The system in New Vegas was almost perfect. Damage Threshold intercepted incoming damage; anything which exceeded it would be reduced by a Damage Resistance percentage. The only flaw was that you added bleedthrough to make sure every hit produced damage.

Now I see that the armors only have DR again, like this is Fallout 3, and even Power Armor is letting HP damage through? Why have you done this? What is this pathological obsession with crippling armor? It's not lore-friendly, it's not conducive to good gameplay; it's just laziness. Do the DR numbers actually mean anything, by the way, or is the invisible cap still going to be 85% with the real value of "resistance" a complete non-factor?

Please do not keep this terrible armor system in the final version of the game. Implement damage threshold with no bleedthrough. I beg you.

NV system wasn't anywhere near perfect, so was FO3. The original Fallout system was perfect, picking any of DT/DR is insufficient, they need to be in together. Both simulate different aspects of stopping and mitigating damage and they both need to be in. Bethesda should awaken already and admit their TES combat systems don't work in Fallout.

New Flash!!! This is Bethesda's Fallout now, not your beloved Black Isle, and it most certainly isn't Obsidian either. They can work damage in whatever manner they choose. You ain't gotta like it, but you're gonna have to accept that you can't change it, only they can.

Okay, that said, you should at least try playing the game before you pass judgement, because TBPH, we don't know enough about anything to say much of anything regarding FO4 until Beth gives us more information...which they will do in good time.

DT with no bleedthrough would be terrible, as it would allow you to easily make yourself totally immune to most forms of damage fairly early on, utterly destroying game balance.

Whats more, DT was it was in NV was also fairly bad, for two reasons

1. When it comes to low level weapons like the 10mm pistol, DT allows you to easily max out the damage negation fairly quickly, and makes getting better armor worthless as you can never drop below that 20% bleedthrough cap. In NV, Enclave power armor was literally only as effective as blocking a 10mm pistol as vault security armor was, which is bad. Fallout 3's % based DR system does not have this problem.

2. When it comes to high damage weapons, like the AMR, getting more armor is also basically pointless, as it can never offer enough to reduce it in any noticeable way. At the absolute maximum HP one can botain in the base game, with perks or chem boosts, Enclave power armor can only let you survive like .6 more of an AMR shot then something like Sierra Madre security armor can. And again, Fallout 3's % based Dr system does not have this problem.

DT doesn't have any sort of logical curve of armor progression, and it makes getting more armor absolutely worthless against 2/3rds of the weapons in the game. DT simply doesn't work, even Sawyer admitted it doesn't work when he gave medium and heavy armors in NV DR in his mod, because without them, they were totally useless as deflecting more damage.

DR on the other hand has a curve, manages to make heavy armor offer far more protection again high level attacks then light armor does, and manages to prevent you from maxing out damage resistance against low level weapons(which most NPCs have) early only, keeping the game balanced longer.

If anything cripples armor, its DT. Ditch it, or only keep it for a few additional points of damage removal after DR is applied.

Oh, I still want DR. I want them to add DT on top of it.

You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can never please all the people all the time...

I can't think of a reason you wouldn't want to make Power Armor immune to anything smaller than a .44 magnum.

New Vegas' system needed a bit of tweaking (OK, quite a lot...), but even in its vanilla form it was miles better than any of Bethesda's games. Military-grade combat armor should severely mitigate small caliber weapons fire. Power armor should stop anything shy of anti-materiel weapons. Clothing should do exactly jack and squat against either of those weapons.

Personally, I'd prefer a mixed system, where DR is used to represent toughness (like the Toughness perk or certain chems) and DT is used to represent physical damage mitigation (like armor). That's what mods are for, I suppose.

DT with no bleed through and DR after that check is really how it should be. Power armor should be almost unstoppable, not be able to be nickel and dimed by a guy with a tire iron.

Actually read and comprehend before flaming in a misguided, irrelevant way. People are talking about how the game can be bettered, it's not a matter of old or new.

We already played FO3 and NV, the new numbers are Skyrim numbers which work like Oblivion and FO3 percentages but with a formula that can have inflating numbers to deceive people that they did a big upgrade when it's 2-3%. It's not rocket science.

Actually, DT should be applied before DR, that was how it is back in the first games. Power armor had enough DT to shrug off small arms but got some damage from high-tech weaponry. Otherwise you end up with Dead State's "everybody immortal at endgame including enemies" slugfests since HP increases a lot in FO. They had to change the order to FO formula later on in a remaster of that game.

