lol

well, we already know that the DT system is not come back, so lets see how they manage this new system in FO4.

someone few posts behind remember Oblivion. Oh god..........no, Bethesda would not commit that mistake again.

anyway, I'm glad that mods is coming to consoles. I guess.......It depends on the goodwill of the moders.

The problem is it's not a new system. It's the same flawed system they've been using for quite some time now. 80% DR is far too high. As I said, the scene showing the power armor vs. deathclaw fight could be a terrible example of what kind of battles we can expect to see: miniguns tickling deathclaws because Bethesda thinks more HP = harder, and deathclaws that can only scratch you for a tenth of your health.

I don't even know if they think it's supposed to be hard or if, much like the promised "you can slay Dragons!" of Skyrim they intend it to be an epic showdown that ends up being tiresome.

80% DR is indeed too high, in Skyrim hitting the armor cap effectively meant nothing could kill you unless you let it. But perhaps the DR cap is smaller in this game? Also, I know in FO3 there was a global damage multiplier, raising it would increase damage from all attacks across the board. It wouldn't be the same as a DT based system of course but raising it greatly would go a long way towards avoiding tickling match combat.

By that logic the 80% resist cap on DT is too high.

Hell, in Oblivion and Fallout 3 it was 85%, they actuallyl owered it to 80% in Skyrim, making it match up more with DT.

Don't know what game you played TBH, but in Skyrim, even with max armor, and 50% magicka resit, a legendary dragons fire/frost breath can easily take away 50% of my 400+ HP in one hit, and thier bite attacks can take away like 1/4 of my HP.

Its really not that hard to die.

Hell, one of the biggest complaints about Fo3 was that things like Overlords did too mcuh damage, even with 85% damage resist.

I honestly wonder if you have played these games at all.

So it'll need a FWE, Project Nevada or jswayer mod. Big surprise

Except DT caps out at a level that still makes most things dangerous, the way they should be.

It wasn't the DT system that "destroyed the usefulness of power armor", it was the enemies in New Vegas. Very few enemies in New Vegas used good, or even decent equipment. The major enemies, turned out to either be guys in retrofitted sports gear wielding machetes, or grunts in lower-mid grade armor with assault rifles in poor condition. Well equipped NPCs were rare. The only ones that really had any capacity to threaten you, were BoS patrols (if you pissed them off), or NCR Hit Squads (Heavy Trooper in Salvaged Power Armor with a Minigun and a NCR Veteran Ranger with a Ranger Sequoia, Brush Gun or AMR).

At higher levels, i could walk around the Mojave Wasteland and just annihilate pretty much anything/anyone i came across. With TTW though, in the Capital Wasteland i often times found myself running for cover trying to buy myself time for stimpack healing because i had ran into a Super Mutant group with Miniguns and Missile Launchers, or into an Enclave squad, whom always wore Power Armor and used high end energy weapons in good condition that hit hard enough to be a serious threat to me, even when i wore Power Armor.

Weren't you the one constantly saying that most enemies should logically become negligible like they logically should be once you get PA?

Which is it?

That is because they logically shouldn't.

After a war, 99% of people should be using just whatever junk weapon they found, since manufacturing is gone, no new good guns are being made.

No, just low-level enemies. Also, most animals. Cazadores, for example, should not be a threat to power armor.

No, my point is that game's should logically become easy/easier if you actually follower their progression systems, and if you want to make the game harder, don't min/max.

What Broken Steel did you play? Because one of the most common complaints of Broken Steel is that Overlords did so much damage that no amount of armor of armor was enough, and that they could easily kill you.

Part of what killed my motivation to replay NV was how badly the armor system was designed, there was no point in replaying it to try new things, as all things ended up playing exactly the same due to how broken DT was. There was never any real sense of progression in getting better armor, All of the possible weapon/armor combinations were rendered entirely superficial ones.

And armors already do that in a DR system.

Light armor

Pros

-Weighs less, taking up less inventory space.

