So long as we still have options to customize our appearance (like clothing over armour) then I don't think it really matters. I mean the way it was in Oblivion, sure you could mix and match cuirass and greaves if you wanted, but then you'd wind up with uglier, less efficient armour The only "loss" here is of aesthetic customization, which I anticipate they're going to make up for somehow.

I really don't think they wold combine the armor like that, but if they did would it really be all that bad? There's still a ton of customization that can be done with crafting and enchanting.

Edit/Slightly off topic: Does anyone know if clothes & armor is confirmed? Under or over?

There's a couple of reasons but I think Enchanting is the main reason why.

I'm still hoping we are just -seeing- and -hearing- things, and infact everything is ok. we still have greaves, Cuirass's, Gauntlets, Boots, and Helms all in seperate peices. I mean look 5 years of Oblivion Im kinda use to the matching boots and gauntlets and all that ok Im good, just please dont let these fears come true. what Oblivion Did + armor customization in Skyrim + pauldrons ect ect, you can't argue against.


and be sane about it.

I'm pretty sure that people who actually wore armor like this didn't wear it piecemeal, slapping various odd pieces on for flavor. If they could afford armor, or even if they made it themselves, I'm pretty sure it was a matching set. I'm also pretty sure that if you walked down a medeival street wearing mix and match armor, you'd at the very least get funny looks and at the very worst get taken in by the guards for questioning because they want to know who you've been offing or stealing from to get your "super-creative" missmatched armor set.

Just saying.

And who are you trying to impress anyway? you really think the people ingame are going to see you and think "wow, look how creative that adventurer is with the daedric cuirass and dwemer greaves, that set up is so chic!"

More likely: "wow, that [censored] musta taken a shot of skooma and then dressed in the dark"

Lies. My Morrowind character, in her elegant skirt, Ebony Mail, Wraithguard, daedric gauntlet, and glass pauldrons, was the talk of the town. All the ladies were trying to copy my style.

That's a good question.

So people mixed and match armor peices for the NPCS?



just saying.

Armor from different sets can still "match"(look good). There were plenty of decent differing combinations in Oblivion.

nope not everyone would get full pieces of armour, paupers and armys low on resorces couldnt affored entire sets of armour so they would use cloths to fill in what they didnt have, or, if they could, would make/buy cheeper pieces of armour to go with what they had (a poor farmer who had to defend his farm agenst bandits, for example, wouldnt be able to get a full suit of armour made of the finest steel he had to stick to what he could affored possibly mixing armours) the majority of anyone who used armour probly had a full set but just clearing that up

i wish they kept greaves in. they had better make up for it with lots and lots of different styles of the same armor.

You can... and you could... and it should be done.

Do have any idea why that is so?

Chainmail! :disguise:

Of course the actual physics them selves will have different numbers in the parameter to make it behave like it is heavy, but same principal

Probably even plates too. though if you were building a cloth physics rig on it.. you'd just build a rig and forget the physics part, ie if you went to try to do physics on the armor, the rig would be complicated to the point that it would move realistically anyway and would never need physics on it. :tongue:

I suspect its because of the way they did robes hoods gloves and shoes and enchant as a skill. I suspect mage clothing offers more enchant slots then heavy armkor does or light armor.. because it has NO armor value whatsoever so it has to be doing SOMETHING else.. either more powerful enchants or more of them... and with only 4 slots for mages .. eveyone else has to be limited too.

Same reasoning as to why you cant block with a shield while using magic....

Skyrim won't have AI like that, either. No game should have AI like that as AI like that would be an exaggerated textbook example of a lack of optimization. Having AI or any part of the gameworld be fully rendered when not in the vicinity is a complete waste of resources for any platform... one so great that only a completely incompetent developer would do such a thing. If Skyrim's AI for any and all NPCs were functioning while the player character was not in the vicinity, then:


1. The game wouldn't run. That would be too demanding. No developers do this.

2. They would need to cut such a useless and ludicrously demanding feature in favor of something that will actually run and is tangible.