But then again, how skills and crafting work in Bethesda's latest games mean that you have that 10DMG pistol turning into a 100DMG pistol at endgame so it makes balancing a nightmare.

The point of armor is to make yourself immune to small arms fire. What... why would you not recognize this? Something like a hunting rifle would still be able to defeat anything but Power Armor; it's just about being able to ignore trash enemies who only exist to annoy you and deplete your stimpaks. You're thinking completely backwards. High-power equipment should be able to penetrate. What should not happen is for someone in a mechanized fully enclosed steel box to be bitten to death by Molerats, which can now happen.

Why can't they have mixed-weaponry groups again? It would make sense for most people to only have pistols on them, with some riflemen and heavy weapon operators hanging around in case you try something, especially important people. Most NPCs SHOULDN'T be able to harm you without high-level weaponry.

No, the point of armor is to greatly reduce damage taken, not to make one totally immune to something. Absolutely no game, beyond very poorly balanced ones, ever lets you become totally immune to any damage source, regardless of your total armor level. This is basic game design 101, and is used to prevent the player from becoming too powerful as to make the gameplay trivial... why would you not recognize this?

Even NV lacked total immunity, and let the player be killed by molerats while in PA, given enough hits. This is how is should be. PA should make it take a VERY long time time to be killed by molerats, but you should still be able to die from them, or else you run into a situation where 90% of the gameworld, which would logically use poor weaponry, would be unable to stand against you. Its a similar situation to the terrible problem in Fallout 2, were you can get PA in like the first hour, and steamroll through the game with zero problems because of how poorly balanced the game is.

Total immunity to any source of damage is stupid, for what should be obvious reasons, and those reasons are why no game lets you do so unless the devs don't care at all about any sort of challenge. Even Bethesda at their lowest has higher standards then that.

THIS ISN'T A GAME! THIS IS REAL LIFE!

Best response NA 10/10-IGN.

Seriously though both sides have their merits, however ill have to side with game-play over realism.

As you should be in that armor. It is absolutely insane that anyone can be killed by a BB gun in FO3 while wearing power armor; and doubly so now that they actually did the appearance of it right in FO4. There should be [should always be] situations where a given weapon doesn't work well enough to defeat the opponent, and a different weapon ~or tactic has to be employed.

In practice and I replay FO:NV in deep now, last time I rushed found myself borred by fallout after FO3+ all expansions

DT made me go for the heavy hitting weapons, That is just ignore it but go for weapons with high single hit damage combined with decent dps.

Now add that the game handles weapons pretty unrealistic because of game balance, its an reason why all armies today uses assault rifles. Now its some chance they will move to larger calibers in the future as good combat armor become more common.

In FO:NV machine pistols firing pistol rounds fit the sweet spot between bullet damage and dps, now this is the kind of stuff normal police body armor stop real life, same with shotguns, if you want to stop rifle ammunition you will need ceramic plates as in heavy body armor.

I wonder what the DR values in FO4 actually mean. I hope it's not just the Skyrim armor system.

In fact, based on the power armor video we saw, that might be the case this time. Small arms didn't even move the HP gauge (no bleed through even) of PA but deathclaw attacks took out like half of the HP each time. So if it's not altered for demoing purposes, they might have even made those numbers we saw DT or something similar to it.

I always preferred the DT system better because high grade armours should be able to block just about everything. I mean what the heck is a standard 9mm round going to do to any sort of power armour? It'd be like shooting a tank.

However, there should be ways to bypass the DT with things like armour piercing ammo. Maybe attacks that attack the DT itself like some sort of acid or plasma attack, I guess that would reduce the durability of the armour and thus the DT as the durability dropped.

"Streamlining." Gotta keep things simple for the filthy casuals.

No, they did. He lost about 2% of his HP during the slaughter of the raiders.

Yes I wish DT will be in the game too. Conventional pistols and assault rifles should not be able to deal any damage to someone inside a power armor, isn't that the whole point of wearing power armors?

Someone mentioned game balance. First, I don't understand why people are so concern about balance in a single player game. Second, you still need to worry about high tech weapons.

could've been jumping off a tall ass building that did that (plus I didn't see what they were using to shoot him)

To be fair, we only seen the term, not how it works, just because its called Damage Restience doesnt automatically means it works the same as the one in 3.