cool enough for languages. Except Ta'agra. I heard there was a grammar set up for that one.

This is true, Wierd. This is true. I know this is your thread, and I certainly don't wish to thread jack. I'm just saying, since we're all posting in English, I figured everyone would be familiar enough with the language to recognize the similarities between it and other Germanic languages. It is totally, however, beside the point. I will now bow out, gracefully, from the linguistics discussion altogether, since I've already given my two cents on the origin of Tamrielic.

On a side note, I personally don't see why this discussion is still going on (which is probably why it devolved into an argument over a IRL language) since it's pretty well stated in several sources what Tamrielic is supposed to be.

QUOTE(Wierd @ Apr 8 2008, 06:35 PM)
The relationship here would be more like modern Italian VS classical Latin. (Tamriellic Common VS Aldmeris)

I totally agree with that comparison. :thumbsup:

Also, Old English vs. Moden English. Old English appears to be an alien language on paper, but if you read it aloud, phonetically pronouncing the nonsense words, everyone in the room would swear your speaking modern english with a thick scottish brogue.

Altmeri. As is Imperial custom.

How on earth is that beside the point, you were arguing that English is a latin language and that is completely false, It is not a latin language. Your statement was completely wrong and ignorant, and now you are saying that it is beside the point simply because you were wrong in your initial assesment?

Sure there are latin influnces, french being the strongest, but the basic gramar the basic every day words are still more or less Germanic. To draw a parallel, it makes as much sense as to say that england is an arabic nation simply because there are a big number of for example arabs in there. (You may change the etnical group to any you may so desire).

Had it not been for the fact that the UK and the US are two completely different nations both would be seen as two different dialects at best not as two language, heck in sweden there are dialects that sound and have gramar further away from standard swedish than for example norwegian still it is considered dialects. and the only reason for that the three scandinavian languages are seen as different languages is because of political reasons. The same with the US and the UK. So your argument is completely lacking anything of value to support your original statment that english is a Latin language.

Saying that English being a Romance language is wrong. But, that really is beside the point. He's saying like Latin, Aldmeris is a language that has gained prestige in Tamrielic continent, particularly in the Imperial Province. In turn, this greatly affected the common speech of the Empire because it was derived from it. If Aldmeris and Tamrielic were actually developed, we expect cognates, similar grammar, similar orthography, similar numerals, etc.

Personally, I like the idea that Aldmeris-based creoles were common in tribal Cyrod with isolated communities speaking different languages while Aldmeris was spoken as the language of royalty and clergy in White-Gold Tower. Tamrielic became more common especially at the time of Reman Dynasty, which is based on the common speech of the Imperial City.

The Imperial Library lists "Middle Tamrielan" as a language, with Tibedetha translating to "Tiber's Day".

That may be something of a common tongue in Middle Tamriel, maybe through Cyrodiil, Imperial Hammerfell, southern Skyrim, and southwest Morrowind?

I say colovian mother [censored]as.

It's talking about a holiday in the extreme north of High Rock, though. Middle may or may not refer to geography. It could also refer to class, as compared to some vulgar tongue or ecclessiastical high speech, or, more likely, age, as with Middle English.

And since we never hear about it again, it might very well be forgotten (by the devs, I mean).

English is more French than it is German, and its grammar is closer to French than it is German. If you do not even think you speak a word of French, if you can speak English, you already have a French vocabulary of over 2000 words. Example: almost every word ending in -able, -ent, -ant, or -ion is exactly the same in French. 75% of the Anglo-Norman words imported in the 12th century are still in use today. French is normally taught earlier in British schools than German because it is considered easier to learn, given the similarities between the languages. Many private schools teach Latin as well, since so many languages (including English) are founded on Latin that to learn Latin is to unlock the key to learning all romantic languages e.g. English, French, Spanish, Italian. If you do not believe that English is a romantic language like French, Spanish and Italian, that is your prerogative - but this statement is taught as fact in the English national curriculum, so it's an awful lot of schoolteachers you are arguing with. I was taught that English is a "Latin-derived" language, in school, when I was 10 years old, and no other teacher contradicted this.

The Germanic aspects of English date back to Anglo-Saxon times and are certainly evident in Chaucer's English of the 12th century - however, due to the invasion of William the Conquerer in 1066, the French language became a dominant cultural influence until "modern English" was developed in the 16th century. This is because the Normans were the aristocracy, so were the ones with the education.

You may possibly argue that American English has aspects of German grammar because you use phrases like "Wanna go eat with me?" which would be incorrect grammar in British English ("go eat" would never be used). British English also has a preference for the -ing form in the present tense.

Because a "classical education" in medieval and Renaissance times involved studying in Latin and Greek, many thousands of Latin and Greek words entered the language. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_and_Latin_roots_in_English)

So English is predominantly based on old versions of French, German, Latin and Greek (in roughly that order) with a surprising number of Indian words (such as "shampoo") being introduced later on.

It has no one single origin.

Drawing this back on topic, I may be misremembering, but I seem to recall that Elven words borrow from each other in this manner, with occupations and integrations having a huge impact on language development in Tamriel.

Aldmeris was spoken in Cyrodiil up until 1E 2813, when "Cyrodiilic" became the language of all legal documents. Cyrodiilic is the ancestor of the modern Tamrielic language of today. (See http://www.imperial-library.info/history/1.shtml)

___TWM

I'm not one to backtalk the moderators, but are you aren't exactly disagreeing with me, so... ummm. Yeah.

I said Germanic, not German, after all.

The French are descendants of "Germanic Tribesmen". They assimilated Latin into their language due to Roman influence, but we're discussing lingual bases, or "Root Languages". I don't care how much a language has been influenced by another, the root stays the same, or it's not the same language. Modern English and Old English share a common ancestor and, therefore, are BOTH Germanic. BOTH.

English is an Anglo-Frisian language. Some people refer to Anglo-Frisian as "Insular Germanic". Either way, English is one of a group of Ingvaeonic West Germanic languages that include Old English, Old Frisian and their descendants.

Because English is an intonation language, it adapts concepts from other languages quickly, allowing one of the most diverse and descriptive vocabularies in the world. This vocabulary is transmitted through the phonetical application of the Latin writing system.

So, to summarize, English is officially Germanic in origin with assimilations that include French via a Latin phonetic writing style.

(I guess that Bachelor's in English paid off, didn't it?)

___TWM

Sho nuff.



I look at English as French-flavored German. Yeah, I know it's a mish-mash of a lot of languages and has strong Latin influences, but what European language wasn't influenced by Latin at some point? I see it like pie.
If you put ice cream on pie, it changes the flavor, but it's still pie, right?

Or... Another anology as to why English isn't a Latin-based language is this...

Think about a dalmation. Even though it's got black on it, it's not a black dog. It's a white dog with black spots.

Or it is a black dog with white fields?

Who knows? It's either this or either that.

Off-topic? Yes.