What type of combat would you like to see in Fool? And what would you hope that they avoid?

To bring up some examples:
I hate Fallen Earths way of combat, it depends too much of the players skill and we all know that MMOs lag from time to time. I ended up spending the first weeks in melee only because I wasn't able to hit anything due to lag. Also, the level\experience\skills of your character doesn't play a part because it's all about the leet cs geeks and their ultra quick reactions that win battles. Not a fan.

I like Anarchy Onlines way of handling combat, lag doesn't affect it and it's more of a equipment\skill based system. A bit of a minus for having the possibility to do 50 meter melee kills, but melee players also need to have a chance against ranged.

Combat in the first Fo games was awesome, but we all know that turn based does not work in an MMO. I personally believe that a variation of the FoT system would be the best in an MMO, it does use action points (although it would be for attack actions only in an MMO) and it's real time. To solve the aim system (I refuse to call it VATS), you could be able to pick out where on the body and on who to aim in real time, but you do not shoot\attack manually, it all depends on your action points and other skills. Aim percentage and hit percentage is also automatic and depends on your skills.
This would be a fair system both for the ADHD kids and us a bit older who want to enjoy a video game

If they'd want to make the game true to Fallout 1 and 2, make it overhead and use the Ultima Online system. I myself think it works wonders, but it is an old game, and with some refinement it could be great. On the other hand I really like the "over-the-shoulder" view of most MMO's right now. The WASD running makes key-binding easy, and gives a really smooth experience in combat.
I agree completly with your opinion on "skill-based" combat, it just makes the game look stupid where everyone jumps around doing the same attack over and over.

Do something similar to matrix online, that was imo the best combat system in any mmo.

Its turn based but just watch some gameplay and you will understand.

like in coming soon W40k online, i will play on that game until FALLOUT ONLINE ALFA/BETA comes. First gamesas must put in game - "non target system". Second PVP must be part of the game but low lvl gamers must be protected from PK (closed zones, NPC guardians ect...). Third - i want to make same quest by 5-6 ways as in original game!:
for example - you gain quest for bring some food to "X named" NPC - 1. Kill some rat and cooked it, than give that meat. 2. Just go to town and buy some. 3. I'm not the "stupid boy" - kill quest giver or/and NPC who finished quest (poison meat or put the C4 in ). 4. leave him die (X named dont eat any too long). 5. pay some else for make that... and ect. Its will be realy cool

I agree that the turn-based tactical approach to FO 1&2 is what made the game truly immersible. How to bridge the real-time PvP action with the tactical advantages of the original turn-based, statistically driven combat engine is the challenge.

I think that Action Points and a characters statistics should have more impact on the outcome of a combat situation than the players ability to execute keyboard/mouse inputs faster than their opponent. Obviously, the tactical player can still be overcome by a lucky Red Ryder strike to the eyes and multiple dogs...just like in real life.

I truly enjoyed watching a battle unfold from the top down as was the case with the originals. I wouldn't be against watching a battle unfold by seeing what the other players do with their action points cinema style.

How does the time in the game work though when say, all players can enter or initiate this frozen time, semi turned based combat movie scenario? I dunno, I mean combat can happen anywhere and at anytime in the wasteland and the game needs to reflect this..... Because we can all snap when we realize those ba$tard kids stole our last 10 rounds of 10mm AP on our way into/out of the store.

How does the time in the game work though when say, all players can enter or initiate this frozen time, semi turned based combat movie scenario? I dunno,

Well, I suppose technically it can be achieved through running combats within separate instances that would be created specifically for each combat. Then you can do whatever you want with it, even classical turn-based combat (which I can only dream of!). In real-life situation I really doubt that it would work because in my understanding that would put an enormous strain on game servers. Or maybe not? I somehow have a feeling that a lot of that strain can be taken off by implementing some sort of P2P technology when not only servers but also clients would be responsible for the calculations. Does it make any sense at all or am I talking rubbish?

FPS or TPS is for me the best, after years of MMO where combat leaves you sit on your fat butt and let the character do the job it′s time to turn 180 and let the players own skills win a fight, Fallout combat has always been about gunplay and games with guns always works best with the live action you get from a FPS or a TPS.

Combat should be based on a system of stats over player skill. FPS wouldn't work due to lag. As far as a V.A.T.S. system for it to work the whole game indoor and outdoor would have to be instanced and thats alot of server space to be running unlimited amount of areas. I think a realtime turn based combat system would be the way to go, sort of like final fantasy has at the moment. V.A.T.S. could be achieved by a scroll over target system so you don't have to open up a sub system.

I have to say the combat in the new MMO All Points Bulletin is really interesting and fun when I tested it.