3. The developers responsible should sign a life-lasting contract forbidding them from ever optimizing software again.

Glad you're trying to spread this. It gives me hope.

I'm not sure exactly why, though here's a few guesses:

Maybe it's to avoid possible clipping issues with certain armors, which I don't think is really a good reason as if the armor combination I choose has too much clipping for me to be willing to wear it, I'll refrain from doing so myself, I don't need the game to stop m from wearing armor combinations that don't look good while at the same time preventing me from using ones that I might like.

I suppose it could also be to balance clothes better with armor, and to be fair, unarmored characters have always been kind of penalized compared to armored ones, maybe in Skyrim, pants and shirts are still seperate, or at the very least with greaves and pants combined with another slot, characters wearing robes are no longer at a disadvantage (Assuming robes are like in Oblivion, as in taking up the shirt and pants slots.), though if Bethesda wants to make unarmored a viable alternative to wearing armor, I'd say the first step should be bringing back the unarmored skill so unarmored characters actually have a way to defend themselves, not reducing the amount of armor slots available.

Finally, some might say it's to "streamline" the game by simplifying the armor system, but personally, I can't see anyone finding the fact that greaves and cuirasses are seperate to be "too complex" to understand.

Of course, I don't like the choice to merge greaves with cuirasses either (And I still think they got merged with cuirasses, otherwise why change the name to "armor"?) but still, Bethesda obviously did it for a reason, and at the very least, it's still a huge step up from Fallout 3's approach.

If we get clothing layers I won't be as disappointed. If we do not get clothing layers the merging of tops and bottoms would annoy me, however. If we do not get clothing options other than armor at all I will not be pleased at all.

I think the more customization available the better. Heck, let me buy fancier underwear if I want!!

one word!! STREAMLINING :intergalactic:

Could someone please show the positive proof that greaves are not in the game?

There has been a lot of talk, and speculation, I have looked through vids, interview, listened to podcasts, all that crap, but I did not see any proof that there are no greaves in any of it...

Is there something I dont know....or has there been a little bit of an overreaction just because we have not seen any of them yet?

The closest thing to 'proof' I have seen is the inventory vid from E3 that showed the Elven armour pieces...no greaves in there, but certainly no confirmation that it was a full set by any means...

And that Ashley Chen guy saying that you could have helmets, gloves, boots mixed on your character, again no absolute confirmation of no greaves...

Ommission of information is not confirmation of anything.

Ashley said helmets, armor, and boots. He didn't mention the gloves. We only know about gloves due to the video showing the UI.

It's not so much confirmed out than in several instances we have seen "armor" mentioned and not greaves. They are actively dodging the question too until the confirmed details in the fan Q&A which will get answers at an unspecified time.

Thanks for the response.

I wont really form any opinions until solid confirmation is achieved.

I can remember on quite a few of my Oblivion playthroughs that greaves and helmets were the hardest pieces of armour to find either as random loot, or on NPC's....

So, from that experience, and putting that together with the info available, I am leaning towards the demo character just not having come into contact with greaves as yet...whereas he had obviously been in contact with carrots and Nirnroot...

Whoa, whoa, whoa!!!!!

If they did in fact merge them, then... then....

Fable has more customization then The Elder Scrolls.... Oh My God!!!!

People have mentioned clipping before, but one of the reasons clipping might be more of an issue than in Oblivion could be control over body types/fatness/thinness, or maybe races have different body shapes. In these cases, meshes need to be able to stretch in order to accommodate. It's a possibility.

Returning of enchantment capacity for items could fix this, but once again, wishful thinking :sadvaultboy:

im just going to go ahead and say live with it... it doesnt make much difference to me... TES is still TES, this small change is not a game killer it just made smithing all that much more interesting. but ill say this they likly don't have an issue with something as for the fact they had seperate pieces in oblivion and this is a revamped version of that tech, they just prolly made it easier. for all you know it could just show as combind in the smithing interface (asuming ther is an interface for this) so its easyer to make the armor perosnalized maybe they have a set saving system that lets you mix and match and save to edit. it wouldnt be the first game to add an armor save feature.



Edit: typo