What's is the power level of a Deadric Lord as well of an Ae

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 7:06 am

Which begs the question as to why Akatosh would give birth to Alduin in the first place. It would seem that Akatosh contradicts himself because he is the cause of the world's ending and it's salvation. Being that Akatosh is the god of time, it's easy to suppose he knew from the beginning that Alduin would devour the world. So why create the Dragonborn to begin with, if Akatosh created Alduin with the full knowledge that he would destroy the world?

Akatosh and Alduin don't like each other, and I don't think Akatosh created Alduin on purpose. I remember reading something of a conversation between the two, with Akatosh stating something about how the heavens "peeled Alduin" off of Akatosh.
User avatar
Natalie J Webster
 
Posts: 3488
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:35 pm

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 4:00 am

Aldudagga, fight four.
User avatar
Kat Stewart
 
Posts: 3355
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:30 am

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 11:59 am

Which isn't really against what Akatosh stands for either, it's somewhat against Auri-El but that is yet another aspect of the same god.
Ahhh, that makes more since. I did come to the conclusion that Auri-El and Akatosh were the same god, and that the Dragonborn is kinda contrary to the Aldmeri view of Auri-El. I did not however know there was a connection between Lorkan and Akatosh. Are there any texts I could read about the Lorkan/Akatosh connection?

Akatosh and Alduin don't like each other, and I don't think Akatosh created Alduin on purpose. I remember reading something of a conversation between the two, with Akatosh stating something about how the heavens "peeled Alduin" off of Akatosh.
So Alduin wasn't so much created, but rather spliced from Aka's being. Where could I read up on that conversation?
User avatar
Lakyn Ellery
 
Posts: 3447
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:02 pm

Post » Mon May 07, 2012 10:21 pm

Don't have a link for the first question it was mentioned here on the forum some times and it made sense to me. I think it has to do with the Amulet of Kings originally being given to Alessia by Shor which was later replaced by Akatosh and that both Akatosh and Shor have similiar feelings towards humans. Which would make them at least somewhat the same. There could be more to it, but that's my understanding really.

The answer to your second question can be found here Look at part 4.

Edit: URL tag doesn't work www.imperial-library.info/content/seven-fights-aldudagga
User avatar
~Sylvia~
 
Posts: 3474
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:19 am

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 11:54 am

I would assume Dagon would incinerate Alduin, but that dumb little storybook tried to make Alduin scary. I mean look at Dagon's form in OB and look at Alduin. Alduin is a dragon and therefore a physical being. You chop off his head and he dies... at least for a while. Dagon could just take his axe and rend Alduin asunder.

Things used to make so much more sense...
Didn't Alduin kick Dagons ass in a previous Kalpa? lol

But really though wasn't that the story of how Dagon came to be?
User avatar
BethanyRhain
 
Posts: 3434
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:50 am

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 6:59 am

Does Alduin eat all the Aedra and Daedra, and Magna Ge and Aetherius? That's the only way it could really start over.
No I'm pretty sure the Gods/Daedra have learned to avoid the destruction/creation by way of the "Walkabout"
User avatar
Siidney
 
Posts: 3378
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:54 pm

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 10:54 am

Didn't Alduin kick Dagons ass in a previous Kalpa? lol

But really though wasn't that the story of how Dagon came to be?

Yes that was the storybook I was referring to. Personally, I don't believe it. I think Magnus is still a separate entity, and Dagon has just always been. Magnus is likely more powerful than Dagon anyway.
User avatar
IM NOT EASY
 
Posts: 3419
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:48 pm

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 2:39 am

Yes that was the storybook I was referring to. Personally, I don't believe it. I think Magnus is still a separate entity, and Dagon has just always been. Magnus is likely more powerful than Dagon anyway.
I hope your right. I don't like thinking of Magnus as that fallen creature of rage and hate
User avatar
Madison Poo
 
Posts: 3414
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:09 pm

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 9:55 am

What evidence actually exists that Magnus and the Leaper Demon King are the same entity?
User avatar
liz barnes
 
Posts: 3387
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:10 am

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 3:28 am

I understand the creation of Mundus from the interation of Order and Chaos. Please elaborate more about Akatosh. Being the head of the pantheon, is he somehow closer to the godhead? Alduin causing a new Kalpa by devouring multiplicity, and the duality which gave rise to them, makes since. It's the Dragonborn which remains a mystery to me. Does not the Dragonborn prevent the regeneration of the oneness of the cosmos? So how is the Dragonborn a manifestation of the Godhead, if the Dragonborn preserves multiplicity?