"Z"

The most recent game in the franchise had a pretty decent way of incorporating skills and statistics into a FPS form of combat. Essentially, a characters skill in whatever melee weapon would increase their accuracy with that weapon when they tried to shoot/ slash at a ghoul or whatever. What this would translate to in FPS talk is when you have crosshair on target with your submachine gun and your mashing that fire key, if you as the player have a 30% in small arms, then that is your base chance of the bullet going where the crosshair is. Modifiers like distance and size of target, player movement and what-not could all modify that base chance of bullet strike. In the first person view it would simply look like the bullet whizzed past the target if the randomizer didn't fall in that "successful" range. As for bandwidth, a lot of MMO's use a client based processing system rather than a server based one. Essentially, all the functional game data is on the players computer, and all the servers have to really do is coordinate the traffic between client computers. This helps cut back on lag and allows very fast paced action without causing the huge lag delays seen on some games. Even as heavy on action as a game such as Fallout may be, it doesn't begin to compare to the gazillions of calculations needed for the bullet play in any given first person shooter, and they all do just fine with multiplayer matches of 32 people all in the same field of combat shooting and jumping and running amok. So long as enough thought goes into the server management I don't foresee anything that would really prevent plenty of wasteland warfare

ah, ye. APB is really fun, and its simple but still very fun, no massive spell system, no massive gear selection (but there is clothe customization but it doesnt do anything to give you extra armor ). I think APB got great gameplay and it works just fine with it, I dont feel that there is a deep story in the game, but I dont mind, the death is kinda massively unrealistic but I dont mind because its just fun to play

I'm not saying that there should be any purebread adoption from APB but as I have said earlier on some threads: Looking at other MMO's and take use of what they have done is crucial to making a good new game, I think that there are things to learned from APB.

I still don′t see why players should be lazy and hand over skill to the character like any other MMO, about time MMO steps up the pace and starts putting players skill to the test. I can see how a system like FF11 abd other such works for a fantasy setting where melee is the primary way of fighting, but this is a modern post apoc setting with guns, I can′t see how you keep a immersive effect of combat being fast paced and in the players hands if you stick to the old left click, hit auto attack system we seen in almost every MMO.

Heres what I think:
Fast paced combat is all great and amusing for FPS lovers (which are usually age 15 tops, which is not a bad thing at all!), but IMHO it contradicts with the very spirit and the original concept of the Fallouts (and I mean THE Fallouts, not a pitiful imitation by Bethesda). The original games were never fast paced, always giving you enough time to think and act accordingly, relying on player's thinking, not primitive WSAD skills. Loosing tactical part completely will automatically loose a great deal of potential clients: those of us who love the original games. And, without the army of fans of the original series, Fallout is just a word, meaning the residual radiation hazard from a nuclear explosion (wiki). I know for sure that I'm not paying for something called Fallout, without it being close enough to the original, no more.
To summarize: for me personally, a game must be an amusemant for a mind in the first place. In no way it should be turning into work, when you're forced to waste time on training your fingers to press the right buttons at an immense speed. The original games were perfect in that sense: amusing, funny, cynical AND intellectual, and I'd love it to stay that way.
I rest my case

As previously stated, please don't bad mouth other companies or their products.

The spirit of the Fallout universe is not tied to the combat system. Also, the other systems were turn based, thus the slow method you refer to. MMOs for obvious reasons are not. ;] So I am sorry but the combat will have to be different.

APB is not twitch gaming. When you group with players who know what they are doing, it is very tactical, and yes it is fast paced. I believe the point, click, autoattack is losing power. Sure there should be something that is hybrid of the system. Even the point, click, autoattack MMOs are changing their formats to keep at the top. WoW (hear I know... ) has went through many changes to their system. It is quite a different game from when it was Vanilla WoW. Even with auto attack you have to be quick to the click of spells and abilities. You have to act and react swiftly if you are to survive.

Just to go on record, I absolutely hate FPS games, however I liked APBs system.

For PVE, maybe it can be more relaxed and allow for the point, click, autoattack. I hope the main combat system is not this dull.

I'm reluctant to say that combat never was fallout 1/2:s strong side, it was slow and it was kinda easy and cheesy at many points. If they are to use the old fallout combat system (wich I hope not because turnbased mmo in my opinion would be very slow, maybe add the option to only be able to have turn based in pve) they should rework it a bit, hopefully turn it more into fallout tactics that was more about gameplay than story.

I detest FPS as a style of game play, so I'm basically hoping this game isn't going to be generic fps.

I'm not entirely picky. I'm not a console fan so I play primarily on the PC. But I'd use my keyboard if need be. It doesn't have to be turn based. Like the OP said, that's just impractical in this situation.

I agree with the others in that I'd like to see strategy used here. Weapons/armors/skills should be important. This shouldn't be about how fast we can click.

One of the reasons I loved FO1 and FO2 so much, was the atmosphere and the environment. I'm eager to see that come back in this game. and explosions. I'm eager for those too.