-Doesn't reduce movement speed.

-Doesn't make a lot of noise, making sneaking easy.

-Easier to repair, as its easier to find items to repair it with and it costs less to repair.

-Fast stamina regen.

Cons

-Doesn't resist a lot of damage.

Heavy armor

Pros

-Resists a lot of damage

Cons

-weighs a lot more, taking up lots of inventory space.

-Reduced movement speed.

-Makes a lot of noise, making sneaking difficult.

-Hard to repair, as replacement items are rarer, and merchants charge a lot more to repair it.

-Lower stamina regen.

This is the system of stat tradeoffs that every decently balanced game uses. All DT does is remove the one con light armor has to make it objectively the best in all situations. DR actually makes its useful over heavy armor in many situations.

Not really, for the reasons I listed above, light armor offers significant bonuses over heavy armor, regardless of not having the best defense rating. Your examples are flawed because they try to reduce armor to nothing more then a damage resistance item, when they are used for far more things then that.

Whats more, is that your comparisons to Skyrim are flawed because you keep trying to compare orcish armor, a heavy armor, to other heavy armors, such as Daedric/Dragon, and then say Orcish doesn't offer any unique stats.... it wouldn't, because they are both the same kind of armor. This is true in NV as well, where Enclave PA is objectively the best heavy armor in the game, and far outclasses all other heavy armors. You keep shifting between an argument of "light vs heavy" in NV, to one of "heavy vs heavy" in Skyrim, and then keep trying to equate the two as being the same.... they are not.

I've never heard anyone say not leveling is a good strategy in Skyrim, in Oblivion that was true, because of the poo level scaling, but not in Skyrim.

And no medium armor is worthless, its always a worst of both world situation of nothing but cons.

-Can't offer the damage negation of heavy armor.

-Can't offer the movement freedom of light armor.

-Can't offer the sneakyness of light armor.

-Can't offer the stamina regen bonuses of light armor.

etc. etc. Medium armor is just this weird middle-ground where it does nothing well, and thus s made largely unusable for anyone playing a specialized play style.

Except how they use said mechanic is vastly different, and that is what matters.

Skyrim's DLC monsters fit into the next logical stop of scaling progression, and give said enemies armor and visuals that make their slightly stronger nature logical. Many people barely even noticed the new kinds of Falmer added in Dawnguard, because they fit so well into the established leveling curve that their increased power was only barely noticeable as they just FIT into the rest of the game. The new kinds of enemies all ft into the logic of the base game, making the whole experience far less noticeable "gamey" as one typically gets in end-game DLC.

Fallout 3 and NV's DLC don't do that, they just throw in vastly stronger monsters that break the natural level scaling curve of the base games in favor of ULTRA STRONK! enemies. Which is why we get idiotic stuff in NV like marked men being 10X stronger then a base game NPC wearing the same kind of armor, and ghost people with almost as much HP as deathclaws. And how Fallout 3 has the infamously powerful and hard to kill Albino Radscorpions, Super Mutant Overlords, and Feral Ghouls Reavers, and why Swamp Folk were as strong as super mutants. None of it makes sense, it was just poor scaling for the sake of throwing bullet sponges with high damage at you for the typical MMO style "end-game" experience.

Fo3 and NV were just artificial difficulty, Skyrim actually tended to keep all its enemies HP, armor, and weapons consistent with logic between the base game and DLC, making the world far more narrative cohesive.

I have no problem with difficulty in my games, I have a problem with difficulty that only arises from illogical artificial damage and HP bloats. and no, Skyrim's DR doesn't make you killable, that's been proven objectively false so many times by now I don't see why you keep saying it.

Except it isn't changing the argument at all. Making heavy armor takes less more to die from something =/= immunity from that something. I honestly don't know where you are getting such absurd comparisons from. You are aware there are more stats in armor systems between "everything does everything the same" and "one makes you 100% immune"?

So you are saying that highly advanced PA which is designed to resist mostly everything can resist mostly everything, but still make you killable?