The dragonborn doesn't necessarily preserve multiplicity. He devours fragments of Akatosh as voraciously as Alduin absorbs fragments of Shor. In theory, whichever of the two kills the other will also absorb him, making the biggest lump of Akatosh/Shor that's existed for a very long time, perhaps since the creation. It's possible Alduin is "supposed" to beat the Dragonborn and take his accumulated power, which is what finally transitions him from Alduin-Tyrant to Alduin-World-Eater, and that perhaps this is the first Kalpa in which that hasn't happened, and we're in uncharted waters. It's possible that the Dragonborn himself is now Alduin-World-Eater, and he'll transform off-screen like the CoC transforms off-screen into Sheogorath. It's possible that Alduin's proximity to Sovngarde during the last battle means that Shor absorbs Alduin instead (Alduin's death animation makes it appear his god-goo is being ejected into the sky, not being absorbed by the Dragonborn) which would mean... ?
User avatar
Jack Bryan
 
Posts: 3449
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 2:31 am

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 5:53 am

What evidence actually exists that Magnus and the Leaper Demon King are the same entity?

Taken from fight one:

And the Leaper Demon King saw a possible way out of this mess for himself but he nodded too eagerly, saying "Yes, yes, yes! Yes!" and the dragon knew that any mercy he might give to this little demon would not result in any true learning. So he cursed the king of the leapers, calling him Dagon, saying:
"The Greedy Man has already f*cked himself up good, hiding inside something that didn't exist anymore, but you: you I curse right here and right now! I take away your ability to jump and jump and jump and doom you to [the void] where you will not be able to leave except for auspicious days long between one and another and even so only through hard, hard work. And it will be this way, my little corner cutter, until you have destroyed all that in the world which you have stolen from earlier kalpas, which is to say probably never at all!"


http://www.imperial-library.info/content/seven-fights-aldudagga

That's the only source I can think of, there might be more.
User avatar
Sheila Esmailka
 
Posts: 3404
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:31 am

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 1:52 pm

Taken from fight one:

And the Leaper Demon King saw a possible way out of this mess for himself but he nodded too eagerly, saying "Yes, yes, yes! Yes!" and the dragon knew that any mercy he might give to this little demon would not result in any true learning. So he cursed the king of the leapers, calling him Dagon, saying:
"The Greedy Man has already f*cked himself up good, hiding inside something that didn't exist anymore, but you: you I curse right here and right now! I take away your ability to jump and jump and jump and doom you to [the void] where you will not be able to leave except for auspicious days long between one and another and even so only through hard, hard work. And it will be this way, my little corner cutter, until you have destroyed all that in the world which you have stolen from earlier kalpas, which is to say probably never at all!"


http://www.imperial-library.info/content/seven-fights-aldudagga

That's the only source I can think of, there might be more.

I like the part where Alduin roars and says "YOU STUPID LITTLE F*CKER"

I laughed so hard when i first read that.
User avatar
Kelvin Diaz
 
Posts: 3214
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 5:16 pm

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 4:59 am

Taken from fight one:

And the Leaper Demon King saw a possible way out of this mess for himself but he nodded too eagerly, saying "Yes, yes, yes! Yes!" and the dragon knew that any mercy he might give to this little demon would not result in any true learning. So he cursed the king of the leapers, calling him Dagon, saying:
"The Greedy Man has already f*cked himself up good, hiding inside something that didn't exist anymore, but you: you I curse right here and right now! I take away your ability to jump and jump and jump and doom you to [the void] where you will not be able to leave except for auspicious days long between one and another and even so only through hard, hard work. And it will be this way, my little corner cutter, until you have destroyed all that in the world which you have stolen from earlier kalpas, which is to say probably never at all!"


http://www.imperial-library.info/content/seven-fights-aldudagga

That's the only source I can think of, there might be more.

Yeah I know of that, but I found it hard to linke Leaper Demon King to Magnus. The only conection I can see is that Magnus "leapt" into Aetherius, but I find that a stretch.
User avatar
Emma Louise Adams
 
Posts: 3527
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:15 pm

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 11:59 am

It's a combination of the 'leaping' of Magnus and myth-matching. If the Greedy Man is Shor, and Ald is Ald, then that leaves.... Also, Magnar has fallen and was replaced by mirrors (the chrome device)
User avatar
Mandy Muir
 
Posts: 3307
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:38 pm

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 12:07 am

It's a combination of the 'leaping' of Magnus and myth-matching. If the Greedy Man is Shor, and Ald is Ald, then that leaves.... Also, Magnar has fallen and was replaced by mirrors (the chrome device)

Ok I understand the connection between Magnus and the Leaper-Demon King, but that leaves the question as to why Magnus would want to help the greedy man to hide pieces of creation so they would not be eaten, and later stick them back in the craziest of places.
I thought the whole point of the architect was that he left the Mundus for Aetherius, why would he be involved in it for any reason?
Also, I dont think the characters match.
I just dont get that 'majestic architect of the world who refused to go through with it once the costs spiraled out of control' vibe from this a-bit-silly Leaper-Demon.