Actually, the two part about the first three FO's that I liked the most was actually the combat, and character development. Sure FO1 and 2 had a really good story (I think FOT had a decent story to though), and the diverse way's you could solve your missions etc was awesome. But it is the combat system and character development in FO1/2/T that keeps me coming back for more. That is probably the reason why everytime I have started a new game in either FO1 or FO2, I have start 5-10 New Game's in Tactics. Tactics is the only one of the FO games that I replay atleast 1-3 times a year, where as FO1/2 probably gets one replay every 2-4 years.

I really like turnbased combat combined with full character development. For me it started back in 1996 with regular (Swedish) pen and paper RPG's, where even though I really liked the roleplaying aspect of it, it was the combat and character development that I liked the most and found the most interesting. Then my love for turnbased gameplay (plus character development), outside of pnp rpg's, came on the PS1 back in 1997 with Final Fantasy VII (granted, you don't have that much controll over the character development in those games). And for PC it was roughly around 1998-99 that it started for me, by watching a friend, and then later me, playing "X-COM: UFO - Enemy Unknown". It was roughly around 2000 that I came across Fallout, and instantly fell for the combat system and character development of that game.

Turnbased combat can work in an mmo. Have a look at Atlantica Online for example, where they use turnbased for both PvE and PvP. The combat in Atlantica Online feels very Final Fantasy like, which works really well for me. They do have a turn timelimit though, which increases slightly for each npc party member you have (your char + 8 more as max). With 9 characters, each turn has a 30 second timelimit, and if you have not used all your characters within your timelimit the turn ends. The way Atlantica Online deals with partying with other people, is that you can go 3 players (with up to 9 characters in each player group) vs up to 3 groups of enemys with up to 9 npc in each group.

Granted, the Fallout styled turnbased combat would probably be a bit slower, which a huge amount of gamers these days seem to have a problam with. And I think it would lose some of it's tactical thinking if you had a to short timelimit. But I would personaly love to see FOOL be turnbased... although, I doubt it will be. Unfortunatly these days the kind of games that do best are the quickpaced twitch based ones. Which for me usualy only gives me enjoyment for the 10'ish hours they last, befor they are permanently confined to the shelf, to most likely never be played again.

Turnbased combat, character developing, and simmilarly slower paced games tend to not sell as well as the twitchbased ones, which is unfortunate... since those are the kinds of games I really love and enjoy to play. I guess that is why you see all these hybrids around which claims rpg, but usualy is very lite in the rpg department. For example, as much as I love the Mass Effect games, the character development of thoser games are extreamly lite in rpg terms. I would have LOVED to see Mass Effect with the character development of a pen and paper rpg (like Fallout has). That was why I loved Fallout so much, because it felt like I was playing a pen and paper RPG in pretty much all apects, and that is something I miss very much so in most (if not all) of todays games.

Trust me with todays network communication programs like Skype and internet the best way to get a pen and paper rpg feeling....is to simply play a PnP game over the net. I for example hope to get some free time soon and see if I can recruit some players for some PnP gaming over Skype.

I have never tried that actually, pnp rpg'ing over skype.

I have simmed online though, most recently on some ICQ based pnp rpg's based on D6 Star Wars rpg. Not really my prefered IP though. Or more precisely, not my prefered game systems (don't like the various D&D systems that are available, or level based systems). The PnP rpg's, and systems, I prefer to play, are all in Swedish.

I guess that is the only thing I would change about Fallouts systems, to make it a skillbased system, rather then a level based system.

Unfortunatly, the kind of skillbased system I would want does not naturaly work well on console/pc games... for example, the skillbased systems I play and love (again, all Swedish), does not increase your HP, your HP stays the same all the time. Unless you manage to raise the attributes connected to how much HP you have, which is not that easy to do in these games I play, and the difference would not be more then 1 extra HP. I would also like for each of your body parts (head, chest, stomach/lower body area, each arm and leg) to have their own amount of HP, based on your total HP. So if your arm went down to 0HP or less it would be unusable. But again, these kinds of skillbased systems don't work well on console/pc games.

I have never tried that actually, pnp rpg'ing over skype.

I have simmed online though, most recently on some ICQ based pnp rpg's based on D6 Star Wars rpg. Not really my prefered IP though. Or more precisely, not my prefered game systems (don't like the various D&D systems that are available, or level based systems). The PnP rpg's, and systems, I prefer to play, are all in Swedish.

I guess that is the only thing I would change about Fallouts systems, to make it a skillbased system, rather then a level based system.

Unfortunatly, the kind of skillbased system I would want does not naturaly work well on console/pc games... for example, the skillbased systems I play and love (again, all Swedish), does not increase your HP, your HP stays the same all the time. Unless you manage to raise the attributes connected to how much HP you have, which is not that easy to do in these games I play, and the difference would not be more then 1 extra HP. I would also like for each of your body parts (head, chest, stomach/lower body area, each arm and leg) to have their own amount of HP, based on your total HP. So if your arm went down to 0HP or less it would be unusable. But again, these kinds of skillbased systems don't work well on console/pc games.

as a fellow Swede I′m curious what game that it...sounds familiar.