Plenty of RPGs from BG to FF. Many monsters use TACTICS that make those 11 hits basically unavoidable the first time you fight it, requiring the player to actually have to think about how to fight it next time. It requires far more thought then "walkling along, get shot, instantly die, reload"

I see more of a problem in everything just killing you in one/two hits. If the only way a game can kill you is by making everything kill you in one hit, and faster then people can normally spin around and find the enemy shooting at them, you typically have a poorly designed game on your hands. Getting 5 and a half shots off with something in 60DR power armor with an AMR isn't exactly slow either, you can do that in less then 30 seconds. Good games kill the player through enemies using complex strategies, not by making everything just kill you in one or two hits.

No, not at all, because an NPC can fire the AMR at the same speed you can, you can get two shoots off in less time then it takes for someone to turn around and react to it. Its the difference between "you die instantly" or "you die before you can really do anything". Which really isn't a noticeable difference at all.

What AMR are you using? it fires fairly quickly, you can get several shots off before an enemy can even react to it, and they are usually dead by then. Especially if you are using the AMr as a sniper weapon like its meant to be used, and you are far outside their attack range.

Its because it isn't smoke and mirrors, its the same % based system most game use because it works. All the problems you just listed off are problems of overpowered companion perks, which should be removed, and and overabundance of healing items such as stimpacks, which should be greatly reduced. You are trying to shove poor balancing in other areas onto the armor system, and blaming the armor system for those things. all of your comparisons are flawed or fallacious.

Your idea of difficulty is the same a "reloader" games like Dark Souls, where the game is only challenging because everything can kill you in 1-2 hits, thus forcing you to reload and play the same content over and over until you manage not to get hit. That doesn't require a lot of thinking or skill, just boring tedious reloading.

True difficulty comes from enemy groups using multiple kinds of weapons that cover all the various weapon categories, and complex tactics that make killing all of them, before they can get all the shots they need to kill you off, difficult. Not from enemies simply being able to kill you in one/two hits with any decent weapon. DR allows the former, DT is simply the latter.

If your idea of a challenging game is one where you're never forced to reload or avoid a fight, then your idea of challenge is not the same as mine.

I never suggested thier of those things.

I only said that combat should not be focused around reloading every fight, not that you should never have to reload at all.

Have you played NV? Fallout 1?

Yes, and? The NCR isn't even 1% of the post-war world m8.

There is a reason why Avellone wanted to nuke everything, development of culture becoming too great.

DR does not force weapons to be used in specialized situations whatsoever. That was what DT did.

With the DT system, shooting a standard 12 Gauge Shotgun Shell (7 projectiles at 11.52 damage each) from a Riot Shotgun (80.64 damage due to the 20% damage modifier from standard 12 gauge shells) at a Giant Radscorpion (18 DT), would result in each pellet doing 2 damage, for 14 total damage. Shooting a 12 Gauge Slug (one projectile) from a Riot Shotgun (67 damage) at a Giant Radscorpion (18 DT) would result in 49 total damage, more than 3x the amount of damage of the standard 12 Gauge Shotgun Shell. However, the 12 Gauge Shotgun Shell did 20% more damage against targets with 0 DT.

Now, under the DR system. Shooting a 12 Gauge Shotgun Shell (7 projectiles at 11.52 damage each) from a Riot Shotgun (80.64 damage due to the 20% damage modifier from standard 12 gauge shells) at a Giant Radscorpion (let's say 80% DR), would result in 16 total damage. Shooting a 12 Gauge Slug (one projectile) from a Riot Shotgun (67 damage) at a Giant Radscorpion (80% DR) would result in 13 damage. There really would never be any need to switch to the Slug, since raw DPS would always win.

So you say there's no manufacturing and everyone should be using junk weapons. Even though that's just incorrect.

Now you say that there's too much development?

I said weapons, not ammo m8.

It was a generalization of 99% of the post-war world.

and no, what part of "Avellone wanted" eluded you?