Im not saying it aint so, but its a head-scratcher.
User avatar
Nick Swan
 
Posts: 3511
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:34 pm

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 9:21 am

Everyone in Nord myths is a bit silly. And I'm starting to doubt the Magnus fled to Aetherius story. Shor son of Shor claims that "Magnar has fallen," and was replaced by "mirrors". Then MK's new stuff makes reference to.a Chrome Device. Something's fishy (hah, Fight Four reference).
User avatar
Hannah Whitlock
 
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:21 am

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 8:52 am

Taken from fight one:

And the Leaper Demon King saw a possible way out of this mess for himself but he nodded too eagerly, saying "Yes, yes, yes! Yes!" and the dragon knew that any mercy he might give to this little demon would not result in any true learning. So he cursed the king of the leapers, calling him Dagon, saying:
"The Greedy Man has already f*cked himself up good, hiding inside something that didn't exist anymore, but you: you I curse right here and right now! I take away your ability to jump and jump and jump and doom you to [the void] where you will not be able to leave except for auspicious days long between one and another and even so only through hard, hard work. And it will be this way, my little corner cutter, until you have destroyed all that in the world which you have stolen from earlier kalpas, which is to say probably never at all!"


http://www.imperial-library.info/content/seven-fights-aldudagga

That's the only source I can think of, there might be more.
Magnus isn't the only et'Ada that had a habit of escaping ("leaping") to Aetherius. Don't forget all the others that created the stars.
User avatar
Eilidh Brian
 
Posts: 3504
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:45 am

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 8:09 am

Are Akatosh/Lorkhan/Magnus a Warrior/Thief/Mage trinity?
User avatar
Wane Peters
 
Posts: 3359
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:34 pm

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 1:34 pm

Are Akatosh/Lorkhan/Magnus a Warrior/Thief/Mage trinity?

Oo excellent!
I never thought of it that way, but it makes sense.
Aka = warrior, Lorkhan = thief, Magnus = mage.
User avatar
casey macmillan
 
Posts: 3474
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:37 pm

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 7:26 am

Oo excellent!
I never thought of it that way, but it makes sense.
Aka = warrior, Lorkhan = thief, Magnus = mage.
Unless you go by the Nords, then it's Ald = thief, Shor = warrior, Magnus = mage. Though I'm not sure if Magnus is recognized by the Nordic pantheon.
User avatar
stevie trent
 
Posts: 3460
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:33 pm

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 7:09 am

Magnus and other leapers dont seem to be recognized very much. Nobody seems to worship them and they don't have shrines or blessings. You'd think more mages would worship magnus instead of that one aedra (julianos?), if of coursee magnus is still a magna ge and not a red devil.
User avatar
Markie Mark
 
Posts: 3420
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:24 am

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 1:00 am


Unless you go by the Nords, then it's Ald = thief, Shor = warrior, Magnus = mage. Though I'm not sure if Magnus is recognized by the Nordic pantheon.
The warrior and the thief trade places due to the nature of the rebel/king enantiomorph.
User avatar
Solène We
 
Posts: 3470
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:04 am

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 2:21 am

The warrior and the thief trade places due to the nature of the rebel/king enantiomorph.

Thats really interesting because I was thinking they trade places because of the interconnectedness of space and time.
It is both, I think.
Really fun how I had never realised this before and now its like Ive found a whole new layer.
:tes:
User avatar
dell
 
Posts: 3452
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:58 am

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 10:03 am

In the Skyrim loading screen it says "The Oblivion Crisis was caused at the end of the 3rd era by Mehrunes Dagon, who tried to enter Mundus in his tru, and terrible form". That's off the top of my head, but it implies that Dagon either tried to merge his realm into mundus or that he actually has a true, satanic form (for his avatars?). But the Daedra didn't always have realms, so maybe that's how he looked before he made a realm.

Skyrim definitely complicated things... more.
A: Yeah, Dagon had just that perfect combination of time and placement that, when the Towers started to fail, he could pop in and say hi himself. His form is that of the ultimate destroyer both literally and symbolically, with the red and the horns.

As for Skyrim complicating things, not really. It's only even close to Morrowind complexity when taken as part of the greater series instead of on its own, and most of the big ideas were present in some form already, like Aldiun being Akatosh's son despite being an aspect of Time and therefore partways to being Akatosh at the minimum.

Magnus and other leapers dont seem to be recognized very much. Nobody seems to worship them and they don't have shrines or blessings. You'd think more mages would worship magnus instead of that one aedra (julianos?), if of coursee magnus is still a magna ge and not a red devil.
Magnus and the ges have no stake in Mundus, therefore are always constant with or without worship, and would likely ignore it even so.
User avatar
Queen Bitch
 
Posts: 3312
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:43 pm

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 8:54 am

I would assume Dagon would incinerate Alduin, but that dumb little storybook tried to make Alduin scary. I mean look at Dagon's form in OB and look at Alduin. Alduin is a dragon and therefore a physical being. You chop off his head and he dies... at least for a while. Dagon could just take his axe and rend Alduin asunder.

Things used to make so much more sense...

Noooope. Not unless Dagon had the power of dragonrend.
User avatar
Laura Wilson
 
Posts: 3445
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:57 pm

PreviousNext

Return to The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion