How about just no arbitrary insta-kills at all? Otherwise, stealth combat's still a crapshoot. Just sneak attacks that deal massive damage based on the character's sneak skill are needed.

The problem with trying to use the Theif model... I don't think Garrik's skill increases as the game progresses, leaving everything up to the player. With that sort of mechanism, the entire stealth game becomes like Oblivion's lockpicking game. I'd really not like having a Heavily Armored Warrior with 5 points in Sneak able to outperform a steath specialist played by an uncoordinated player.

Well ANY stealth system besides Oblivions.. Oblivions was crappy imo.
In Oblivion if you killed a Guard with a stealth attack, no matter what, a guard will always find out it was you, or just come after you straight away.
I want something else in Skyrim, Oblivions stealth system annoyed me alot.

Sounds like a frustrating experience since you will never know which enemy is too strong for you. Your level 5 character tries to instant kill enemies all the time but all he gets is a broken sword all the time. Big fun. Until your character is super strong anyway sneak attacks would be useless. Instant kills don't work in RPGs where characters have different levels and health values. Unless it would be an instant kill anyway due to the amount of health removed by the sneak attack.



So a luck based sneak system? If I'm lucky I can kill Umbra without any effort at level 1 and if I'm not I'll reload and try again? Doesn't sound right to me.

No offense, but the super cool looking Assassin's Creed style stealth kills are something for action games. In a RPG the 'cool' effect would destroy the balance and would make any skill values useless. Otherwise you could do the same for melee combat (a 'power move' at the right time and you split your enemies skull) or bows (an arrow shot at the right body part and your target gets pinned to a wall). Certainly a 'wow' effect, but it only works in 'wow' action games.

All i'm saying is something apart from the Oblivion styled stealth system, it got too repetitive and annoying, anything besides it would be great.

I'm hoping for a unique system for Skyrim

You could one shot kill Umbra with a strong enough stealth damage multiplier as well...

The thing should be,what makes those certain NPC's strong?

He holds the artifact sword so he must be a boss...Too game-ish @_@

Yeah,it is a game but the more you are able to hide such things,the better it is. If he's some random guy who's taken hold of the sword than I see nothing against head-shooting him.If he's a skilled warrior who slays every single foe he faces,he should be able to detect you or somehow avoid being shot.(Sensing presence and running for example? Or maybe he would be the one to sneak upon you when you enter his area?

I said Oblivion and I checked Thief. I think that it is unrealistic to aim for the hights of theif and Splintercell since stealth is only 1 part of an Elder Scrolls game and it is the whole part of those games but their is likely a few things that could be implemented to improve the Game, wall climbing, entering through windows, and the ability to knock an npc unconcious and drag them away silently would add a lot

I think it could be cool to have special animations play out when doing a stealth attack.
I think the whole point of the extra damage in Oblivion was that being unseen would allow the attacker more time to pinpoint vital points on an enemies body.

I voted for Oblivion and Thief btw.
I think aspects of Thief could be brought over in to Skyrim and that would be a good thing.
In Fallout 3/New Vegas sneaking seems kind of weak to me but there are man made light sources there.
Still, the way shadow falls on your character in Fallout could replace the idea of a light gem like in thief.
When in dark shadow you wouldn't be able to make out any detail or color of the items in your hands or on your arms.
That could indicate the level of hiddenness.

I love stealth Chars. they are always my first play threw. I have dreamed of A new TES game that would improve their Stealth play level. However this will not be possible till they bring back climbing from daggerfall. True Stealth game play cant be achived till you can climb to avoid or ambush someone. Also you cant ever implement total stealth game play too A rpg. Your skill will be < mobs detechtion and their for the abilty too say hidden 100% even without mistake should be impossible. Aslo when you add in Undead / supernatural / Vampires Awareness, total stealth gameplay should be unlikely at best.

However this what I would love too see.

1. Climbing (skill + str VS what material + your total weight )

2. A perception
All NON-supernatural / NON-Undead Mobs have Field of vision cone, Ea with its own range & how dark they could see in. ( humans 40 feet in lit, and max of 10 in dark , 1 in pitch black ) / (Dogs 60 feet in lit & Dark / pitch black ) (If you are in their cone the check would be, Size + light - sneak skill VS their set feild of viston range )

3. Awareness
All NON-supernatural / NON-Undead Mobs have sphere of Awareness. This would always be active but lowerd if sleeping. (If your sound check + Armor modifer - sneak < Awareness = no reponse) Again A dogs would be higer. Now if A dog hears you it barks ... if the bark is insde the NPC huamn awareness it would alert him and he could yell and alert others ect ect. Now this would also need too add A sound check to items base off size & material. (ex. I am awake I hear you bump into something , or open a chest , why I am asleep i would not inless it is right next too me.

4. Total Awareness
Supernatural / undead they dont see you .. they cant hear you ... they just know you are their .. they should have a Awareness sphere, if you are ever in it at any point .. they know. iness you have somthing magicl to say otherwise.

5. the abilty too change the light source in the room ... threw putting out any fire/torch or use of spells

I love being stealthy in ESV. I vote Killzone/ Splintercell style. I would love to kill someone and drag the body.

Haven't played killzone or splintercell, so I'll go with Thief, however perhaps a slightly bigger focus on assinations, seeing as we'll be using it to kill people more often than you did in Thief

I think the vision cones need to be larger... as in "If you can see them, they can see you" size (Assuming both parties have equal lighting).

But it really needs a way to handle hiding without shadows. Otherwise, hiding would be useless against every single member of an entire race in the games.

On that second note... the lighting system should accomodate Pupil Dialation to aid in seeing in the dark... with Khajiit getting a significantly broader range of light/dark compensation

It should be impossible to sneak past a khajiit unless your character is khajiit as well. Stealth is totally great but the skill should not get to the point where you are NEVER detected. For that you need invisibility potions or camouflage spells.

Also the goal for many Thief players was to complete an entire mission WITHOUT hitting/killing anyone and be completely undetected during the mission.
Of course it was also lots of fun knocking everyone out, but the point was that you were a thief not a murderer.
Skyrim, as we all keep saying, is a completely different game with the concept of leveling up and gaining greater skills as you go through the game not really appropriate for a stealthy thief.
A thief doesn't wear armor or carry heavy weapons and is unlikely to become a hero and save the world.
A thief is just that - a thief, small, sneaky, cowardly and will run away at the first sign of trouble, definitely not the uber warrior with 500 lbs of armor and a two handed great sword that Skyrim will most likely need.

These are exactly my thoughts, As i've said it about a million times before, anything besides the oblivion styled stealth.

I'll have to go with Thief style stealth, since those games are amazing (can't wait for Thief 4), but allowing for the flexibility we are looking for in a TES game. For example, if I wanted to go noncombat and purely stealth/control I could do that, while if I wanted to be more of an assassin/ambusher I could do that just as easily.

Edit: Aren't the Splinter Cell games 3rd person? The poll specifically asks about what you want stealth to be like in first person, so I found the inclusion of Splinter Cell a bit odd given the poll's name, but I realize the changes from third person to first person would be made easily and are therefor understood.

Thief 2: The Metal Age is pretty much one of the top 10 games of all time IMO.

I'd want that system but modified a bit so when you backstab someone you actually go into an animation if the victim is a human.

Sierra's Quest for Glory Adventure/RPG series completely disproves your second point. Stealth should allow nonconventional solutions to the problems. Making 1/3rd of all viable character concepts useless Because you don't see them as heroic is the absolute wrong way to go about it. The Scoundrel uses an array of non-combat skills to achieve his goals.

I think any game with a Fighter/Thief/Mage triumvirate needs to look at Quest For Glory and adventure games for Stealth/cunning-based solutions.

^This. I can only dream of an Elder Scrolls where I can stealthily come up behind an enemy, cover the enemies mouth, and with a dagger or sword, cut their throat silently. Or stab in the back, or (as depicted on page 50 of Game Informer, which may actually be a finisher and not a stealth move), turn them around and stab them in some random area. I will be an extremely happy guy if this happens.