What if Vivec never surrendered to empire? : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Mon May 07, 2012 10:21 pm

What if vivec never gave tiber septim the numidium? Would morrowind be able to push back the imperial legions? or would it still get conquered?

» Mon May 07, 2012 4:22 pm

It would've still been conquered.

» Mon May 07, 2012 3:19 pm

geez save the spoilers for the thread, not the title. I don't even want to meet Vivec now.

» Mon May 07, 2012 8:25 pm

Alinor falls to Akulakhan and we all succumb to dreaming in Ur's blight-sleep.

» Mon May 07, 2012 9:07 pm

geez save the spoilers for the thread, not the title. I don't even want to meet Vivec now.

This happened a long timeago when Morrowind surrendered to Septim, but also got to keep their own slavery laws and Tribunal religion intact

» Mon May 07, 2012 7:39 pm

It would have gotten very, very nasty for both sides, and Wulfharth would have Been quite pleased

» Mon May 07, 2012 1:00 pm

The Elder Scrolls.

Vivec.

» Mon May 07, 2012 10:44 pm

Vivec would not have refused. The Padomaics recognized the Tiber as one of their own, and helped him. Septim didn't even need to set foot in Black Marsh, and I'm sure the war with the Dunmer was exaggerated for narrative effect (the source of this information is a text blatantly fictional even in-setting).

» Mon May 07, 2012 7:47 pm

Either the Empire or Dagoth Ur would have won and conquered Morrowind from the Tribunal and then after that Dagoth Ur would have won.

» Mon May 07, 2012 4:34 pm

Vivec had his [censored] handed to him by mortal Imperialists of the Reman dynasty at the Four Score War. What chance did he stand against the Empire AND Talos?

» Mon May 07, 2012 6:51 pm

Vivec had his [censored] handed to him by mortal Imperialists of the Reman dynasty at the Four Score War. What chance did he stand against the Empire AND Talos?

Handed to him? He lost one mayor battle in 80 years of war, a battle that would not decide the fate of the conflict, it was just that all sides were tired of fighting and presumably that the demands made by the Reman Empire weren't all that bad...

» Tue May 08, 2012 12:09 am

Handed to him? He lost one mayor battle in 80 years of war, a battle that would not decide the fate of the conflict, it was just that all sides were tired of fighting and presumably that the demands made by the Reman Empire weren't all that bad...

Yeah, the Aldmeris also didn't actually win. And their terms were most acceptable, as the Empire didn't like all that Talos worship anyway.

Losers always have the most impregnable excuses. Too bad they weren't impregnable on the field of battle.

» Tue May 08, 2012 3:04 am

What if vivec never gave tiber septim the numidium? Would morrowind be able to push back the imperial legions? or would it still get conquered?

If there had been no Numidium trade then Vivec wouldn't have killed Tiber Septim. Ultimately Vivec could have done anything he liked, hell she once taught all of Morrowind to waterbreath to repel the Akaviris. So yeah they probably could have repelled the Legion if Vehk decided to bend the rules.

» Mon May 07, 2012 9:10 pm

What if vivec never gave tiber septim the numidium? Would morrowind be able to push back the imperial legions? or would it still get conquered?

'Conquered' isn't really a good word. There was an armstice; Vivec gave Tiber what he wanted so he'd go away. He might have been able to push back the legions, but at great cost to his people, and Vivec is still a benevolant god on the whole - he's not gonna make his people fight when he can just bribe the enemy into leaving.

Had Vivec prevailed, perhaps we'd have seen the next kalpa a little sooner.

» Mon May 07, 2012 12:32 pm

Yeah, the Aldmeris also didn't actually win. And their terms were most acceptable, as the Empire didn't like all that Talos worship anyway.

Losers always have the most impregnable excuses. Too bad they weren't impregnable on the field of battle.

Big difference as Morrowind became part of the Empire and could concentrate instead entirely on Dagoth Ur and the threat there... They still kept their own laws and customs and could do most of what they did before. The Empire made a very different deal. Not every peace treaty signals the same thing. Regardless Vivec thought Dagoth Ur was a greater threat and did not want to fight on two fronts, that's why he made his decision.

» Mon May 07, 2012 2:01 pm

Vivec would've worn a mask and made the empire himself, then retired back to MW and let some random kid claim to be his son. Vivec gave the robot to Tiber because he wanted Tiber to win and make the empire, not because he was afraid of getting beaten up.

» Mon May 07, 2012 11:02 pm

Vivec thought Dagoth Ur was a greater threat and did not want to fight on two fronts, that's why he made his decision.

Four Score War: 1E 2840 - 1E 2920
Dagoth Ur awakening: 2E.

Reman is a mortal, with mortal-only generals, who thrashed Vivec, the ALMSIVI and the entire Dunmer nation on the field of battle, without Vivec having the excuse of Dagoth Ur eating his homework.

» Tue May 08, 2012 2:29 am

Reman is a mortal, with mortal-only generals, who thrashed Vivec, the ALMSIVI and the entire Dunmer nation on the field of battle, without Vivec having the excuse of Dagoth Ur eating his homework.

Don't believe the talk that Talos was un-anticipated. Both Perrif and The Cyrodiil heralded his coming.

» Mon May 07, 2012 11:38 pm

Don't believe the talk that Talos was un-anticipated. Both Perrif and The Cyrodiil heralded his coming.

Hmm. Perrif had the terminator, Talos had stompy. Why didn't Reman get a robot echo-buddy?

» Mon May 07, 2012 8:43 pm

Four Score War: 1E 2840 - 1E 2920
Dagoth Ur awakening: 2E.

Reman is a mortal, with mortal-only generals, who thrashed Vivec, the ALMSIVI and the entire Dunmer nation on the field of battle, without Vivec having the excuse of Dagoth Ur eating his homework.

I was talking about the deal with Tiber Septim... Not the deal with the Reman Empire...

Also Vivec lost a fortress because of bad intelligence, he did not lose a single battle in the 2920 books. After 80 years Morrowind was still busy defending her borders, they never expanded into Cyrodiil or wanted too, meaning that in 80 years of battle the Empire had managed to actually win ONE whole fortress... By tricking Vivec, arguably that's more impressive then beating him on the battlefield, but don't make it sound like he got trashed constantly. Because that simply isn't true.

» Mon May 07, 2012 12:50 pm

Hmm. Perrif had the terminator, Talos had stompy. Why didn't Reman get a robot echo-buddy?

Because he was born a god. Perrif and Septim started as mortals and used god-/constructs to ascend, in part at least. Reman's father was gaianaught and his mother, Nirn.

» Mon May 07, 2012 8:10 pm

Don't believe the talk that Talos was un-anticipated. Both Perrif and The Cyrodiil heralded his coming.

Anticipated in the sense it refers to with Talos is regarding the fact that he isn't just a new version of the last kalpa's gods, as with the rest of the divines. Talos breaks the mold.

» Mon May 07, 2012 4:53 pm

Anticipated in the sense it refers to with Talos is regarding the fact that he isn't just a new version of the last kalpa's gods, as with the rest of the divines. Talos breaks the mold.

So does he count as the one special difference?

» Mon May 07, 2012 1:58 pm

So does he count as the one special difference?

Aren't the Tribunal members the difference, seeing as they "replaced" their anticipations before they should have?

» Mon May 07, 2012 4:44 pm

meaning that in 80 years of battle the Empire had managed to actually win ONE whole fortress...

Well, at least at some point mournhold was sacked (the real barenziah), so I wouldn't say the empire was totally unsuccessfull for all of these years. Though beside that, and what was described in 2920, we know nothing about the overall course of the war... open to speculations.