Two things right away and then I'll respond to your wall-of-text (cuz eating):

1) I actually made https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddtqyVeolb0 to showcase how easy Skyrim is. This is not my first discussion where I criticized and lambasted the DR system. The video is basically because the Skyrim forums wished to claim that Legendary difficulty was super hard and that I only criticized DR because I played on easy mode or something. The gameplay footage is in Legendary difficulty. The weapon is Skyforge steel with max smithing, and as I recall I either purposefully used it instead of dragonbone because they requested something of the sort (saying it was only easy cause I min-maxed everything) or I didn't have Dawnguard at the time.

So yeah, forgive me if I find your claims that it's very plausible to die absolutely laughable. That character was played fully in Legendary mode and technically survived Dead-is-dead, I just got bored to death myself and never finished it.

2) Overlords bypassed DR entirely. That's how they were so threatening. Do you not see how there might be a serious problem with difficulty when Bethesda's solution to complaints about the game being too easy is to resort to letting the damned thing bypass all the defenses you worked hard to build up? It wasn't a popular idea...obviously, cause it rendered your stats you earned meaningless and resulted in TOO much difficulty. AMRs and Deathclaws? One fires slow as hell and the other has to run quite a distance before it starts eating you, so those two can get away with two shotting you. Overlords? They could two-shot you with rapid-fire tri-beam laser rifles. The result was you quickly aimed for the weapon to disarm them and pray it worked, cause if it didn't, you died.

IT'S ALMOST AS IF THEY COULD'VE AVOIDED THAT ENTIRELY BY NOT MAKING DEFENSES SO RIDICULOUSLY STRONG IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! GEE, I WONDER IF THERE'S MORE TO THIS LITTLE IDEA OF MINE...

Damn.

People be mad.

1. That video is laughably bad for various reasons not limited too, but including

--Lack of consistency in testing environment.

--Going against only a singular enemy of ineradicably low level, and complaining that the game is too easy(laughably one of his basic arrows still managed to take out 1/5 of your HP, imagine if you had actually fought a typical bandit swarm of 4 or 5 archers, each shooting you at the same time), not to mention facing two or three Draugr deathlords with ebony arrows.

--When going against more difficult enemies you do nothing but constantly spam interrupts, and use a companion who takes most of the agro away from you, resulting in you not actually getting hti ever, which makes comparisons of how much damage you take flawed.

Basically, that video is just a landslide or very select situations that dont reflect normal gameplay

2. That is a problem, one they fixed in Skyrim.

3. Or they could just low HP a tad, and not spam the world with so many healing items......

...are we having fun yet?

No, it was made in reference to the enemies in NV, not "99% of the post war world".

Are you Todd Howard by any chance?

You're arguing exactly what I pointed out in the video: the game wants me to help it kill me. This is made even more hilarious by the fact that you, not one page ago, argued the player should use everything at their disposal. Here I'm doing exactly that: I'm using every skill I can to stay alive. It's stupidly easy when I do. What, are you saying I SHOULDN'T shield bash him and instead neglect such mechanics to try and get myself killed? Yeah ok, that would sure be "challenging...."


As for multiple opponents, it's the same story: you can back off with your shield up until you have all of them on the same side of you. The AI doesn't know what flanking is, so they'll all fall in line exactly as you want them to. Aside from that, I purposefully went to the most crowded, "challenging" locations I knew of. I don't know of another location for example that reliably spawns Draugr Deathlords and dragons at the same time. If you watch my health during the video though, you'd know how to handle it: avoid melee range of the dragon, guard against the draugr, then tank the ice blast magic with health potions. Ta-da, you win.

Tell you what: name me some locations in Skyrim with tons of challenging enemies in big groups, and I'll go make a new video for you (if I can, been over a year since I loaded the game), complete with solo play (no companions, which btw I honestly brought along just to speed things up) and whatever locations and enemies you request. All of this on legendary difficulty with the same character. Sound fun?

Honestly I'm not sure anymore...